Afraid I'm Apostate

[confused22]

Hi Everyone!

I'm afraid I am apostate! Even though I read my Bible, read apologetics books, pray, etc... I have this horrible fear that I'm apostate, and that God will never restore me. You see, I've had doubts that Christ actually existed, and I've had doubts about God existing. I feel totally hopeless right now. Not to mention, I have clinical depression.

I SO badly want to believe in Jesus. I so badly want to let go of this silly notion of thinking He didn't exist. These thoughts came from nowhere. I just don't want to be like the person in Hebrews 6. I truly want to spend eternity in heaven, and I am so scared God isn't going to let me. I come from a Calvinist background, and I have been told I would be apostate if I wasn't trying to pursue God. But, I think of God and Jesus every single day. I am seeking counseling from a Christian psychologist and psychiatrist. The thought that Christ didn't exist is a totally UNWANTED thought. Please give me advice!!!!:help:

[moonglow]

You aren't. The fact you are worried about it proves you aren't...

Those that become apostate are the ones that want to be...

Depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain which can affect our thinking. Getting on a good antidepressant can help that.

John the Baptist even questioned if Jesus was the one...we all go through what you are from time to time. You keep praying and stay here with us..that will help alot and we will pray with you...:hug: You could be experiencing spiritual oppression by the unwanted thoughts also. We also all go through that. You can rebuke those thoughts in the Name of Jesus. It works!


God bless

[jponb]

Totally agree with moonglow on all points. I can tell from your post that you know that God and Jesus both exist. You said "had" and not "have". God gave us so much evidence of His existence with the sun, stars, moons, etc...etc... Jesus has done the same with the Holy Spirit, disciples, bible, etc. etc... As for the doubt, even Peter doubted when he was actually walking with the Savior. Keep growing in grace and in knowledge of Him by allowing the Holy Spirit to lead you into all truths.

[faroutinmt]

Spiritual forces of wickedness can easily whisper blasphemies into your ear and tell you it was you. Don't condemn yourself for these thoughts. They are strategies of the enemy to discourage you, condemn you, and persuade you to give up hope in God's salvation for you.

Faith involves believing against what you feel and what your thoughts tell you.

Don't be persuaded by the lies which tell you that there is no hope for you. God is for you. :)

[confused22]

Totally agree with moonglow on all points. I can tell from your post that you know that God and Jesus both exist. You said "had" and not "have". God gave us so much evidence of His existence with the sun, stars, moons, etc...etc... Jesus has done the same with the Holy Spirit, disciples, bible, etc. etc... As for the doubt, even Peter doubted when he was actually walking with the Savior. Keep growing in grace and in knowledge of Him by allowing the Holy Spirit to lead you into all truths.

I think I should have said "have," but I'll tell you this - I know that it's ultimately illogical and foolishness. Right now, I have an inability to really see the beauty of the world, because of my depression (which is chemical in nature, and I'm getting that worked out). I'm also talking to my psychologist about the issues I mentioned above, since he is a Christian. Please pray that I will not be double minded, and that I will not let these thoughts keep me from worshiping and pursuing the Lord.

[Literalist-Luke]

The word “apostasy” is based on a Greek word that signifies a willful separation, like a divorce. It has nothing to do with degrees of faith. Think of it this way: In a marriage, you don’t go around talking about whether or not you’re only a little married or if you’re completely married. You either are or you aren’t. Period. But then if one day you decide to end the marriage, you are now divorced. There is no middle ground – you either are or you aren’t. That’s what Paul was talking about. So your concern is based, not on whether or not your faith is “strong enough”, but rather on a faulty understanding of the concept of “apostasy”.

Let’s talk about that specifically and then after that we’re going to talk about your faith. When Paul spoke in 2 Thessalonians 2 about the “apostasy” or the “falling away” (depending on your translation), he was speaking of a specific event. Notice the usage: “THE falling away” (or “THE apostasy”). We’re not just talking about a general concept here – Paul is speaking of a very specific occurrence that was yet future when he wrote it (and it still is future as of right now). Now, what, precisely, that occurrence turns out to be depends on how you interpret Bible prophecy. I have some very specific ideas about it that I won’t waste your time with right now, but suffice to say that at some point in the future, there will apparently be large numbers of so-called “Christians” who will turn their back on their beliefs and will choose a different belief system. They will willfully reject the atoning sacrifice of Jesus as the means of receiving eternal security. THAT is “apostasy”, not simply having a new faith that has not had a chance to grow to maturity yet. (And it sounds to me like you’re just struggling with a young faith that hadn’t matured, but that will happen with time.)

So unless you’re going around deciding that you’re done with Christianity and you don’t want to have anything more to do with it, then you have nothing to worry about as far as “apostasy” goes. You have not “divorced” yourself from your Lord Jesus, so you are still “married” to Him.

Now, we do need to talk about your faith, however. Your concerns are very understandable. Some of the things you have expressed here are very similar to many thoughts that I used to have a number of years ago and that many believers go through when they’re first starting to really explore their faith/beliefs. The most important thing to know is that it is absolutely normal.

Let’s discuss the specific points you brought up. You said that you have doubts about whether or not Jesus really existed. I would suggest that is not true. What you have a problem with is merely having a concept of Him having been here on the earth, not whether or not He really existed. Do you believe that if you travel to the north pole that you’ll discover a lot of snow and ice? Of course you do. But have you been there to see it with your own eyes? I’d bet not. But you’ll protest that you’ve seen pictures and movies of the north pole. Really? You were told they were pictures and movies of the north pole – but how do you know they weren’t lying to you and actually showing you the south pole? I know, I know, that’s ridiculous to seriously suggest, but my point is that you are taking those photos/movies and your belief in the existence of the north pole on faith. You’ve never been there yourself, so you have to conclude that the evidence you have been presented with is convincing enough to accept on faith that the north pole is real.

The same can be true of Jesus. Is the evidence convincing enough? Have you really checked into it? Personally, I have done a great deal of historical research and digging around and have been able to satisfy myself that the historical record contained in the Bible is absolutely trustworthy. But I didn’t just accept it blindly. I was actually very skeptical at one time. But after investigating the evidence, I became convinced that the message we find in the Bible is worthy of placing my faith in it. The more I investigate, the more the Bible is confirmed, and the more my faith in grows.

So if you have doubts about whether or not Jesus really existed, a little research on your part would probably be a big help. If you’ll go into the “Apologetics” forum here on this site and post a thread expressing your doubts and asking believers in there for some websites you can go to that will help with this area, you should receive a number of excellent answers.

Now, as for Hebrews 6, that does not apply to you. The book of Hebrews was addressed to Jewish believers who were giving into pressure from their Jewish friends/family to revert to the Mosaic Law. The point of Hebrews 6 was that once Jesus’ sacrifice was offered, to continue offering sacrifices on top of that is pointless and expresses a non-faith in Jesus’ sacrifice. You are not guilty of that, so you do not need to fear Hebrews 6.

I don’t know a whole lot about “Calvinism” and certainly don’t know anything about the specific sect of it that you are coming out of, but I do know this: When Jesus spoke of the father of the prodigal child watching the road for him to come back, he didn’t tell that story for warm fuzzies. Your Father in heaven was watching for you to come down that road, and when you said “Yes” to the gift that Jesus offered you on that cross, that was the moment you walked out of the pig pen and headed down to the road to your Father’s front door. That father did not walk up to the prodigal and look him over while he decided whether or not to claim him. He ran up to him and took him in his arms, pig smell and everything, and immediately proclaimed to the world that “My child is here!” Such is the case with you and your Father.

Now, as for your faith growing, that will take time and experience. As you read the Bible and learn to see the world around you with a Biblical mindset, your whole concept of reality will change. The only problem is that it takes time. You’re not going to immediately have the faith of somebody who’s been through a whole lifetime of experiencing God in their life. But it will get there. In the meantime, here’s something to think about.

I assume you admitted when you accepted Jesus’ death as the payment for your sins that you have no way of getting to heaven without that death and God’s resulting mercy. So here’s what I’m getting at. God has accepted your payment. The transaction has been completed. Your obligation is taken care of. All the responsibility is now squarely on God’s shoulders, not yours.

Think of it this way: If you and a friend walk into a clothing store and you need $200 worth of clothing, but you don’t have the $200, then there’s nothing that can be done for you. But what if you go up to the checkout and your friend whips out their credit/debit card and they pay for it? Would the clerk have any right to keep your newly purchased clothes from you? Of course not. The bill of sale has been paid. You now have the right to walk out of the store with those clothes.

It’s the same with your salvation. Jesus has paid your debt to our Father. The transaction has been completed. The only thing you need to do is just pick up the sack with the clothes inside and head out the door. Right now, you’re doubting if you have a right to take the sack with you. But I assure you, the cashier is not standing there trying to stop you, and neither is your Father. The cashier would be standing there wondering what’s the holdup, why doesn’t this person take the sack? So give yourself permission to take the sack that has been lawfully and completely paid for and head out the door with a smile on your face.

Your debt has been paid. The reservation has been made. The ticket is being held out to you. All you have to do is just get aboard and enjoy the flight. And at the end of the flight, you’re Father will be waiting to welcome you home with fatted calf steak waiting on the table for you, His child and heir.

[jponb]

I pray that God regulates your mind and give you peace in your heart. And that He forgives you and I for our sins and lead us to a forgiving heart to do likewise unto others who has sin against us. I pray that He uses us as He will and that when those times come when we don't understand what He is doing, we won't try to. We will know in our hearts that He is sovereign and that His way is what's best for us, and we will step out on faith. It is in Jesus' name I pray. Amen.

[confused22]

The word “apostasy” is based on a Greek word that signifies a willful separation, like a divorce. It has nothing to do with degrees of faith. Think of it this way: In a marriage, you don’t go around talking about whether or not you’re only a little married or if you’re completely married. You either are or you aren’t. Period. But then if one day you decide to end the marriage, you are now divorced. There is no middle ground – you either are or you aren’t. That’s what Paul was talking about. So your concern is based, not on whether or not your faith is “strong enough”, but rather on a faulty understanding of the concept of “apostasy”.

Let’s talk about that specifically and then after that we’re going to talk about your faith. When Paul spoke in 2 Thessalonians 2 about the “apostasy” or the “falling away” (depending on your translation), he was speaking of a specific event. Notice the usage: “THE falling away” (or “THE apostasy”). We’re not just talking about a general concept here – Paul is speaking of a very specific occurrence that was yet future when he wrote it (and it still is future as of right now). Now, what, precisely, that occurrence turns out to be depends on how you interpret Bible prophecy. I have some very specific ideas about it that I won’t waste your time with right now, but suffice to say that at some point in the future, there will apparently be large numbers of so-called “Christians” who will turn their back on their beliefs and will choose a different belief system. They will willfully reject the atoning sacrifice of Jesus as the means of receiving eternal security. THAT is “apostasy”, not simply having a new faith that has not had a chance to grow to maturity yet. (And it sounds to me like you’re just struggling with a young faith that hadn’t matured, but that will happen with time.)

So unless you’re going around deciding that you’re done with Christianity and you don’t want to have anything more to do with it, then you have nothing to worry about as far as “apostasy” goes. You have not “divorced” yourself from your Lord Jesus, so you are still “married” to Him.

Now, we do need to talk about your faith, however. Your concerns are very understandable. Some of the things you have expressed here are very similar to many thoughts that I used to have a number of years ago and that many believers go through when they’re first starting to really explore their faith/beliefs. The most important thing to know is that it is absolutely normal.

Let’s discuss the specific points you brought up. You said that you have doubts about whether or not Jesus really existed. I would suggest that is not true. What you have a problem with is merely having a concept of Him having been here on the earth, not whether or not He really existed. Do you believe that if you travel to the north pole that you’ll discover a lot of snow and ice? Of course you do. But have you been there to see it with your own eyes? I’d bet not. But you’ll protest that you’ve seen pictures and movies of the north pole. Really? You were told they were pictures and movies of the north pole – but how do you know they weren’t lying to you and actually showing you the south pole? I know, I know, that’s ridiculous to seriously suggest, but my point is that you are taking those photos/movies and your belief in the existence of the north pole on faith. You’ve never been there yourself, so you have to conclude that the evidence you have been presented with is convincing enough to accept on faith that the north pole is real.

The same can be true of Jesus. Is the evidence convincing enough? Have you really checked into it? Personally, I have done a great deal of historical research and digging around and have been able to satisfy myself that the historical record contained in the Bible is absolutely trustworthy. But I didn’t just accept it blindly. I was actually very skeptical at one time. But after investigating the evidence, I became convinced that the message we find in the Bible is worthy of placing my faith in it. The more I investigate, the more the Bible is confirmed, and the more my faith in grows.

So if you have doubts about whether or not Jesus really existed, a little research on your part would probably be a big help. If you’ll go into the “Apologetics” forum here on this site and post a thread expressing your doubts and asking believers in there for some websites you can go to that will help with this area, you should receive a number of excellent answers.

Now, as for Hebrews 6, that does not apply to you. The book of Hebrews was addressed to Jewish believers who were giving into pressure from their Jewish friends/family to revert to the Mosaic Law. The point of Hebrews 6 was that once Jesus’ sacrifice was offered, to continue offering sacrifices on top of that is pointless and expresses a non-faith in Jesus’ sacrifice. You are not guilty of that, so you do not need to fear Hebrews 6.

I don’t know a whole lot about “Calvinism” and certainly don’t know anything about the specific sect of it that you are coming out of, but I do know this: When Jesus spoke of the father of the prodigal child watching the road for him to come back, he didn’t tell that story for warm fuzzies. Your Father in heaven was watching for you to come down that road, and when you said “Yes” to the gift that Jesus offered you on that cross, that was the moment you walked out of the pig pen and headed down to the road to your Father’s front door. That father did not walk up to the prodigal and look him over while he decided whether or not to claim him. He ran up to him and took him in his arms, pig smell and everything, and immediately proclaimed to the world that “My child is here!” Such is the case with you and your Father.

Now, as for your faith growing, that will take time and experience. As you read the Bible and learn to see the world around you with a Biblical mindset, your whole concept of reality will change. The only problem is that it takes time. You’re not going to immediately have the faith of somebody who’s been through a whole lifetime of experiencing God in their life. But it will get there. In the meantime, here’s something to think about.

I assume you admitted when you accepted Jesus’ death as the payment for your sins that you have no way of getting to heaven without that death and God’s resulting mercy. So here’s what I’m getting at. God has accepted your payment. The transaction has been completed. Your obligation is taken care of. All the responsibility is now squarely on God’s shoulders, not yours.

Think of it this way: If you and a friend walk into a clothing store and you need $200 worth of clothing, but you don’t have the $200, then there’s nothing that can be done for you. But what if you go up to the checkout and your friend whips out their credit/debit card and they pay for it? Would the clerk have any right to keep your newly purchased clothes from you? Of course not. The bill of sale has been paid. You now have the right to walk out of the store with those clothes.

It’s the same with your salvation. Jesus has paid your debt to our Father. The transaction has been completed. The only thing you need to do is just pick up the sack with the clothes inside and head out the door. Right now, you’re doubting if you have a right to take the sack with you. But I assure you, the cashier is not standing there trying to stop you, and neither is your Father. The cashier would be standing there wondering what’s the holdup, why doesn’t this person take the sack? So give yourself permission to take the sack that has been lawfully and completely paid for and head out the door with a smile on your face.

Your debt has been paid. The reservation has been made. The ticket is being held out to you. All you have to do is just get aboard and enjoy the flight. And at the end of the flight, you’re Father will be waiting to welcome you home with fatted calf steak waiting on the table for you, His child and heir.

I think your interpretation of me having a hard time of conceiving him here on earth is very accurate. It's like I try to picture it - and I can't. I try to picture Him doing the miracles - and I can't. I try to picture His virgin birth - and I can't. I try to picture His resurrection - and I can't. It's like I can't believe the historical facts.

I remember being IN LOVE with the Word when I was first saved. I could not get enough. I ate it up. I have been told this is a good sign that I was saved. Scripture made sense. What Jesus came to do made sense, etc...

I have been reading apologetics for a long time, and for some reason, I'm still having a hard time, but I think I'm starting to realize that I have a stubborn, obsessive mind. The obsessive component may actually be linked to my OCD. I honestly want to let go of all of this. I honestly want His will to be done. I really do want to surrender to Him with my all. I'm thinking about reading a series of Francis Schaeffer books.

It has truly gotten to the point where I will preach Jesus Christ, no questions asked with no fears, when I am presented with the opportunity. I gotta have it all settled in my heart first. If I can get over this obstacle, I will be one of the biggest warriors for Christ you've ever seen. I will testify to no end.

Maybe that's what is about to happen? If this happens, I think it could be a partial cure for my depression. I'm so sick of asking all these philosophical/existential questions. :-) I'm a highly intelligent person academically, so it's no wonder I would question everything to death. I would rather not! Being "smart" has its downside!!!!

[Oma]

Hi Everyone!

I'm afraid I am apostate! Even though I read my Bible, read apologetics books, pray, etc... I have this horrible fear that I'm apostate, and that God will never restore me. You see, I've had doubts that Christ actually existed, and I've had doubts about God existing. I feel totally hopeless right now. Not to mention, I have clinical depression.

I SO badly want to believe in Jesus. I so badly want to let go of this silly notion of thinking He didn't exist. These thoughts came from nowhere. I just don't want to be like the person in Hebrews 6. I truly want to spend eternity in heaven, and I am so scared God isn't going to let me. I come from a Calvinist background, and I have been told I would be apostate if I wasn't trying to pursue God. But, I think of God and Jesus every single day. I am seeking counseling from a Christian psychologist and psychiatrist. The thought that Christ didn't exist is a totally UNWANTED thought. Please give me advice!!!!:help:


I've been there! I found it most helpful to pray everytime Satanic thoughts came to my mind. Answered prayer is what made it stop!

Have you heard of Pilgrims Progress by John Bunyan? It is an allegory of the Christian's life with the Lord. When Christian went thought the Valley of Humiliation in the dark, he heard blasphemous voices and thought they were his own. When light came he saw it had been demons whispering those thoughts and he was not responsible for them at all.

The best help for your soul at this time is the Word of God and prayer. The Lord Jesus never refused to help any that come to Him. :)
1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

[confused22]

I've been there! I found it most helpful to pray everytime Satanic thoughts came to my mind. Answered prayer is what made it stop!

Have you heard of Pilgrims Progress by John Bunyan? It is an allegory of the Christian's life with the Lord. When Christian went thought the Valley of Humiliation in the dark, he heard blasphemous voices and thought they were his own. When light came he saw it had been demons whispering those thoughts and he was not responsible for them at all.

The best help for your soul at this time is the Word of God and prayer. The Lord Jesus never refused to help any that come to Him. :)
1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

WOW! Thank you so much!!! I've really been going through some of these doubts for a few years (I have been a Christian for about 4 years), but they really just came to a head. I had been able to kind of blow them over and realize that God knew what I was going through, etc... Now, I'm being forced to pray, read, explore, etc... in ways I haven't before. I think my depression has spurred this on. In fact, my depression was caused by this I think, but I did take a urine test and my serotonin is EXTREMELY low. Hence, I'm getting help with that. Who knows, maybe my clinical depression is happening to force me to understand my purpose, my place in this world.

So, you've really been there? What was your experience with this Oma?

[Literalist-Luke]

I think your interpretation of me having a hard time of conceiving him here on earth is very accurate. It's like I try to picture it - and I can't. I try to picture Him doing the miracles - and I can't. I try to picture His virgin birth - and I can't. I try to picture His resurrection - and I can't. It's like I can't believe the historical facts.OK, now we're getting somewhere. :thumbsup: Your honesty with yourself about these issues is going to be a very big help to your faith in the long run. There is a really great movie called The Gospel of John that I would like to recommend to you. It's a re-enactment of the book of John. The way they portray Jesus in that movie is amazingly similar to the way that I've always conceived of Him. It might help you to "envision" the things you're struggling with.

At the same time, I would also suggest that you need to give yourself permission to honestly not know what the actual event looked like. I mean, think about other historical events that are not from the Bible. Consider just for one example, George Washington accepting General Cornwallis' surrender on behalf of the British Empire, giving the colonies our victory in the American Revolution. What did the scene look like? You don't know, you weren't there. But you don't doubt it happened, because we live in a nation that resulted from that war being successfully completed.

By the same token, you aren't able to envision Jesus empowering 12 uneducated peasants to share His message with the world because you weren't there, yet you live in a world that has been completely transformed by that message. Our entire western civilization is built on the principals that were spread by that little band of men. So if the Bible's account of where Christianity really did come from were not real, then how on earth do you explain where western values and customs came from?

Please don't think I'm getting on to you here, I'm not trying to challenge you on this at all. However, I am trying to challenge that part of you that is struggling with "unbelief" to realize that your faith might actually be stronger than you realize it is.I remember being IN LOVE with the Word when I was first saved. I could not get enough. I ate it up. I have been told this is a good sign that I was saved. Scripture made sense. What Jesus came to do made sense, etc...Whoever told you that it's a good sign was absolutely right. Consider this:

I Corinthians 1:18 - "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

You see, without the Holy Spirit helping you to understand the Bible, it is our nature to utterly reject the Bible. In our flesh by ourselves, the Bible cannot make any sense whatsoever. It is impossible for the Bible to make sense without the Holy Spirit opening our eyes. So your response to the Bible and your description of not being able to get enough of it proves that the Holy Spirit is working in you to understand the Bible. That proves that the Holy Spirit really is indwelling you. You have that seal of the Spirit that Paul spoke of that proves that you really are in God's family.I have been reading apologetics for a long time, and for some reason, I'm still having a hard time, but I think I'm starting to realize that I have a stubborn, obsessive mind.Ha. Take a number. Join the crowd. :lol:The obsessive component may actually be linked to my OCD.That could very well be an issue for you, I agree. It won't keep God from being in your life, but I can see how it would affect your ability to relate to Him. :yes:I honestly want to let go of all of this. I honestly want His will to be done. I really do want to surrender to Him with my all. I'm thinking about reading a series of Francis Schaeffer books.I'm not personally familiar with Francis Schaeffer, but hey, if it helps, go for it.It has truly gotten to the point where I will preach Jesus Christ, no questions asked with no fears, when I am presented with the opportunity. I gotta have it all settled in my heart first. If I can get over this obstacle, I will be one of the biggest warriors for Christ you've ever seen. I will testify to no end.An excellent goal. :thumbsup: Just make sure that, in the process of getting there, you recognize that it is by His power and His Spirit working within you to make those changes happen. It's not by your will or your strength. As long as you just keep that in mind, you should be fine. :)Maybe that's what is about to happen? If this happens, I think it could be a partial cure for my depression.Perhaps so. :yes:I'm so sick of asking all these philosophical/existential questions. :-) I'm a highly intelligent person academically, so it's no wonder I would question everything to death. I would rather not! Being "smart" has its downside!!!!Hey, don't be so hard on yourself. The issues you're struggling with are things that I have struggled with myself. There's nothing wrong with asking the questions. What would be wrong would be to not try to find answers and to consequently miss out on your relationship with God. You, however, are trying to find the answers, so you are to be commended for that. :yes:

Having already been down the path that you are picking your way through, I can assure you that, once you get to the point where you feel like you've found answers that you're comfortable with, your faith will be an example that those around you will find amazing in tough times. Your faith will have the ability to go through terrible trials without even being budged, because you will have already dealt with the big questions that most people just ignore until they're in the middle of a crisis. You will be able to have a peace with your Father that other people, both lost people and believers alike, will find bewildering, because they won't understand the solid rock that you are working so hard to build your faith on. So I applaud you for not being afraid to face these questions today and get them answered. They will make you much stronger in the end.

[Oma]

Confused 22, actually our soul and body sympathise with each other, your depression could well be caused by spiritual and/or bodily problems.

I too come from a Calvinist background - actually hypercalvinist with a harsh view of God; He was portrayed more like Allah then the God of the Bible. When I was searching for salvation I thought that I was willing but God was not willing to save me, maybe I wasn't elect etc. Much later it was reading a booklet by Charles Spurgeon that made the Gospel plain to me. I suspect that Satan doesn't like to see us pray so if we pray when we get atheistical thoughts, he leaves us alone.

The book Grace Abounding is the story of John Bunyan's life and conversion. It describes some lengthy spiritual struggles he went through. Not pleasant reading, but I think it would make you feel that you are certainly not alone.

[Redneck Charger]

Confussed22.. I have been in your shoes.. But I began to believe.. and I began to pray.. and have learned so many miricles have happened because I prayed.. None of them would have happened with out Jesus.. You need to bow your head..and ask Jesus for his forgiveness.. I have done this..and helps me live better each and everyday.. and every now and then I think I don't need his help..and it never works.. but when I pray.. it usually always works out the way Jesus thinks it should.. Jesus I pray that you will welcome Confessed the way you welcomed me into belief.. Please Jesus..:pray::pray:

[daughter]

Hey, confused... just to let you know, you've got some great advise here, and I really pray that it's comforted you. Everybody does struggle at some point, the trick is to keep on going despite the discouragement. Every step that you take will help you grow in faith, and you will come out of this a stronger and more grounded Christian. Just keep on reading your Bible. Read the letters of encouragement... and I hope you take comfort in what Luke said about the nature of apostasy. You are NOT apostate, you are struggling with depression. God knows that, and His grace is sufficient. Keep going, and rejoice in Him always.

If you want to, could you tell us what you're reading in the Bible, and we'll be able to encourage you through that? In the meantime, just to let you know... it's actually encouraging for us to see a Christian in your position who continues to love God and want to please Him, even when their faith is under such attack. God is making you stronger than you know.

[turtledove]

Moving this thread from C&E to Counseling Requests for further counseling. Replies will be automatically directed there.

wiseoldowl..facilitator :)

[Sold Out]

Hi Everyone!

I'm afraid I am apostate! Even though I read my Bible, read apologetics books, pray, etc... I have this horrible fear that I'm apostate, and that God will never restore me. You see, I've had doubts that Christ actually existed, and I've had doubts about God existing. I feel totally hopeless right now. Not to mention, I have clinical depression.

I SO badly want to believe in Jesus. I so badly want to let go of this silly notion of thinking He didn't exist. These thoughts came from nowhere. I just don't want to be like the person in Hebrews 6. I truly want to spend eternity in heaven, and I am so scared God isn't going to let me. I come from a Calvinist background, and I have been told I would be apostate if I wasn't trying to pursue God. But, I think of God and Jesus every single day. I am seeking counseling from a Christian psychologist and psychiatrist. The thought that Christ didn't exist is a totally UNWANTED thought. Please give me advice!!!!:help:

Satan is tormenting you. He is planting these thoughts in your mind. In Jesus name, command that He get behind you. Pray to God to send angels to protect you from Satan's imps (demons).

[Literalist-Luke]

Satan is tormenting you. He is planting these thoughts in your mind. In Jesus name, command that He get behind you. Pray to God to send angels to protect you from Satan's imps (demons).This is well and good, but there's a little more involved here than just "rebuking the devil" and then merrily going about your business.

[confused22]

Hey, confused... just to let you know, you've got some great advise here, and I really pray that it's comforted you. Everybody does struggle at some point, the trick is to keep on going despite the discouragement. Every step that you take will help you grow in faith, and you will come out of this a stronger and more grounded Christian. Just keep on reading your Bible. Read the letters of encouragement... and I hope you take comfort in what Luke said about the nature of apostasy. You are NOT apostate, you are struggling with depression. God knows that, and His grace is sufficient. Keep going, and rejoice in Him always.

If you want to, could you tell us what you're reading in the Bible, and we'll be able to encourage you through that? In the meantime, just to let you know... it's actually encouraging for us to see a Christian in your position who continues to love God and want to please Him, even when their faith is under such attack. God is making you stronger than you know.

YES, it is very encouraging to me! Today has actually been an amazing day, and I am currently going back and forth between Job, Ecclesiastes, and John. Anyone have any studies they would recommend or a specific book that they think I should read? Thanks!

[Chimon]

Mark, chapter 9: "And Jesus asked [the demon possessed boy's] father, "How long has this been happening to him?" And he said, "From childhood. And [the demon] has often cast him into fire and into water, to destroy him. But if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us." And Jesus said to him, "'If you can'! All things are possible for one who believes." Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, "I believe; help my unbelief!" And when Jesus saw that a crowd came running together, he rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, "You mute and deaf spirit, I command you, come out of him and never enter him again." (ESV, bold mine.)

It takes only faith like that of a mustard seed to be saved. Having a thought cross your mind is not disbelief or sin. Demons can put thoughts in our mind to tempt us or to falsely condemn us with. In 2 Corinthians 10, Paul talks about taking every thought captive to make it obedient to Christ. This means that even The Apostle Paul, who wrote a quarter of the New Testament, stuggled with controlling his thoughts.

Paul also said, "I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate." (Romans 7.) Ceasing to doubt and doing all that God wants for us to do is not what brings salvation. What brings salvation is understanding that we can't be righteous on our own, and we must rely on Christ to save us from our sin. Having been saved, we should also rely on Christ to sanctify us, that is, having been saved by faith, we should also rely on Christ to make us more like him, rather than trying to achieve righteousness by working hard in the Christian life.

Galatians 3, Paul says, "You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?"

[confused22]

Mark, chapter 9: "And Jesus asked [the demon possessed boy's] father, "How long has this been happening to him?" And he said, "From childhood. And [the demon] has often cast him into fire and into water, to destroy him. But if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us." And Jesus said to him, "'If you can'! All things are possible for one who believes." Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, "I believe; help my unbelief!" And when Jesus saw that a crowd came running together, he rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, "You mute and deaf spirit, I command you, come out of him and never enter him again." (ESV, bold mine.)

It takes only faith like that of a mustard seed to be saved. Having a thought cross your mind is not disbelief or sin. Demons can put thoughts in our mind to tempt us or to falsely condemn us with. In 2 Corinthians 10, Paul talks about taking every thought captive to make it obedient to Christ. This means that even The Apostle Paul, who wrote a quarter of the New Testament, stuggled with controlling his thoughts.

Paul also said, "I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate." (Romans 7.) Ceasing to doubt and doing all that God wants for us to do is not what brings salvation. What brings salvation is understanding that we can't be righteous on our own, and we must rely on Christ to save us from our sin. Having been saved, we should also rely on Christ to sanctify us, that is, having been saved by faith, we should also rely on Christ to make us more like him, rather than trying to achieve righteousness by working hard in the Christian life.

Galatians 3, Paul says, "You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?"

I totally understand that my salvation is not dependent on my works. I know that God can hold me regardless of me. I am struggling with an intellectual battle. I know that it will ultimately be God that gets me through it. Thank you for the Scriptures and encouragement!

[gpmosely]

Hi Confused,
I'm new here. *waves*
I just wanted to let you know, that we all go through this doubt. It's perfectly normal. It's human nature to doubt things we simply cannot physically see, touch etc. Yet we can in the Lord's creation and in the word of God.

Now, not to long ago (I'm just sharing my experience so you can gauge), I had trouble believing in God and really I am a scientist. Gen Ch 1 did not make sense to me. Therefore I concluded that God and Jesus were not real, but I did not discount it entirely, as again, I had not physically seen or touched or heard... BUT then I got an amazing teacher. Who, through the word of God aligned the creation of the earth with Science. That helped me come around.

Now praying will help you out a lot, but this i sjust a polite suggestion, maybe you can hang out with us (I'm new so I can't really suggest us without their consent but by the looks of it, they agree!) , and if you can find yourself a really good Bible teacher. Who will be patient with you, go through it chapter by Chapter verse by verse. And then as you continue to grow in your faith and your walk with God eventually the doubts will go away.

The main thing, in my opinion, is to get into the word of God and read it and begin to be fed by the word of God.

One of the things that also really began to turn me away is that when I went to church, I was never "FED". I was given "milk" by always hearing the salvation story. Now that in itself is such a beautiful thing, but if one hears it to much many people begin to question how real it is, because they are getting nothing but milk, when the new Christians should be (in my opinion) given meat so they can grow stronger. So make sure that you can read and understand the Bible, so that you can be nurtured by the Holy Spirit.

I hope this helps out some :)

and...one more thing... our God is a very kind and understanding God. He understands the struggle of flesh. He is very fair. He'll let you in, if you know and are trying to genuinely remedy a problem. It's not a sin for you to question- i truely see it more of your wanting to get to know him more.

Sort of like- if you will forgive the analogy- you see someone across the room, you've heard great things about them, you maybe said hi to them but you still want to know them... but you're having doubts if you should etc... that's how I'm seeing this. So don't worry, you're on the right track :)

[Marc B]

Hi Everyone!

I'm afraid I am apostate! Even though I read my Bible, read apologetics books, pray, etc... I have this horrible fear that I'm apostate, and that God will never restore me. You see, I've had doubts that Christ actually existed, and I've had doubts about God existing. I feel totally hopeless right now. Not to mention, I have clinical depression.

I SO badly want to believe in Jesus. I so badly want to let go of this silly notion of thinking He didn't exist. These thoughts came from nowhere. I just don't want to be like the person in Hebrews 6. I truly want to spend eternity in heaven, and I am so scared God isn't going to let me. I come from a Calvinist background, and I have been told I would be apostate if I wasn't trying to pursue God. But, I think of God and Jesus every single day. I am seeking counseling from a Christian psychologist and psychiatrist. The thought that Christ didn't exist is a totally UNWANTED thought. Please give me advice!!!!:help:

A lot of great advice from some very caring people here. I'm going through something similar with unwanted thoughts in my head too and it bugs me a lot as well. Welcome to our world. As you can see you are not alone in this and we all share your grief. You will find that the harder you try to get closer to God the harder Satan will try to discourage you from doing it. It's a good sign, it means your faith is genuine and your resolve is being tested. Remember that God let Satan torment Job and Job won in the end for holding out and you can too so hang in there. Be stubborn in your faith. :pp

[confused22]

Hi Everyone:

Well, things have been going a lot better the past few weeks. However, I have a pure-O form of OCD. I can go days at a time without it, and then it will hit me. It is this horrible fear that I am going to commit suicide that has been going on for the past few months - hence, some of the horrible, unwanted thoughts in my head. It is not like me at all, but it makes me feel like I don't have a future to look forward to! I am getting help, and I am making progress, but I need all of you to pray for me. I have all these doubts going on, and I just feel like my mind is incapable of making a decision - just pathologic doubt. Please pray that God will help me to get past this period in my life. I would love to visit here regularly, and I would appreciate some encouragement from you guys daily in this thread.

BTW, also pray for the following:
- pass Cal III exam Wed. (Picturing 3-D objects in your head is extremely difficult)
- pass two exams on Thursday

Thanks!:help::hug:

[gpmosely]

Hi Everyone!

I'm afraid I am apostate! Even though I read my Bible, read apologetics books, pray, etc... I have this horrible fear that I'm apostate, and that God will never restore me. You see, I've had doubts that Christ actually existed, and I've had doubts about God existing. I feel totally hopeless right now. Not to mention, I have clinical depression.

I SO badly want to believe in Jesus. I so badly want to let go of this silly notion of thinking He didn't exist. These thoughts came from nowhere. I just don't want to be like the person in Hebrews 6. I truly want to spend eternity in heaven, and I am so scared God isn't going to let me. I come from a Calvinist background, and I have been told I would be apostate if I wasn't trying to pursue God. But, I think of God and Jesus every single day. I am seeking counseling from a Christian psychologist and psychiatrist. The thought that Christ didn't exist is a totally UNWANTED thought. Please give me advice!!!!:help:

Its only natural for man to doubt God, I mean as a scientist I can tell you, that we have no physical means of his existance. We can't observe him, we can't do this or that. As for Jesus, there really is no real evidence that he did exist.

BUT...
Through science, this coming from someone who didn't believe in God UNTIL I became a scientist- God makes himself known. Fear is not of God. He's not going to push you away because you doubt his existance. That's just more reason for you to say- Hey God will you make yourself known to me?

Chances are God will say- sure let me show you ...

So don't worry, just keep persuing God. He's not going to shun you because you want him to make himself known to you. He's probably quite flattered! And chances are, he will begin to show you more and more :)

[Literalist-Luke]

Hi Everyone:

Well, things have been going a lot better the past few weeks. However, I have a pure-O form of OCD. I can go days at a time without it, and then it will hit me. It is this horrible fear that I am going to commit suicide that has been going on for the past few months - hence, some of the horrible, unwanted thoughts in my head. It is not like me at all, but it makes me feel like I don't have a future to look forward to! I am getting help, and I am making progress, but I need all of you to pray for me. I have all these doubts going on, and I just feel like my mind is incapable of making a decision - just pathologic doubt. Please pray that God will help me to get past this period in my life. I would love to visit here regularly, and I would appreciate some encouragement from you guys daily in this thread.

BTW, also pray for the following:
- pass Cal III exam Wed. (Picturing 3-D objects in your head is extremely difficult)
- pass two exams on Thursday

Thanks!:help::hug:Hello, confused. :) It's great to hear from you again. I'm going to reveal something to you that I don't think I've ever told anybody here before. I used to have some major, major problems with thoughts of suicide. There was this one Saturday when I was literally sitting in the bed of a pickup truck with a loaded shotgun and was trying to convince myself to put the barrel in my mouth and pull the trigger. I actually had the gun in my mouth, but "something" stopped me from pulling the trigger. (I'll give you one guess Who that "something" was. :) )

I have learned something since then that I'm going to try to pass on to you, since you and I seem to be on the same road, me with a little head start is all. Your life is what you choose to make of it. When thoughts of suicide and escaping from this world start coming into your mind, you have to choose to set them aside and instead of dwelling on them, meditate instead on the fact that God has you here for a reason, that there is a purpose for you to exist and that He has a plan in mind for you. What that plan is, I have no way of knowing specifically, of course. But if you're sitting around plotting how to carry out the act of suicide, you need to stop and instead start plotting how to LIVE!

What do you see yourself accomplishing in a year, in five years, in ten years? Family? Career? Marriage? (I'm only guessing since I have no idea what your life situation is right now.) Whatever goals you wish to have for yourself, you need to, first of all, pray for wisdom in setting your goals, then you need to envision yourself accomplishing those goals, make a plan on how to reach them, and then start carrying out that plan with the knowledge that, since you prayed about it and turned it over to the Lord, that He is going to be with you every step of the way.

In this way, you will find meaning, purpose, and direction for your life, and you'll be able to see the hand of God leading you steadily through the process. Just make sure you're dwelling on these thoughts, and NOT thoughts about suicide - those really are of the devil. I speak from personal experience, as one who was miraculously set free and has no such thoughts anymore. :thumbsup:

You have to retrain your mind how to think - it's a slow process, but it can be done. It's what Paul spoke of in Romans 12:2 - "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will."

You CAN experience the same victory that God game to me - He has given you the power in His Holy Spirit to do it - you only need reach out, take it, and say "Yes" to Him. He can turn your life around and make it an experience of victory over depression.

Prayin' fer ya. :pray:

P. S. Are you getting any counseling or taking any mediation? I mean, faith and choosing to live in a Godly lifestyle are certainly important, but if you're having issues with clinical depression, that is something that medication would be very appropriate for. There's no sin in getting appropriate medical help for a very real condition, if it exists.

[confused22]

Hello, confused. :) It's great to hear from you again. I'm going to reveal something to you that I don't think I've ever told anybody here before. I used to have some major, major problems with thoughts of suicide. There was this one Saturday when I was literally sitting in the bed of a pickup truck with a loaded shotgun and was trying to convince myself to put the barrel in my mouth and pull the trigger. I actually had the gun in my mouth, but "something" stopped me from pulling the trigger. (I'll give you one guess Who that "something" was. :) )

I have learned something since then that I'm going to try to pass on to you, since you and I seem to be on the same road, me with a little head start is all. Your life is what you choose to make of it. When thoughts of suicide and escaping from this world start coming into your mind, you have to choose to set them aside and instead of dwelling on them, meditate instead on the fact that God has you here for a reason, that there is a purpose for you to exist and that He has a plan in mind for you. What that plan is, I have no way of knowing specifically, of course. But if you're sitting around plotting how to carry out the act of suicide, you need to stop and instead start plotting how to LIVE!

What do you see yourself accomplishing in a year, in five years, in ten years? Family? Career? Marriage? (I'm only guessing since I have no idea what your life situation is right now.) Whatever goals you wish to have for yourself, you need to, first of all, pray for wisdom in setting your goals, then you need to envision yourself accomplishing those goals, make a plan on how to reach them, and then start carrying out that plan with the knowledge that, since you prayed about it and turned it over to the Lord, that He is going to be with you every step of the way.

In this way, you will find meaning, purpose, and direction for your life, and you'll be able to see the hand of God leading you steadily through the process. Just make sure you're dwelling on these thoughts, and NOT thoughts about suicide - those really are of the devil. I speak from personal experience, as one who was miraculously set free and has no such thoughts anymore. :thumbsup:

You have to retrain your mind how to think - it's a slow process, but it can be done. It's what Paul spoke of in Romans 12:2 - "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will."

You CAN experience the same victory that God game to me - He has given you the power in His Holy Spirit to do it - you only need reach out, take it, and say "Yes" to Him. He can turn your life around and make it an experience of victory over depression.

Prayin' fer ya. :pray:

P. S. Are you getting any counseling or taking any mediation? I mean, faith and choosing to live in a Godly lifestyle are certainly important, but if you're having issues with clinical depression, that is something that medication would be very appropriate for. There's no sin in getting appropriate medical help for a very real condition, if it exists.

Wow, you really have been a God-send, because your posts have been the most accurate in relation to my problems. I will say this, I make no plans for suicide. I have no plan, and I refuse to make a plan or a way to do it. It's more of a feeling, period. And yes, I am going to a CHRISTIAN psychiatrist, and I have started Zoloft. However, because I have panic disorder, I had to start on a dose that isn't even therapuetic. I've been on a theraputic dose for just over 2 weeks. I really have very bad obsessive thinking, and the Zoloft is supposed to help with that.

Thank you for sharing your story - I have to go to something for a class tonight - some movie about the black church during the Civil War.

I will reply more later. Is there anyway to send private messages on this thing?

[confused22]

Hello, confused. :) It's great to hear from you again. I'm going to reveal something to you that I don't think I've ever told anybody here before. I used to have some major, major problems with thoughts of suicide. There was this one Saturday when I was literally sitting in the bed of a pickup truck with a loaded shotgun and was trying to convince myself to put the barrel in my mouth and pull the trigger. I actually had the gun in my mouth, but "something" stopped me from pulling the trigger. (I'll give you one guess Who that "something" was. :) )

I have learned something since then that I'm going to try to pass on to you, since you and I seem to be on the same road, me with a little head start is all. Your life is what you choose to make of it. When thoughts of suicide and escaping from this world start coming into your mind, you have to choose to set them aside and instead of dwelling on them, meditate instead on the fact that God has you here for a reason, that there is a purpose for you to exist and that He has a plan in mind for you. What that plan is, I have no way of knowing specifically, of course. But if you're sitting around plotting how to carry out the act of suicide, you need to stop and instead start plotting how to LIVE!

What do you see yourself accomplishing in a year, in five years, in ten years? Family? Career? Marriage? (I'm only guessing since I have no idea what your life situation is right now.) Whatever goals you wish to have for yourself, you need to, first of all, pray for wisdom in setting your goals, then you need to envision yourself accomplishing those goals, make a plan on how to reach them, and then start carrying out that plan with the knowledge that, since you prayed about it and turned it over to the Lord, that He is going to be with you every step of the way.

In this way, you will find meaning, purpose, and direction for your life, and you'll be able to see the hand of God leading you steadily through the process. Just make sure you're dwelling on these thoughts, and NOT thoughts about suicide - those really are of the devil. I speak from personal experience, as one who was miraculously set free and has no such thoughts anymore. :thumbsup:

You have to retrain your mind how to think - it's a slow process, but it can be done. It's what Paul spoke of in Romans 12:2 - "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will."

You CAN experience the same victory that God game to me - He has given you the power in His Holy Spirit to do it - you only need reach out, take it, and say "Yes" to Him. He can turn your life around and make it an experience of victory over depression.

Prayin' fer ya. :pray:

P. S. Are you getting any counseling or taking any mediation? I mean, faith and choosing to live in a Godly lifestyle are certainly important, but if you're having issues with clinical depression, that is something that medication would be very appropriate for. There's no sin in getting appropriate medical help for a very real condition, if it exists.

Hi! Okay, I'm back to type some more in response to this. To let you know, I'm in my last year of college. I really want to be a financial advisor. I think a lot of what I'm going through relates to just a feeling of uncertainty regarding my future.

I have a question for you - were you having these thoughts when you were already a Christian? I'm just trying to see my situation in relation to your own. It sounds like you were possibly a little more serious about it than I have been. I have a network of friends and family praying for me through this difficult time, and I have kept going, regardless. I also have a professor that has been kind enough to give me extentions on work, etc... and he is doing everything he can to help me through the process. Trust me when I say that I am seeking help - from above and here. And I have been seeking that help on my OWN initiative. No one had to force me - even though a psychologist from my church did basically have to force me to go see a psychiatrist that he knows (and, my dad is also a psychologist and happens to know this psychiatrist which was kind of a confirmation to me). In a profession that is so often liberal, I am surrounded by psychologists and psychiatrists that are conservative and Christian. :-)

But anyway, I just want to know that I'll make it through this period in my life - that I won't attempt anything stupid. I just want to know that it gets better, and that I won't feel this way forever.

I just want to know God with all of my heart, and I ultimately don't want to give up. This has just been a very challenging time of asking questions, etc... and it's been hard to shed the negative and renew the mind.

Thank you so much for your prayers.

[confused22]

If anyone else has any advice to share on dealing with the suicidal thoughts and depression, it would be very welcome. I would like to make clear that I am doing better, but sometimes it's the hardest when you're going through the therapy process. Thanks for any Godly advice and support in advance. It's extra hard to be dealing with such thoughts and depression when you're a Christian.

[Literalist-Luke]

Were you having these thoughts when you were already a Christian?Yes, that's right, I was a Christian.I'm just trying to see my situation in relation to your own. It sounds like you were possibly a little more serious about it than I have been.Probably so. :yes:I have a network of friends and family praying for me through this difficult time, and I have kept going, regardless. I also have a professor that has been kind enough to give me extentions on work, etc... and he is doing everything he can to help me through the process. Trust me when I say that I am seeking help - from above and here.Good for you. :thumbsup:And I have been seeking that help on my OWN initiative. No one had to force me - even though a psychologist from my church did basically have to force me to go see a psychiatrist that he knows (and, my dad is also a psychologist and happens to know this psychiatrist which was kind of a confirmation to me). In a profession that is so often liberal, I am surrounded by psychologists and psychiatrists that are conservative and Christian. :-)Then you're on the right track. :thumbsup:But anyway, I just want to know that I'll make it through this period in my life - that I won't attempt anything stupid.It all depends on how you envision your future - and that is a choice that we all have to make. If you envision a future that is worth living for, then chances are that you'll find a way to live for it. :yes:I just want to know that it gets better, and that I won't feel this way forever.If there are medical reasons for you to feel this way, it will require medication to get past it. Beyond that, it's a matter of how you perceive your own existence, just like I've already talked about. :)I just want to know God with all of my heart, and I ultimately don't want to give up.Maybe it might help if you keep in mind that He already knows your deepest, inmost secrets, no matter how dark and awful they might be, and yet He still desires you as His child more than you can possibly imagine. If He considers you worthy in that manner, then who are you to argue? :yes:This has just been a very challenging time of asking questions, etc... and it's been hard to shed the negative and renew the mind.That's very understandable, a transition like what you've been discussing is never easy. But it is worth it, trust me, you're "hearing" the voice of experience here. :thumbsup:Thank you so much for your prayers.It's the least I can do. :pray:

[confused22]

Thanks Literalist-luke! I am thankful that you told me your story! God truly wants me to be in this group.

I would still like to hear from some others who have been in similar situations as ours. It always helps to hear from people who triumph!!

[Literalist-Luke]

Wow, you really have been a God-send, because your posts have been the most accurate in relation to my problems. I will say this, I make no plans for suicide. I have no plan, and I refuse to make a plan or a way to do it. It's more of a feeling, period. And yes, I am going to a CHRISTIAN psychiatrist, and I have started Zoloft. However, because I have panic disorder, I had to start on a dose that isn't even therapuetic. I've been on a theraputic dose for just over 2 weeks. I really have very bad obsessive thinking, and the Zoloft is supposed to help with that.

Thank you for sharing your story - I have to go to something for a class tonight - some movie about the black church during the Civil War.

I will reply more later. Is there anyway to send private messages on this thing?I'm really sorry, I didn't see this post earlier, I guess I just kind of "glossed it over" or something. http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w40/litluke/doh.gif

Your comments here are very encouraging, that you haven't been dwelling on suicide or how to do it. That was a very dangerous area that I allowed myself to go WAY too far with. I have heard of Zoloft before and that it does help, so that's a good thing that you're on it. Your psychiatrist will no doubt be a major help to you in all of this, so just make sure you take your medicine consistently.

The dangerous part with clinical depression is actually when you start feeling better. A lot of times people will start taking their medicine very faithfully, but then they start feeling better and think they can cope fine and no longer need the medicine, so they stop taking it - and guess what happens? They wind up right back where they were before. So if that medicine really does make a difference for you, you've got to remember, even when you start feeling better, that you absolutely must, must, must keep taking that medicine without ever stopping unless your doctor tells you to.

As for Private Messaging, there are restrictions on who is allowed to do it (10 posts and 7 days since joining), but you've already met the restrictions. If you'll go here (http://bibleforums.org/forum/profile.php?do=editoptions), you should find "Enable Private Messaging" about 1/3 of the way down. Just make sure there's a checkmark in that box and you should be all set.

If that doesn't do it, then you'll need to get ahold of a moderator and ask them why the blankety-blank your PMing ain't on yet!? http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w40/litluke/rant.gif http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w40/litluke/biggrin1.gif

Anyway, I'm very glad if I've been some small help to you. That's the Romans 8:28 part of what I went through - it allows me to help others through similar experiences and to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I'm glad you're finding your light. :hug:

[Literalist-Luke]

Oh, I forgot to mention, after you put that checkmark on "Enable Private Messaging", you'll need to click "save changes" at the bottom of the page. Sorry 'bout that. :blush:

[confused22]

Literalist-Luke has helped a lot, but it would be great to get some other perspectives and experiences from Christians who have suffered suicidal thoughts. Thanks. :-)