Children and animal creulty

[Gypsy]

I'm not quite sure where to post this, so I'll start by getting the fella's opinion.
We are absolutly mortified. My new wife and I were woken up yeasterday morning by my new 7 year old stepson pounding on our door. He screamed "the cat is dead". My wife went out befor I did and sure enough he was holding a dead kitten. We've had to chastize him before for tourmenting our animals, but neither of us expected something like this would happen. At first he said that he had found it that way, but later admitted to my wife that he had killed it, was going to hide it outside, then only decided to come to us when he realized that it was too cold to go outside with out his shoes on.

I understand that we live on a homestead and that we are going to loose animals. It's not what concerns me so much as that this 7 year old boy took a kitten into his room, squeezed the life out of it and then sat down at the kitchen table and asked for a bowl of rice crispies! Not a bit of remorse. I love the kid like he was my own but don't want to ignore a sign that he might need help. I'm afraid his mama is too shocked and protective to see it. Am I over reacting? I talked to his guidance councelor at school today who said that he was going to get some advice from psych services about how serious this is.

Sorry for the downer post, but I really can use some advice. Google "Children and Animal Abuse" - there is some pretty horrifying stuff. I just want to do the right thing by God, our boy, my family and our animals. Has anyone else ever dealt with anything like this?

God Bless

[Buck shot]

WOW, this would confuse me too. I can't say i've ever been thru anything like that but I can tell you I prayin that our father gives ya some guidance.

Do you have a good Christian counselor in your area? Maybe your pastor would be someone to talk to also?

[tango]

I'm not a professional counsellor or anything, but this rings so many warning bells it's just not funny.

From what I can recall of things like abnormal psychology (I studied psychology to bachelor's degree level, although more years ago than I care to admit) a lot of disturbed folks start out hurting animals, then progress to hurting people. It sounds to me like some professional attention would be entirely in order, especially if your stepson regards killing a defenceless animal to be something utterly unremarkable.

[tt1106]

I am not a Psychiatrist, but I am in Police Administration. I agree with the others. I think it is important that you seek professional help, especially if it is not the first occurrence.
I think it is important to keep perspective and not Google anything. A mitigated reaction is definitely appropriate, but anything catastrophic may do more harm than good.

[MrAnteater]

There is something really upsetting the child and he is acting out.

I would seek help for him especially since he is abusing animals for pleasure or to get attention.

[parker]

Once you make it clear to the child that what he did was wrong it might be a good idea to keep your "listening cap" on firmly (Maybe strap it in place!) and find out what his reasoning was and what his feelings are.

I am reminded of George in the story "Of Mice and Men."

[RedBird777]

From what I know about child psychology, children who grow up either extremely violent start out hurting animals when they are VERY young. Right now, your child, for whatever reason, is probably enjoying killing this cat. It is the enjoyment and excitement and his "high" on hurting the cat that gets him going. Usually, it turns out to hurt others to get a better rush when an abusive child grows up.
I HIGHLY recommend seeing a child psychologist before things get WAY too out of hand.

[renthead188]

I'm not quite sure where to post this, so I'll start by getting the fella's opinion.
We are absolutly mortified. My new wife and I were woken up yeasterday morning by my new 7 year old stepson pounding on our door. He screamed "the cat is dead". My wife went out befor I did and sure enough he was holding a dead kitten. We've had to chastize him before for tourmenting our animals, but neither of us expected something like this would happen. At first he said that he had found it that way, but later admitted to my wife that he had killed it, was going to hide it outside, then only decided to come to us when he realized that it was too cold to go outside with out his shoes on.

I understand that we live on a homestead and that we are going to loose animals. It's not what concerns me so much as that this 7 year old boy took a kitten into his room, squeezed the life out of it and then sat down at the kitchen table and asked for a bowl of rice crispies! Not a bit of remorse. I love the kid like he was my own but don't want to ignore a sign that he might need help. I'm afraid his mama is too shocked and protective to see it. Am I over reacting? I talked to his guidance councelor at school today who said that he was going to get some advice from psych services about how serious this is.

Sorry for the downer post, but I really can use some advice. Google "Children and Animal Abuse" - there is some pretty horrifying stuff. I just want to do the right thing by God, our boy, my family and our animals. Has anyone else ever dealt with anything like this?

God Bless

I'm about to graduate with a bachelors in psych (concentration in children's development) and from what I've learned, your concern is valid. The behavior correlates with violence in later life.

Does the child understand that the cat is a living being, just as he is? This is important because it may very well be possilbe that the child doesn't recognize this. He may know it on a cognitive level (similar to how churchians will know that Jesus died for their sins) but not on an internal level (what Jesus calls us to know Him with) and this could explain the indifference to his actions.

As a child (about his age) I stepped on a lizard once after my grandfather had told me not to. I will never forget what he said to me "The lizard died because you wanted to have fun." From that moment on I regarded the lives of animals. Ensure that the child understands this at a heart level before becoming any more concerned.

If the child continues to engage in this behavior (especially with indifference) cognitive therapy may be helpful, ask your pastor to suggest a children's psychologist. Filter what the child is exposed to (ex. Sid From Toy Story had a tendency to mutilate things... this behavior could become attractive to children) and what the child interprets as acceptable. Exposure to violence in movies and video games share a direct negative correlation with reactions to actual exposure to violence.

[MikeAD]

How long have you been married?

PM me if need be but maybe some counseling with all three of you (assuming that there are no other kids involved) is needed. Is his father around, or was he ever in the picture?

[Uriel]

If you would like I will ask my gf about this she works as a child therapist and just graduated from seminary with a Master in Counseling. She might be able to help or suggest a course of action along with the other guys that have posted.

[Walstib]

Brother, I don't have many words for you, just that this has been in my heart the last few days.

May our heavenly Father continue to guide your steps and grant you His peace in your heart.

Joe

[HisLeast]

My wife works as a speech language pathologist, and deals with kids who get psych evaluations all the time. Just recently she told me that "does the child hurt animals" is often the difference between further psych observation or none at all.

If I were in your shoes, I would definitely get help, be it from counselors or professional psych professionals.

In the meantime... this advice is solid. Time for a "man to man" I think.

I'll keep you in my prayers man.

[baxpack7]

When my oldest daughter was a little girl, she got a hold of a hamster that was a pet of my brother-in-law. Well, one thing led to another and she killed the hamster by squeezing the life out of it. She actually did it to another hamster after that as well. I'm of the opinion that there is nothing wrong with the child. Children who aren't used to having pets around tend to want to assert their will upon the pet and as a result try to control them. Perhaps the pet was trying to escape from the child's clutches, resulting in either the child dropping the animal, or squeezing the animal trying to keep it from escaping. Now, if the pattern continues, then perhaps you might seek professional help. By the way, my daughter is now married and over the years has had a few pets, including a dog, hamsters, ferrets and the like. She has never killed any of her pets.
I hope that you find these words comforting and useful and I pray that you have a God-blessed day!

[tango]

This was originally posted here inadvertently by a female member. With her permission, and since I'm of a more male persuasion, I'm reposting it because the points it raises are good ones:


I was thinking about this all day today off and on. You and your family have been on my heart.

Seems to me that the boy needs to be taught how to be a man. Your wife has reacted in a typically female protective way. (I can get away with saying that, because I'm a woman, and I know what we're like.) It's horrible to think that your child could do something like that... if it was my child I would probably be shocked and go into denial too.

But boys need men to show them how to behave, and it's important that you overrule your wife on this, if she insists on thinking there's nothing wrong with him. He needs you to show him that men (real men) take life seriously.

Praying for you.

[Clavicula_Nox]

I want to echo what many are already saying. First, the child might not understand the meaning of life and death, at that age, it's rather difficult to begin with. Taking the time to explain the significance of the kitten's death, emphasizing that the kitten was a unique life that will never be able to grow and avoid abstract concepts such as "THe kitten went away on vacation" or some other nonsense would probably be of help in this situation.

Another thing to be cognizant of is the possibility that the child has some form of disorder and is only aware of the needs of others insofar as they intersect their own. TO put it another way, if a tree that falls in the woods with no one around makes no sound, then a person who cries with no one around suffers no real disturbance or emotional distress.

I wouldn't necessarily jump the gun on this and immediately begin looking for an abnormal diagnosis, but I would say it's definiately something to be aware of when you deal with the situation and if it is a factor, then maybe it can be mitigated or treated before it has a chance to take hold and influence him to cause an extreme amount of damage.

I also want to echo what was posted by the female poster. Teaching the child about responsibility for ones actions and how to behave as an adult may be a silver lining to the situation.

[Gypsy]

Hello to all,
I though there may be some who would be interested in an update. Put simply the response from the school was that this was a private matter and that unless they could see that it was affecting (effecting? I never did understand that) him academically that they could not become involved. The guidance counselor was highly apologetic saying that he also thought that there was a serious need for intervention but that his hands were tied. He did say that he would be willing to council him, everyday if necessary, to whatever extent he was capable. He also referred us to Psychological Services which is something that is outside of the school system and with his referral we were able to get an appointment for an evaluation next Thursday. The evaluation is for our boy, but I intend to tell them that I view this as a family problem and ask about the possibility of family counseling. If this proves unhelpful my next steep will be to contact the University as has been suggested here. Beyond that it will be necessary for us to go the private route. By that point the Christmas break should be over (i.e. I will not need to stay home) and God willing I hope to be working.

I’ve been reading a lot about this RAD (Reactive Attachment Disorder), as has been suggested to me and it fits real close. I’m no doctor and I know that the internet is not always the best source of information, but when I go through a list of twenty five or thirty symptoms of this disorder, maybe only one or two don’t fit. (Developmental delays and lack of affection are the only two that don’t fit). It also fits into this family’s dynamic. The disorder, as I understand it, is characterized by the intense anxiety experienced by individuals who for whatever reason did not learn to form close attachment to others. The inability to do so is often traceable to abuse and/or neglect experienced very early in life and as such is abjectly rejected by my wife, but it is not always the case. One of the websites which I visited spoke about the normal process of developing attachment - that is a continuous cycle of "rupture" and "repair". It said that no matter how close and loving a relationship may be that there will always be disagreement (i.e. rupture) this is particularly true in the case of parent/child relationships wherein that rupture is both normative and required for development (e.g. you can not have cookies for dinner). The attachment is formed in the "repair" phase. That is to say that children (or anyone for that matter) must learn that rupture is a normal part of any relationship and to be expected, but they must also learn to trust that repair will follow - that is how trust is developed. If this cycle is disrupted or inconsistent that trust (that the repair will follow rupture) is not developed so the rupture becomes terrifying. My wife has suffered for a long time with Bipolar Affect Disorder, which is by definition inconsistent and may have by itself represented that disruption.
Like I said, I’m not a doctor and of course want to hear what the professionals have to say, but I am an expert in this family and would say that this theory is supported by my family’s current dynamic. My wife does still recoil from any form of rupture. She will try to ignore behavior, even obviously inappropriate behavior, in the hopes that it will stop itself before requiring her intervention. When the behavior becomes so obtrusive as to force her hand she finally breaks and stops the behavior, but then either through guilt or anxiety, immediately wants to find repair. We have argued numerous times about the inconsistency that this represents to the boy. When she does intervene to stop the behavior, our boy’s anxiety is noticeable. He becomes overly upset - to the point where the end result of any punishment is the worry that he has somehow permanently destroyed Mama’s love for him not a reflection on the behavior itself. He becomes overly affectionate and helpful, trying to win back Mama’s love. I’ve seen this cycle countless times.

Thank you everyone for your advice, concern and prayers. They all mean so much. Please keep my family in your prayers. God’s love to each one of you.

[Uriel]

Hello to all,
I though there may be some who would be interested in an update. Put simply the response from the school was that this was a private matter and that unless they could see that it was affecting (effecting? I never did understand that) him academically that they could not become involved. The guidance counselor was highly apologetic saying that he also thought that there was a serious need for intervention but that his hands were tied. He did say that he would be willing to council him, everyday if necessary, to whatever extent he was capable. He also referred us to Psychological Services which is something that is outside of the school system and with his referral we were able to get an appointment for an evaluation next Thursday. The evaluation is for our boy, but I intend to tell them that I view this as a family problem and ask about the possibility of family counseling. If this proves unhelpful my next steep will be to contact the University as has been suggested here. Beyond that it will be necessary for us to go the private route. By that point the Christmas break should be over (i.e. I will not need to stay home) and God willing I hope to be working.

I’ve been reading a lot about this RAD (Reactive Attachment Disorder), as has been suggested to me and it fits real close. I’m no doctor and I know that the internet is not always the best source of information, but when I go through a list of twenty five or thirty symptoms of this disorder, maybe only one or two don’t fit. (Developmental delays and lack of affection are the only two that don’t fit). It also fits into this family’s dynamic. The disorder, as I understand it, is characterized by the intense anxiety experienced by individuals who for whatever reason did not learn to form close attachment to others. The inability to do so is often traceable to abuse and/or neglect experienced very early in life and as such is abjectly rejected by my wife, but it is not always the case. One of the websites which I visited spoke about the normal process of developing attachment - that is a continuous cycle of "rupture" and "repair". It said that no matter how close and loving a relationship may be that there will always be disagreement (i.e. rupture) this is particularly true in the case of parent/child relationships wherein that rupture is both normative and required for development (e.g. you can not have cookies for dinner). The attachment is formed in the "repair" phase. That is to say that children (or anyone for that matter) must learn that rupture is a normal part of any relationship and to be expected, but they must also learn to trust that repair will follow - that is how trust is developed. If this cycle is disrupted or inconsistent that trust (that the repair will follow rupture) is not developed so the rupture becomes terrifying. My wife has suffered for a long time with Bipolar Affect Disorder, which is by definition inconsistent and may have by itself represented that disruption.
Like I said, I’m not a doctor and of course want to hear what the professionals have to say, but I am an expert in this family and would say that this theory is supported by my family’s current dynamic. My wife does still recoil from any form of rupture. She will try to ignore behavior, even obviously inappropriate behavior, in the hopes that it will stop itself before requiring her intervention. When the behavior becomes so obtrusive as to force her hand she finally breaks and stops the behavior, but then either through guilt or anxiety, immediately wants to find repair. We have argued numerous times about the inconsistency that this represents to the boy. When she does intervene to stop the behavior, our boy’s anxiety is noticeable. He becomes overly upset - to the point where the end result of any punishment is the worry that he has somehow permanently destroyed Mama’s love for him not a reflection on the behavior itself. He becomes overly affectionate and helpful, trying to win back Mama’s love. I’ve seen this cycle countless times.

Thank you everyone for your advice, concern and prayers. They all mean so much. Please keep my family in your prayers. God’s love to each one of you.

Ok this is what my girlfriend the child therapist says (NOT A CLINICAL DIAGNOSIS, JUST HER OPINION):

Personally, as frustrating as the school's response may be, they're right. They can't get involved in something like that that happens outside school. No one from school witnessed the incident, so they cannot deal with it there. Whether that is right or wrong, it is simply the fact of liability. :/

Family counseling is a great idea. My girlfriend works with school-age kids and the kids who make the most progress are the ones who's families are involved in the therapy too. Very few problems w/kids happen in a vacuum...not to say that it is always the parents' fault. Sometimes it is parenting problems, sometimes it isn't.

As for RAD, it is a somewhat controversial diagnosis outside school systems. My girlfriend just did a course on attachment theory/disorders this past semester and many researchers/theorists (Zeanah, Zilberstein, to name a few) believe RAD is a somewhat bogus diagnosis. According to attachment theory, RAD is a poor rendering of the theory into a diagnostic category. It is difficult to diagnose and even more difficult to treat (based on the diagnostic criteria). Attachment theory originated with John Bowlby's work and has been continued by Mary Ainsworth and Mary Main, most notably. In its most basic form, attachment theory states that attachments form based on the availability of a primary caregiver (typically the mother) to provide for the needs of an infant. There is such a thing as being too available as well as not available enough. Insecure attachments (anxious, avoidant or disorganized styles) do not always arise from abuse or neglect, those are only the extreme cases. A child from a seemingly loving family may have attachment issues. I'm sure we can all think of a spoiled rotten kid who has difficulty getting along with others because his/her parents were always TOO available. If you're looking for a good overview of the theory, try Bowlby's A Secure Base. She doesn't recommend reading it all, but several of the chapters offer good information, particularly the first two.

In any case, something like killing a kitten w/no signs of remorse might fit better with Conduct Disorder. That may be a difficult diagnosis to get, because CD is rarely diagnosed in children under 10, though there is a Childhood-Onset specifier. However, it does have criteria for physical cruel to animals/people. Other criteria include bullying, initiating physical fights, fire-setting, deliberate destruction of property, theft, lying to get stuff, running away, etc. Only three of the fifteen criteria have to be present within the last twelve months with only one within the last six months. It also has to cause impairment in social, academic or occupational funcitoning (home, school, friends, etc.). It might be something to have checked out. Because attachment is so pervasive across settings, it is quite typical that something like CD have co-morbid attachment issues. In fact, it is almost necessitated by the criterion for impairment in social, academic or occupational functioning.

As stated before, THIS IS NOT DIAGNOSTIC. She does not know this child and is not saying any of this as the child's therapist. This is all based on what has been posted and she has made some assumptions. She is offering her professional opinion, but it is only an opinion. She strongly recommends keeping the appointment set up for the child, asking for family therapy and following the recommendations of the therapist you see. Her three biggest pieces of advice in order to have successful therapy are: 1) always be honest with yourself and your therapist; 2) be open to facing the hard stuff (change often hurts) and to whatever the therapist might suggest; and 3) if something sounds really wrong/off the wall, trust your instincts (back to the be honest w/your therapist again)...therapists are not alway right.

[parker]

Hello to all,
I though there may be some who would be interested in an update. Put simply the response from the school was that this was a private matter and that unless they could see that it was affecting (effecting? I never did understand that) him academically that they could not become involved. The guidance counselor was highly apologetic saying that he also thought that there was a serious need for intervention but that his hands were tied. He did say that he would be willing to council him, everyday if necessary, to whatever extent he was capable. He also referred us to Psychological Services which is something that is outside of the school system and with his referral we were able to get an appointment for an evaluation next Thursday. The evaluation is for our boy, but I intend to tell them that I view this as a family problem and ask about the possibility of family counseling. If this proves unhelpful my next steep will be to contact the University as has been suggested here. Beyond that it will be necessary for us to go the private route. By that point the Christmas break should be over (i.e. I will not need to stay home) and God willing I hope to be working.

I’ve been reading a lot about this RAD (Reactive Attachment Disorder), as has been suggested to me and it fits real close. I’m no doctor and I know that the internet is not always the best source of information, but when I go through a list of twenty five or thirty symptoms of this disorder, maybe only one or two don’t fit. (Developmental delays and lack of affection are the only two that don’t fit). It also fits into this family’s dynamic. The disorder, as I understand it, is characterized by the intense anxiety experienced by individuals who for whatever reason did not learn to form close attachment to others. The inability to do so is often traceable to abuse and/or neglect experienced very early in life and as such is abjectly rejected by my wife, but it is not always the case. One of the websites which I visited spoke about the normal process of developing attachment - that is a continuous cycle of "rupture" and "repair". It said that no matter how close and loving a relationship may be that there will always be disagreement (i.e. rupture) this is particularly true in the case of parent/child relationships wherein that rupture is both normative and required for development (e.g. you can not have cookies for dinner). The attachment is formed in the "repair" phase. That is to say that children (or anyone for that matter) must learn that rupture is a normal part of any relationship and to be expected, but they must also learn to trust that repair will follow - that is how trust is developed. If this cycle is disrupted or inconsistent that trust (that the repair will follow rupture) is not developed so the rupture becomes terrifying. My wife has suffered for a long time with Bipolar Affect Disorder, which is by definition inconsistent and may have by itself represented that disruption.
Like I said, I’m not a doctor and of course want to hear what the professionals have to say, but I am an expert in this family and would say that this theory is supported by my family’s current dynamic. My wife does still recoil from any form of rupture. She will try to ignore behavior, even obviously inappropriate behavior, in the hopes that it will stop itself before requiring her intervention. When the behavior becomes so obtrusive as to force her hand she finally breaks and stops the behavior, but then either through guilt or anxiety, immediately wants to find repair. We have argued numerous times about the inconsistency that this represents to the boy. When she does intervene to stop the behavior, our boy’s anxiety is noticeable. He becomes overly upset - to the point where the end result of any punishment is the worry that he has somehow permanently destroyed Mama’s love for him not a reflection on the behavior itself. He becomes overly affectionate and helpful, trying to win back Mama’s love. I’ve seen this cycle countless times.

Thank you everyone for your advice, concern and prayers. They all mean so much. Please keep my family in your prayers. God’s love to each one of you.

Dear Gypsy,

I think your wife and the boy are lucky to have you in the home.
Everyone sounds like they are struggling and I am gladdened that you are being pro-active (rather than "reactive) in this troublesome situation. Your patience and problem-solving in what you are obviously doing at home is evident by the time you've taken to share this on this message board.

Me and my wife are holding you all in our hearts.