Outdoor CHRISTMAS tree at apartment complex

[taddy]

NOTE: THIS THREAD IS NOT TO BE A DISCUSSION OF WHETHER OR NOT CHRISTMAS IS TO BE CELEBRATED. PLEASE LIMIT YOUR RESPONSES TO THE SITUATION AT HAND. TAD

The mangement company of my apartment comlex just sent notices stating that they wish to have a "Resident 'holiday' tree. Residents, who wish may bring up to 2 ornaments for the tree. They can not say "CHRISTMAS" and they can not be 'religious (no nativity scenes)'. The tree will be decorated soley by residents.

Is the management infringing on my free speech?

Taddy

[Vhayes]

No, they aren't.

Put up your own tree outside with religious ornamenst AND a nativity scene. If they tell you you aren't allowed to do that, THEN they are infringing on your right of free speech.

[karenoka27]

I don't think they are either. They are inviting you to do something on their property. I would go and get two ornaments and join in to make it a very pretty tree!

I like Wizard of Oz ornaments....

[jangar]

I'm not sure. Some may argue that is private property, others may argue that they are providing an open forum. I personaly believe that open forum may trump private property.

I will have to think about it before I give my answer.

[RabbiKnife]

The apartment complex is private property. You pay a lease for the permission to live there.

They can restrict your use of the space anyway they want, particularly the common area space outside of your four rented walls.

There is no right to free speech. There is only a right that the government of the US cannot restrict your speech.

[jangar]

This is a spur of the moment post, here is what I believe.

Since the tree is being decorated by residents only, the management should not be discrimanating against you. Somewhere in your lease, it should say that they are not allowed to discrimanate against religion, race, national origin, ect. Prohibbiting ornaments simply because they are religious falls under religious discrimanation.

"Residents, who wish may bring up to 2 ornaments for the tree. They can not say "CHRISTMAS"

They probably have this rule because they don't want to discrimanate against people who don't celebrate CHRISTMAS. However, the opposite is true. Prohibbiting ornaments simply because they say the word Christmas is discrimanation against those who do celebrate it. Also, it would be discrimanation if the management mandated that ALL ORNAMENTS to say Merry Christmas.
__________________________________________________ ______________

When you go to this decorating party, you should wear the most outspoken religious CHRISTMAS shirt or hat that you can find:lol:. You should also encourage your neighbors (who are in agreement) to do the same:idea:. While you are there, don't forget to say plenty of MERRY CHRISTMASES:D.


Jangar

[Lyndie]

I'm wondering why they are doing it in the first place, it it can't have anything "Christmas" on it. Kind of like the stores who want you to buy thier stuff but won't say Merry Christmas. You could hang a big banner out your window saying Merry Christmas.

[Soulangel]

I think the management have simply found a way around the political correctness ballyhoo to have their way to put up a Christmas tree. They obviously want to celebrate the season but had to be creative and not "offend" anyone and they did it in such a way that no one can come along and say "take it down!" Good on them for being creative enough to get around the rules because it's still going to look like and be a Christmas tree no matter which way you look at it!!

[angel_fire]

I agree with Soulangel, the tree itself represents Christmas. Bring some Candy Canes, they represent Christ, and put them on the Tree.

[karenoka27]

I like the candy cane idea. You could also bring some candy cane tracts which you can get at your Christian bookstore.
The rules say you can't put anything religious on the tree, but they didn't say you couldn't put it in their hands!:rolleyes:

[HisLeast]

Or the next time it comes around, ask management to help you sponsor an afternoon long BBQ in honor of Ramadan.

[Cloudwalker]

I would suggest getting an opinion from someone well versed in the law. Particularly someone that specializes in defending our rights as Christians. The Christian Law Association does just this and could possibly give better answers to the question.

[cnw]

why are you arguing about two ornaments? So get a beautiful ornament or two and decorate if you want to participate and talk about Christ to another person who is hanging an ornament at the same time. Man change the ornament out every time you see someone come to the tree. lol what an oportunity to witness every time you go to the tree, who needs a nativity!!!

[MOTC7]

This is a sidebar, but honestly, how PC can you get? Holiday Tree? The very name is ridiculous.

[RabbiKnife]

How about a Festivusfortherestofus Tree?

[threebigrocks]

I'd just not participate and not worry about it. Enjoy the pretty lights, and worship the King!

[taddy]

Thank you for your replies. I guess that you are right. Private property, private rules. I like Jangar's response.

JANGAR: "When you go to this decorating party, you should wear the most outspoken religious CHRISTMAS shirt or hat that you can find:lol:. You should also encourage your neighbors (who are in agreement) to do the same:idea:. While you are there, don't forget to say plenty of MERRY CHRISTMASES:D."


TADDY

[jangar]

I like the candy cane idea. You could also bring some candy cane tracts which you can get at your Christian bookstore.
The rules say you can't put anything religious on the tree, but they didn't say you couldn't put it in their hands!:rolleyes:

If you are refering to the LEGEND about the Indiana candy maker who wanted to represent Christ. Three small red strpies = Trinity
Large red stripe = blood of Jesus, white= purity of Christ. That story is NOT true according to www.snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com).

go to www.snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com)
scroll down to holidays, click it
scroll down to Christmas, click it
scroll down to candy cane, click it.

Sorry Taddy. Didn't mean to get off track.

I did some research. Your complex is private property. They can make whatever rules they want regarding community property and events. They can not, however tell you how to decorate your rented area. Your area includes your apartment, your door (inside and out) and windows (inside and out).



I like what Lyndie said.

Lyndie:I'm wondering why they are doing it in the first place, it it can't have anything "Christmas" on it. Kind of like the stores who want you to buy thier stuff but won't say Merry Christmas. You could hang a big banner out your window saying Merry Christmas.


Merry CHRISTmas from Jangar

[ServantofTruth]

I just want to say i know how you feel. We all continue to feel pain over many things 'this world' does all year round. I pray that our Lord will strengthen you and continue to use you to glorify his name. Your heart is visable to us, and must be visable to those you meet in the flesh. I believe our Lord is pleased with your witness in his name. Love SofTy.

[sapphire904]

I agree with cnw on this one - this may be the greatest oppurtunity to witness to a bunch of people who don't even know about Jesus. So, I'd go and put an ornament on the tree (since it doesn't even represent Christmas or Jesus, it shouldn't be a problem) and tell people the good news while you're doing it!! :pp

[Lee-Roy]

i'd go ahead and decorate the tree. Makes sense to make your complex pretty ;)

[karenoka27]

If you are refering to the LEGEND about the Indiana candy maker who wanted to represent Christ. Three small red strpies = Trinity
Large red stripe = blood of Jesus, white= purity of Christ. That story is NOT true according to www.snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com).

go to www.snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com)
scroll down to holidays, click it
scroll down to Christmas, click it
scroll down to candy cane, click it.

What difference does it make if it is "true" or not?
I have used the candy cane story in teaching children about Jesus Christ. Whoever and however it was made up...it works!

I would still pass out the candy canes...where the meaning on your sweatshirt!

[Big T]

How sad, but it is private property. Let them be known as grinches. Put up something very tastefull and beautiful on the outside of YOUR apartment.

Just get a piece of plastic and write on it... "This is my holiday tree ornament. Please do not confuse it with an ornament that you would hang on a different tree that celebrates Dec. 25th."

[jangar]

Hey Tad,

I hope your Christmas is well. I hope you still participated in the ornament event and that it went for you.

God Bless. Jangar

[taddy]

Thank you. Everything went well at the event.

I found out something interesting.

If an apartment manager holds an event in the property office or other community property he/she represents the owner of the property. If he/she were to hold the same event in his/her apartment, itt would be legally no different than if I held the event in mine. The manger, in his/her apartment, represents his/herself, and NOT the owners.

Taddy

[doubledcattle]

This is an example of what I was thinking about yesterday.

Time and time again now days we see groups rising up that are not Christian. These people will not get in trouble for anything, but let a Christian stand up for what they believe in and here comes the government.

One example I was thinking about yesterday was a kid somwhere at a school in America wore a shirt promoting satanism ?? but another kid wheres a shirt that says something about him loving Jesus. The Christian kid is asked to take off his shirt, he doesn't do it and gets expelled. In the mean time the satan shirt is still on the other kid and has never been asked to take it off.

This nation is in the pit and sinking deeper. We as Christians have to stop being silent and start a revolution. We need to stand up for what we believe in. If people condem us, beat us, laugh or mock us, take us to court then we know that the Bible tells us to be strong and rejoice in this because we are standing up for our God and he will give us all the words to say when this time comes.

So from me to you: LETS START A REVOLUTION

[taddy]

Thanks again for your responses. Christmas went well.

Taddy

[jangar]

Taddy,

I would like to clarify what a Community event in an apartment complex (or trailor park) is.

A community event is any event (Open to all residents) put on by the management on community property.

If a resident holds the same event (open to the community) INSIDE their private apartment or trailor than it is a private event. The managment would have no authority over this event.

JANGAR

[jangar]

I would like to rephrase the following statement:

"If a resident holds the same event (open to the community) INSIDE their private apartment or trailor than it is a private event. The managment would have no authority over this event".

It should read:
"If a resident holds the same event (open to the community) INSIDE their private apartment or trailor than it is a private event. Community event rules would not apply at this event and the managment would have no authority over this event".

Thanks, Jangar