Schoolyard bullies

[dljc]

Alright guys, I've got a question for you.

How would you advise a child on what to do about playground/schoolyard bullies?

I was taught when I was in school by my dad, that if you don't stand up to this bully you will be their target for most all of your life while in school. Mind you I'm not advocating violence, I'm asking how you would advise someone else with their child, to proceed in this?

EDIT: If you have scriptures please provide them. :)

[tt1106]

Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

I believe Jesus is telling the Disciples that there are appropriate times for you to use a sword.

In Exodus, the Law speaks of killing a thief breaking into your home.

The Bible is full of violence, some condemned by God and some supported.
I believe the circumstances may warrant a time to fight and a time not to fight, such as where Jesus tells Peter to put up his sword. (and not discard it)

[HankZ]

I have told my children, the first thing they need to do is pray for this other kid. In almost every situation like this the kid is screaming out for attention. This does not excuse their actions, but it gives a better understanding if you know this "bully" is really hurting inside and needs Jesus as much as everyone else. Second, I told them to inform a teacher outside of the usual. In other words, not when someone will over hear and tell the bully. Last, teach them how to defend themself and get away. The point of this is not to maim and prove who's tougher, just kick him in the shin or stomp on his foot and run like crazy. My daughter was getting bullied by a couple kids at school. It finally came to a head when one boy held her down while the other kicked her between the legs repeatedly, that is when I stepped in. I made a statement that this principal was now informed of a very serious situation and would be held personnally responsible for any future pain incured by my daughter. Through this, my daughter has gotten much more self confident in defending herself. I also am having her start karate lessons with a christian friend of mine. The most important thing you can do is pray with your child and pray for your child. Stay on top of things by asking everyday if there was anything that happened 'today' and call the school if there was and document it.

Romans 12:19 (New American Standard Bible)


19 Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord.

[HisLeast]

I was bullied at the end of elementary and all through Jr high school. Its probably one of the most profound influences on who I am today, and not in a good way.

I remember getting on the bus every day, feeling like I was going to wet myself, just praying that today I'd be looked over, or that he'd just be satisfied with a shove. I remember the terror of waiting... like a burning liquid in my gut. I remember the shame of pleading like a damned fool to be left alone. Even offering money, items from my lunch, whatever. But no matter how far they pushed, I never lashed out. There was a mental wall block there. A fear of that a fight would be too much pain and would be an ineffective defense.

That experience created three dynamics in my personality that I've gone so far as to seek therapy for
1) Self loathing: Because of the shame of doing nothing to defend myself, and debasing myself utterly in hopes of soliciting mercy.
2) Revenge fantasies: Became a central part of my imagination. Significant parts of my day were dedicated to fantasies of retribution for people who wronged me later in life.
3) Resolute anger: The kind of anger that just doesn't go away. It just eats at your insides like termites through wood. If someone wronged me, I wasn't angry at the offense, I was angry at the offense PLUS the years of bullying PLUS interest.

I know the futility of wishing "if I could do it all over", but if there is one thing about my past I could change... I would fight. I would fight like a cornered animal. I would fight like there was nothing else to lose. I would fight as though they intended to burn me alive. I would fight and show them the strength and endurance that springs from terror, fear, and shame compressed over time and continue to pour it out until the flesh peeled off my knuckes and I had naught to defend myself but a bloody tangle of crippled fingers. Even if they beat me within an inch of my life, I would fight.

It is my everlasting shame that I played such a coward's role in my youth. That I nearly soiled my pants in fear of a fight. That I was unmanned before I reached manhood.

We each must make our own decisions, but my children will know how to fight. They will know how to take a punch, and they'll know how to end an engagement swiftly and with cruelty. They will know that their dignity is worth a knock-down-drag-out brawl if it comes to it.

[HankZ]

I was bullied at the end of elementary and all through Jr high school. Its probably one of the most profound influences on who I am today, and not in a good way.

I remember getting on the bus every day, feeling like I was going to wet myself, just praying that today I'd be looked over, or that he'd just be satisfied with a shove. I remember the terror of waiting... like a burning liquid in my gut. I remember the shame of pleading like a damned fool to be left alone. Even offering money, items from my lunch, whatever. But no matter how far they pushed, I never lashed out. There was a mental wall block there. A fear of that a fight would be too much pain and would be an ineffective defense.

That experience created two dynamics in my personality that I've gone so far as to seek therapy for
1) Self loathing: Because of the shame of doing nothing to defend myself, and debasing myself utterly in hopes of soliciting mercy.
2) Revenge fantasies: Became a central part of my imagination. Significant parts of my day were dedicated to fantasies of retribution for people who wronged me later in life.
3) Resolute anger: The kind of anger that just doesn't go away. It just eats at your insides like termites through wood. If someone wronged me, I wasn't angry at the offense, I was angry at the offense PLUS the years of bullying PLUS interest.

I know the futility of wishing "if I could do it all over", but if there is one thing about my past I could change... I would fight. I would fight like a cornered animal. I would fight like there was nothing else to lose. I would fight as though they intended to burn me alive. I would fight and show them the strength and endurance that springs from terror, fear, and shame compressed over time and continue to pour it out until the flesh peeled off my knuckes and I had naught to defend myself but a bloody tangle of crippled fingers. Even if they beat me within an inch of my life, I would fight.

It is my everlasting shame that I played such a coward's role in my youth. That I nearly soiled my pants in fear of a fight. That I was unmanned before I reached manhood.

We each must make our own decisions, but my children will know how to fight. They will know how to take a punch, and they'll know how to end an engagement swiftly and with cruelty. They will know that their dignity is worth a knock-down-drag-out brawl if it comes to it.

Can you support this type of action with scripture? If not then this goes well beyond self protection and into the realms of vengeance. While you may be able to get away with this sort of act legally, we as christians are held to a much higher standard of selfcontrol and will answer to God for not only our actions, but also what we have instilled into our children.

[HisLeast]

Can you support this type of action with scripture?
People routinely justify and condemn each others' actions with every manner of interpretation of scriptures. Which interpretation would you like? I did my duty in praying for these people even while I was being terrorized. I even looked for opportunities to be helpful to them. And when they laid hands on me, I wasn't taking lumps for Jesus sake. They weren't terrorizing me because I loved Jesus, they were terrorizing me because I was a damned pansy about it, and it entertained them to watch me beg.

God teaches us to love each other for more than one reason. Not only do we treat people fairly because it pleases Him, but there's a certain practicality to treating people well. It pays not to terrorize people because sooner or later one of them isn't going to take it and will kindly flatten one's nose in exchange. Those who, like me, beg and sing like a castrati only encourage those who find pleasure in the torture of others. Perhaps if I had drawn a line in the sand and stood for justice and honor, maybe one or two of these monsters would have reconsidered their bestial ways.

If not then this goes well beyond self protection and into the realms of vengeance. While you may be able to get away with this sort of act legally, we as christians are held to a much higher standard of selfcontrol and will answer to God for not only our actions, but also what we have instilled into our children.
I'll take that risk. I'd rather my kid stand up for themselves in grade school in a recess brawl both kids will walk away from, rather than suffer years under constant mental terrorism and rape of spirit. Then learn to my horror that years of that kind of torture made them snap, and they couldn't stem the tide of the built up rage and shame, and something horrible happened.

[tango]

I was bullied at school by a guy who used to turn most of the class against whoever was in his sights. For a time I was in his sights, until on one occasion I decided to fight back. Because it was me against a group of about 20 I grabbed a chair, which was the only available weapon to even the odds, and held the group at bay with the chair. The ringleader figured I was bluffing (after all, nobody would stand up to the class bully, right?), came at me anyway, and it nearly cost him his sight.

That's not necessarily a very Scriptural way of going about things (to be clear, I wasn't a Christian at the time) but it solved the problem almost instantly. The others who were following this ringleader soon figured out that it could very easily have been them on the receiving end and, because I'd been willing to stand and fight (and clearly gotten away with it) they saw the ringleader wasn't invincible and started to back me against him.

I'd always been taught not to fight, which restrained me from fighting back for some time. When I did finally fight back it was because of that something snapping inside, at which point my rage had become so intense it was truly frightening (on one other occasion it took three 18-year-olds to restrain me, when I was 13, and even then they could barely hold me back).

So on that basis I would certainly say that the best course of action is something far more controlled, that will let the bully know that their target isn't going to be an easy target, but to take action before the rage builds up into something that could so easily become deadly.

It's almost universal that the bully is hurting themselves, but trying to negotiate with them and help them from a position of perceived greater weakness never seems to work. From their perspective, if you have reduced yourself to nothing in front of them why should they listen to you? But from a position of perceived strength over them, perhaps they will listen, especially if you have gained a position where you could dominate them but instead choose to help them.

[Pilgrimtozion]

I don't think striking back is the answer - even if it takes care of some of the rage. I as bullied in school because I had red hair, but I was also raised in a loving Christian home. Whatever outsiders did to me, I always found love and affection at home. My parents taught me not to strike back but to pray for them and bless them. This did wonders for my attitude towards the kids (it's hard to get bitter towards those you bless on a daily basis), though it often did not solve the problems. My parents took it up with school authorities if it continued. One time that did not stop things, so my dad threatened to go to the paper and expose the school's lousy way of dealing with bullies. That certainly did take care of it. They took the problem seriously, dealt with the students, and I was never teased after that!

How can fighting be the answer when Jesus teaches us to turn the other cheek - even if fighting back does 'work'?

[Scubadude]

Alright guys, I've got a question for you.

How would you advise a child on what to do about playground/schoolyard bullies?

I was taught when I was in school by my dad, that if you don't stand up to this bully you will be their target for most all of your life while in school. Mind you I'm not advocating violence, I'm asking how you would advise someone else with their child, to proceed in this?

EDIT: If you have scriptures please provide them. :)

Not having any children, this is not coming from experience. But, I have been a child before, so hear goes....

The choice depends more on what the child will think of himself. I've met some very mature youngsters who have a strong community, where they were fine not physically defending themselves and did better trying to settle matters through talking, running away, or having parents get involved.

But, I think if all else fails, clock 'um in Jesus name! ;)

[Gulah Papyrus]

I was somewhat of bully in grade school...until some kid popped me...my advice, and I know this probably isn't the most Christian response, but punch him right in the nose. Hit him first, and hit him hard...he will not bother you again. Now, once you get up in years this method can backfire, but in grade school it's money in the bank.

Remember what happened to Skut Farkus?

http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/blog/dill.jpg

[Buck shot]

Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

27 Neither give place to the devil.

28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. {to give: or, to distribute}

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

I think we can stop bad things from happening without sinning. Just as we can get angry without sinning. I taught my son and daughter to defend themselves but not to start anything.

From verse 26 here, I don't think it is very good for us to get angry and not take care of it before that night.

[Gulah Papyrus]

Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

27 Neither give place to the devil.

28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. {to give: or, to distribute}

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

I think we can stop bad things from happening without sinning. Just as we can get angry without sinning. I taught my son and daughter to defend themselves but not to start anything.

From verse 26 here, I don't think it is very good for us to get angry and not take care of it before that night.

Wouldn't you consider the constant bullying 'starting something'?

[teddyv]

My wife in high school sucker-punched the boy who was bullying her. That worked.

There are, I think, variations of the bully. Some just seem to enjoy seeing how far they can push you to the point you fnally push back. I had this with a guy I worked with who would needle me in different ways. Finally I got annoyed enough that a food fight broke out. We didn't actually fist fight. After that we were OK - I think he just wanted to see if I would stand up for myself.

[Biastai]

Is the student able to defend himself? No one should be told to take a punch if he doesn't have to. Using force for defensive or disabling purposes seems to be ok with me. Don't press the attack after the bully backs off...that sort of thing. Most bullies are actually cowards, and this usually will put a quick end to the problem. I'm sorry I can't offer more peaceful alternatives. When I was a kid, I took this approach (well, I pressed the attack a few times I guess :spin:), and I truly can't say I would've done it differently had I gone back and relived it.

[Xel'Naga]

Was never bullied in grade school but in High school there was one guy in particular (and his group) who were after me because I was a blatantly obvious practicing Christian - ergo, I'd take anything and not hit back. Well, the first time he came at my physically (I put up with a lot before this) he found himself on the ground quite fast, doubled in pain (I'm not a fighter in the least). Wasn't harassed by anyone in all my years of high school after that.

Do I endorse violence? No. Is it the only answer? Some times, but I'd like to think the majority of the time, no. I did what was necessary to stop what was happening. I didn't provoke it and I didn't use it as an excuse to pummel him.

[tango]

Wouldn't you consider the constant bullying 'starting something'?

The constant bullying is definitely starting something, but the victim isn't starting anything at all. The victim just wants to be left alone. I wouldn't consider making clear to the bully that you're not going to just lie down and take whatever they dish out to be starting anything.

[dljc]

Thanks guys for your inputs on this topic. :)

I guess you could say I was double cursed. I had a brother on either side of me a year and a half difference in age. So I got the "hand me downs" and then I got those from below that were trying to make a name for themselves. :rolleyes:

Jesus told us two things, go the extra mile, and turn the other cheek. He never said we couldn't defend ourselves to my knowledge. But never return evil for evil. (Romans 12:17)

I agree with what has been said about bullies that they are basically cowards or are hurting/angry. There can be those who are driven by pride too though. I don't believe it's wrong to defend yourself, as long as that is what it is, self defense. Otherwise you are just a doormat for everyone to walk on especially the bully in your life.

One time in Sunday School I asked all the ladies if they respected a man who allowed them to walk all over him. You can probably imagine there was a resounding "no". I believe it was an honest answer from the ladies. So keep that in mind. A woman wants a strong man who will defend her (and your kids) with his life if necessary. But she wants one that won't let her walk all over him too. You are her knight in shining armor. She's going to hope you know what that means.

[Buck shot]

Wouldn't you consider the constant bullying 'starting something'?

In my opinion (mine, not necessarily God's) if you stop the bully when he starts, there will not be a constant bully :P