m****rb*tion

[libb]

I do this once a week 1 day prior to having sex with my wife, It is almost like a chore, I only have thoughts about my wife when I do this, and I only do this so that I will last long enough to satisfy her, I dont do this I am too quick and leave her unsatisfied, I just can seem to think that this is wrong to do, looking for some advise.

[9Marksfan]

I think this is possibly one of the rare instances where it isn't sinful. One question - does your wife know you do this and is she OK with it, knowing why you do it? (Guess that was kinda two questions!)

[newdaddy1223]

maybe explore other ways of satisfying your wife

[libb]

I think this is possibly one of the rare instances where it isn't sinful. One question - does your wife know you do this and is she OK with it, knowing why you do it? (Guess that was kinda two questions!)


Yes she knows, She has no problem with it

[9Marksfan]

Yes she knows, She has no problem with it

I don't think you should have a problem with it either - you're aiming to please your wife, which is biblical (1 Cor 7:33).

[libb]

thanks for the replys

[tt1106]

I would say it is sinful. In thinking of the design of God. God made man and woman to be one union. The end result of that union was so man would know woman and they would be together and join their DNA producing offspring, thereby populating the Earth.
I hate to say this, but when you start to think about this as strictly a pleasure issue, I think you are really cheapening what God gives us.
God uses the words To Know, in Genesis. Adam and Eve know each other and she conceives.
God gave us the ability to enjoy sex, I believe, so we would enjoy our spouses and KNOW them.
Enjoying pleasure separately, is just wrong in my opinion. Granted, prior to my being saved, I'd say I "enjoyed myself" several times a day for many years.
I also believe that self-control is a fruit of the spirit. I personally think that you should explore other ways to give her an orgasm and pray about it together.

This is only my opinion.

Blessings Brother.

[amazzin]

Sorry to break the news to you all but masturbation is self-gratification. No matter the reason why, the simple fact that it is pleasurable means you are robbing both yourself and your wife of the full experience.

[Gulah Papyrus]

Sorry to break the news to you all but masturbation is self-gratification. No matter the reason why, the simple fact that it is pleasurable means you are robbing both yourself and your wife of the full experience.Amazzin, what if she was willing to do it for him? Would that take the 'self' out of the self-gratifacation?

Libb, for what it's worth, I think that the sin that is usually committed with 'self-gratifacation' comes from the fantasy aspect of it. Sin is a matter of the heart. If you really do use it as a means to an end, with the end being to satisfy your wife, I don't think it is sin. On the other hand, if you fantasize about someone else, or about something that you wouldn't want your wife to know about, then it's a problem...would anyone agree, or am I way off on this?

[9Marksfan]

Amazzin, what if she was willing to do it for him? Would that take the 'self' out of the self-gratifacation?

Libb, for what it's worth, I think that the sin that is usually committed with 'self-gratifacation' comes from the fantasy aspect of it. Sin is a matter of the heart. If you really do use it as a means to an end, with the end being to satisfy your wife, I don't think it is sin. On the other hand, if you fantasize about someone else, or about something that you wouldn't want your wife to know about, then it's a problem...would anyone agree, or am I way off on this?

I agree. And I think if it's as occasional as you say, then that IS self-control - you are controlling it, it's not controlling you. There's plenty of fantasy in Song of Solomon so, when it's about our spouse, I don't think it's sinful at all. And if the aim is to ENSURE the wife gets "the full experience", then I see that as a noble, selfless and loving act.

[9Marksfan]

I would say it is sinful.

Do you have a clear Scripture for that? I don't see that lusting after one's wife is sinful and she's OK with him doing it.

In thinking of the design of God. God made man and woman to be one union. The end result of that union was so man would know woman and they would be together and join their DNA producing offspring, thereby populating the Earth.

Correct as far as it goes.

I hate to say this, but when you start to think about this as strictly a pleasure issue, I think you are really cheapening what God gives us.

On the contrary - who made it pleasureable? And who determines whether children result from it? EVERY time? Of course not! So when procreation doesn't happen, is it somehow SINFUL because it's pleasureable?

Have you read Song of Solomon?

God uses the words To Know, in Genesis. Adam and Eve know each other and she conceives.
God gave us the ability to enjoy sex, I believe, so we would enjoy our spouses and KNOW them.

Agreed - but if you take that in such a strict way, I think YOU are cheapenng God's gift.

Enjoying pleasure separately, is just wrong in my opinion.

Yes - in your opinion - do you have any Scripture to back this up? And the husband here IS enjoying his wife - in his mind - keeping the flame bright, so to speak - and what he is doing is intended to bring her greater pleasure when they are together - I really don't see what's wrong with that.

Granted, prior to my being saved, I'd say I "enjoyed myself" several times a day for many years.

That was sinful because it involved lust - and a complete lack of self-control. Several times a day?!?! Man, you sure were addicted!

I also believe that self-control is a fruit of the spirit.

Of course - but self-control doesn't always mean self-denial.

I personally think that you should explore other ways to give her an orgasm and pray about it together.

This is only my opinion.

Fair enough - but that would be to deprive her of "normal" sex and would actually make it the very thing you're advocating against! Pleasureable sex with no possibility of procreation!!!!

Blessings Brother.

And to you!

[tt1106]

I am not advocating that sex is strictly for procreation. I am advocating that sex is a mutually satisfying connection between a husband and wife that results in a more intimate relationship and God willing(or not), children.
I haven't seen specific scripture, but I see it as selfish and beyond the purpose of the action to take and pleasure yourself for the purpose of pleasuring her.
Since it's being posted here, I have to wonder how well the strategy is working and whether or not the person is "right" with it.
I believe that if the person is not comfortable, they are probably thinking about it, perhaps even during sexual intercourse, which might be counter-productive.
I am suggesting that sharing the burden of the perceived problem with your spouse and working together for a solution will be much more gratifying than creating a ritual wherein you fantasize about your wife(hopefully your mind won't stray, especially considering the billions spent on advertising of half naked women on TV) and bring yourself pleasure, in order to reach the end result of bringing her pleasure.
I don't have scripture other than the creation story about what god wants that interaction to be. I LOVE the song of Solomon. Thank God for it, so we can enjoy intimacy with our spouses.

[Gregg]

I would say it is sinful. In thinking of the design of God. God made man and woman to be one union. The end result of that union was so man would know woman and they would be together and join their DNA producing offspring, thereby populating the Earth.
I hate to say this, but when you start to think about this as strictly a pleasure issue, I think you are really cheapening what God gives us.
God uses the words To Know, in Genesis. Adam and Eve know each other and she conceives.
God gave us the ability to enjoy sex, I believe, so we would enjoy our spouses and KNOW them.
Enjoying pleasure separately, is just wrong in my opinion. Granted, prior to my being saved, I'd say I "enjoyed myself" several times a day for many years.
I also believe that self-control is a fruit of the spirit. I personally think that you should explore other ways to give her an orgasm and pray about it together.

This is only my opinion.

Blessings Brother.

And yet He recommends marriage to control burning lust. It seems to me that desire is a marriage gift from God.

[tt1106]

And yet He recommends marriage to control burning lust. It seems to me that desire is a marriage gift from God.

Is there something we disagree on here?

[Pilgrimtozion]

The fact that you ask the question itself makes me wonder whether the Holy Spirit is not convicting you about it. As far as I am concerned, your sexuality was made for your wife and your wife only. From a human perspective, I understand your dilemma. On the other hand, however, sexuality was never made for you alone, by yourself. That very fact makes masturbation wrong, no matter what the underlying motivation. In my opinion, you would be far better off finding a different solution to this problem. Amazzin said it very well when he said that masturbation is self-gratification and as such, simply not Biblical and a sin.

[Dragonfighter1]

The fact that you ask the question itself makes me wonder whether the Holy Spirit is not convicting you about it. As far as I am concerned, your sexuality was made for your wife and your wife only. From a human perspective, I understand your dilemma. On the other hand, however, sexuality was never made for you alone, by yourself. That very fact makes masturbation wrong, no matter what the underlying motivation. In my opinion, you would be far better off finding a different solution to this problem. Amazzin said it very well when he said that masturbation is self-gratification and as such, simply not Biblical and a sin.
Pilgrim, Amazzin,
point of clarification please. You both know me well enough now NOT to take this as baiting you...
paraphrasing you: "self-gratification is not Biblical and is a sin"
Can you explain a little more... By way of explaining my question to you consider this: Chocolate is pleasurable, I eat it, and obviously its isn't sin. In other words not all self pleasure is sin so how do we determine the line in the sand.

On the other hand (I know poor choice of words).... if his wife 'asked' him to do it so that their mutual pleasure the next day will meet her needs,..... Are we implying that in order to avoid the sin of displeasing his wife on day-two (A greater sin), he is 'permitted' sinning on day-one(lesser sin).
The greater sin- lesser sin wording was to make a point ...I already know that all sin is sin.

Finally, maybe they could learn to mutually do this the day before for each other and learn about each other for the enrichment of their marriage...

[Pilgrimtozion]

The main issue as far as I'm concerned is not the definition of self-gratification but the purpose of sexuality in the first place. Whereas chocolate was made to be eaten and enjoyed by one individual, sexuality was made to be shared by a man and his wife for the purpose of pleasure and procreation. A man 'gratifying' himself outside of the relation with his wife is per definition a perversion of God's purpose for sexuality. Even if the motive, as in the above case, is not to gratify oneself, it still misses God's point for sexuality - it was made to take place between a husband and a wife in sexual intercourse.

[Dragonfighter1]

The main issue as far as I'm concerned is not the definition of self-gratification but the purpose of sexuality in the first place. Whereas chocolate was made to be eaten and enjoyed by one individual, sexuality was made to be shared by a man and his wife for the purpose of pleasure and procreation. A man 'gratifying' himself outside of the relation with his wife is per definition a perversion of God's purpose for sexuality. Even if the motive, as in the above case, is not to gratify oneself, it still misses God's point for sexuality - it was made to take place between a husband and a wife in sexual intercourse.
Point well made!

Any suggestions for him?
I recommend a professional Christian marriage counselor. I also recommend more frequent affection. Only once a week may be part of the problem...Every couple is different but it sounds like infrequent intimacy may be part of the issue
only a professional CHRISTIAN marriage counselor can advise them though.

[Scubadude]

I do this once a week 1 day prior to having sex with my wife, It is almost like a chore, I only have thoughts about my wife when I do this, and I only do this so that I will last long enough to satisfy her, I dont do this I am too quick and leave her unsatisfied, I just can seem to think that this is wrong to do, looking for some advise.

Buddy, if you have that kind of stamina, then, "I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!" (said while I bow and genuflect)

Controlling your ejaculation is something that can be controlled, over a time. If your wife is willing, there are techniques you can learn. Have you looked into any?

[JesusPhreak27]

I agree. And I think if it's as occasional as you say, then that IS self-control - you are controlling it, it's not controlling you. There's plenty of fantasy in Song of Solomon so, when it's about our spouse, I don't think it's sinful at all. And if the aim is to ENSURE the wife gets "the full experience", then I see that as a noble, selfless and loving act.

Wow....masturbation (in this context) is "noble, selfless and loving" even though it is performing a sexual act outside of the marriage bed?

Im confused as to your logic on this? Sex is to be shared between the husband and wife..... if there is an issue it is something they should work out together....

[Joe King]

You do know that you can lay with your wife more than once in the same session right? She should be understanding in this regard. Try to go for multiple times rather than one marathon session.

[Dravenhawk]

I know when I was married the x was not very interested in sex except for the week before her monthly cycle. the rest of the month having sexual relations with the x was like fighting the war and I felt lucky if I saw any sugar from mama for those three weeks and during that one week I was so angry at her for denying me for the three I didn't want anything to do with her.

Since the act of making love with the x was always a battle I found greater pleasure in self gratification. At first my thoughts had turned to scenerios where sex with the x was not a battle and was actually enjoyable. As our marriage turned into more arguing and strife I discovered internet porn and would pleasure myself without her entirely in mind body or spirit. As I have found out the mind is a fertile place for the seeds of satan to take root. and am harkened to the scripture that says we are to take every thought captive to avoid sin.

Dravenhawk

[Watchmen]

I do this once a week 1 day prior to having sex with my wife, It is almost like a chore, I only have thoughts about my wife when I do this, and I only do this so that I will last long enough to satisfy her, I dont do this I am too quick and leave her unsatisfied, I just can seem to think that this is wrong to do, looking for some advise.No it is not wrong as long as you do not think on anything except your wife.