Am I married according to the bible?

[bluejay_04]

This is two questions in one.

My boyfriend and I got married a few weeks ago at a chapel by an ordained minister. We got the marriage liscense signed and all that. Our minister left it up to us to turn it into the courthouse and a few days after we got married we got into a VERY heated argument that ended in me tearing the liscense up. He claims that since we were married under God we are married I too agree with this to an extent, but I know God wants us to follow the laws of the land, so I'm not sure.
My next question is, since we got "married" anytime we get into an argument he walks out on me and talks about leaving me for a good while until I learn to act EXACTLY like a Godly wife. I told him that we need to divorce since in his mind and in mine (somewhat) we're married, because anytime we are faced with any kind of conflict he leaves. But he won't divorce me unless I committ adultry and he tells me if I do committ adultry, I will always be looked at as an adultress in God's eyes. Any suggestions on what I should do?? I really would appreciate any advice. Thank you!

[Xel'Naga]

Well, since I'm young I'll say you're married and leave the rest of the question up to others.

[ServantofTruth]

Are you looking for the legal of this world answer? Are you looking for the biblical 'legalist' answer? Or are you looking for the on your knees at the foot of the cross answer?

I can't answer the question of whether your marrage is legal in the country you live, because you haven't taken the certificate to the authorities.

Some will say you are married as soon as you sleep with another person. More will obviously say you are married because an ordained minister of our Lord God married you.

But if you both want to act like bible believing Christians my suggestion is get into conversation with our Lord (prayer)and start reading his Word, the bible.

If your husband doesn't know how to act like a Godly husband, it is highly unlikely he knows what a Godly wife should act like! Has he read Proverbs chapter 31 for example lately (which just happens to be in my daily reading later today) Perhaps you could also read Romans chapter 14 together?

It certainly sounds like you both like quoting scriptures without knowing the context. :cry: You see a get out clause from this marriage by quoting Romans chapter 13 - obeying the law of the country you live in. Boy does this show you need to read the bible more!

He talks about divorce only if you have a sexual affair. Imature or what! Does he have a relationship with Jesus or know for example the Sermon on the Mount?

You both sound very young and new in faith. Do you have a church/ body of believers to fellowship with? Do you have a bible study group? Do you have a minister or church authority to discuss questions/ problems with?

Or are you both doing things your way? If you were in a good church, had close christian friends they would not tolerate either of you taking marriage so lightly or using the Word of God with such obvious contempt.

My advice is get on your knees and pour our this problem to our Lord, firstly alone. Then pick up your bible and read and ask our Lord to lead you. I'd suggest starting in Matthew's gospel chapter 5. (not chapter 1)

Then ask your husband if he will pray with you and read the bible with you. And if you think he'll laugh at this idea, then you are doubting the power of God! My wife is a non believer, has no interest in Christianity, but has read the whole New Testament. She also supports me doing daily bible reading with our children and taking them to church, even when we are argueing badly.

I use to not understand why? Then it clicked. It's the power of God in my family. SofTy.

[daughter]

If your husband is telling you to commit adultery so he can divorce you... then God would look at him as a pimp. He's not being a loving husband to you at all.

The Bible does give advice for women on how to be loving wives... but men are told to love their wives as Christ loved the church. A man like that is easy to love and be obedient to.

Did you argue with your husband before the marriage? It sounds like there's so much else that we can't really help you online. You need local Christian counsel... but also, you need to sit down together and read the scriptures about marriage together.

You shouldn't use the Scriptures to beat each other with either... pray over them.

If he won't do this with you, then you could do what I did before my husband was a Christian, and pray over them yourself.

I have a good Christian friend who endured over a year of psychological bullying from her husband when she became Christian. She memorised the verses about a biblical marriage, bit her tongue, and any time she felt like screaming at her husband, or arguing, she would bite her tongue, and ask God to help her.

Their marriage survived, and so can yours... if you trust God.

Pray for your husband, don't hate him. After all, you loved him enough to marry him.

[th1bill]

This is two questions in one.

My boyfriend and I got married a few weeks ago at a chapel by an ordained minister. We got the marriage liscense signed and all that. Our minister left it up to us to turn it into the courthouse and a few days after we got married we got into a VERY heated argument that ended in me tearing the liscense up. He claims that since we were married under God we are married I too agree with this to an extent, but I know God wants us to follow the laws of the land, so I'm not sure.
My next question is, since we got "married" anytime we get into an argument he walks out on me and talks about leaving me for a good while until I learn to act EXACTLY like a Godly wife. I told him that we need to divorce since in his mind and in mine (somewhat) we're married, because anytime we are faced with any kind of conflict he leaves. But he won't divorce me unless I committ adultry and he tells me if I do committ adultry, I will always be looked at as an adultress in God's eyes. Any suggestions on what I should do?? I really would appreciate any advice. Thank you!
... Go to a minister and get the premarital counciling that you should have gotten before the marriage.

[cnw]

Yes you are married, in both Gods eyes and the states. The minister still has to report it and You both went to the alter in agreement.
It sounds like you both need serious counseling jsut as people It would do you both good to find a pastor who loves the Lord and preaches the gospel to help you.
This board is not going to be able to give you answers because the story is one sided.
May God bless you with a wise counselor who loves God and wants to help your marriage become a success.

[revrobor]

As one who has performed marriages I can tell you that if you did not register your marriage with the county clerk you are not civilly married and do not have the protection the state law provides. As far as the civil law is concerned you do not need a divorce because you are not recognized as married. As far as God is concerned if you made your vows before Him and you are convinced He brought you two together then He recognizes you as married. However, from what you say in your post I personally have serious doubt that He told you two to marry.

[th1bill]

As one who has performed marriages I can tell you that if you did not register your marriage with the county clerk you are not civilly married and do not have the protection the state law provides. As far as the civil law is concerned you do not need a divorce because you are not recognized as married. As far as God is concerned if you made your vows before Him and you are convinced He brought you two together then He recognizes you as married. However, from what you say in your post I personally have serious doubt that He told you two to marry.
... I'm not trying to pick a fight but your advise will not hold up in many states. i.e. Here in Texas if a man signs into a motel with a woman as Mr. & Mrs. they are legally bound as being in the state of Common Law Marriage. There are stricter and there are looser laws in different states but I always go with the conservative side of this issue to remain out of trouble. As for them being married in God's eyes, they are! (See Isaac and Rebeka, Adam and Eve and Cain and his wife.)

[revrobor]

... I'm not trying to pick a fight but your advise will not hold up in many states. i.e. Here in Texas if a man signs into a motel with a woman as Mr. & Mrs. they are legally bound as being in the state of Common Law Marriage. There are stricter and there are looser laws in different states but I always go with the conservative side of this issue to remain out of trouble. As for them being married in God's eyes, they are! (See Isaac and Rebeka, Adam and Eve and Cain and his wife.)

Most states require a couple to cohabitate for seven years to be considered involved in a common law marriage.

[ServantofTruth]

I was thinking about the original poster and her husband this morning. May we all be in prayer today for them both. SofTy.

[Cloudwalker]

I just did a bit of online resurch. This comes from the official website for Tarrent County Texas (for those who are curious Tarrent county is where Ft. Worth is located). Here (http://www.co.travis.tx.us/dro/common_law.asp)is the link for those who wish to look. The website says.

<H4>Q: What makes a common law marriage?


A: Three elements must be present to form a common law marriage in Texas.
First, you must have "agreed to be married."
Second, you must have "held yourselves out" as husband and wife. You must have represented to others that you were married to each other. As an example of this, you may have introduced you partner socially as "my husband," or you may have filed a joint income tax return.
Third, you must have lived together in this state as husband and wife.

</H4>In Bills example registering in a hotel may consevably be construed as filling the second element (not sure that would hold up but it is concevable if the other 2 elements are also present)

Only a few states recognize Common Law marriages. (In Tx. they are actually called informal marriages.) Texas' laws seem to be more relaxed in this area than what I saw from other states in my short search.

[bluejay_04]

Thank you all for your words and PRAYERS (which is definitely needed). I have always been a Christian but I was not a "good" Christian. He found God when he was 16 (he is now 25) and I am 23. He still labels himself has a baby christian but he is very in tune with God and has a very strong relationship with him as well. I on the other hand classify myself as a newborn christian, my walk with God is growing stronger everyday. I try not to throw scriptures in his face but it makes it kinda hard when he CONSTANTLY does that to me. Him and I are very familiar with Probverbs 31 and that's the woman I desire to be and that's the woman he wants me to be NOW. I feel like I'm getting there but anytime I slip, and I disobey him (I.E. I wanted to see my parents today since I haven't seen them in awhile and he told me I couldn't....BTW we're fixing to move out of state in a couple of days so I won't be able to see them for a long while.....and so I left to go see them anyways and now he has walked out on me again). I feel like he is very controlling but he says that he is just going by what God's will is for us. Is that right? I find it hard to believe that it's not in God's will for me to visit with my parents or better yet, I wanted to buy my son some spring clothes yesterday and he said no because that's not in God's will for us to spend money on him some clothes, and I find that hard to believe too. We are involved in a GREAT church and I have thought about marriage counselling (sp?) with our pastor but I haven't mentioned that to him yet, but I have decided that I will, so hopefully that will help us. Thanks again!! God Bless!

[ServantofTruth]

Do you both have the same bible as me ?????

You husband is very in tune with God! I am trying to take this seriously, but that is just so obviously wrong.

You personally need to get into the bible alone and ask the Spirit to guide.

If your church teaches/ condones that men can act like your husband then you need a new church too. But often we hear what we want to hear, and only show our good side to others at church - so the church may actually be excellent?

9 years of faith, has shown very little growth in your husband, if what you post is true. Yes he is right, he's still a baby Christian.

Please can you post what you and your husband believe Proverbs 31 woman is. Did she constantly argue and walk out, critise and throw scripture? From what you write, it looks like your husband wants to control your life in a very negative way - certainly not 'love you as Christ loves us.'

The thinking is just so confused. Both you and your husband. If you told me that you both found faith yesterday, I'd believe you!

You need the basics. To read the bible and ask the Spirit to guide you every time. Because even if you think you know a little or a lot, everything you say shows you don't.

Why after 9 years would your husband call himself a baby Christian. At just a chapter a day, he'd have read the whole bible 3 times by now. With just once a week church attendance he'd have heard over 450 bible talks/ sermons by ministers of God.

Praying just once a day for one thing or person that's 4,000 prayers. Any bible group would have shared fellowship, Spirit sharing of the scriptures.

So to be baby Christians shows no need for the basics of bible reading, prayer, fellowship, praise/ worship, group bible study.

Do you believe you have the Holy Spirit yourself and that your husband does? If so follow the guidance He (the Spirit) gives.

SofTy.

[bluejay_04]

Excuse me for being frank.....but why is everyone acting as though we're not Christians and don't have the slightest clue on how a christian marriage is supposed to be? I will admitt neither him, nor myself have ever been married so yes, we are unaware on how a perfect christian marriage is supposed to be like. I know I am trying to be the best wife God has ordained me to be. I will say, I am human, and I am new to marriage and how to be a Godly wife and I do make mistakes time to time. He on the other hand feels like I am holding him back in his walk with Christ because I have not been completely obedient towards his demands. We both read the bible nightly and study it together. We also pray everymorning together in toungues (so yes we are both spirit filled).....And to answer servantoftruth's answer, his interpretation of Proverbs 31 is exactly how it is written, my interpretation however is that a woman takes very good of her household and never lets it fall. She is meek and non-argumentative, her husband has the upmost trust in her that she can buy a field (or house) without even consulting him because he has nothing but trust for her. Her duties are very important and she aims to please her husband first and others around her. I have another question.....what does God think of seperation? I personally think that he frowns upon that. What are your thoughts?

[ServantofTruth]

I think that everyone who accepts Jesus Christ into their heart and mind, comes from a different upbringing, birth and culture. Every one of us brings baggage and error in our thinking - I know I do.

I'm unable to speak in toungues and have only had an infant baptism in the Anglican church. Also confirmation at 10. Perhaps I'll have a full emersion believers baptism soon? :) However many Christians friends old and new, are pleased to accept my biblical advice, whichever denomination they come from.

Perhaps your husband has a similar feeling to me - although my wife is a non believer, we met before I came to Christ.

I sometimes feel that I want to go to a service, or a coffee morning, visit someone in need or deliver tracts/ Christian leaflets - there is so much work that needs doing locally to me/ and so many Christians I want to meet in so many churches and just be with and share/ fellowship, praise and worship our Lord Christ Jesus - but I have a wife and 5 sons and there has to be balance.

My wife thinks I go out too much, I think that I don't go out enough. Today for example, I've just stayed in all day and I've been steam cleaning the kitchen floor. I've showed her that I love her and she is important, like God's work is important, and part of my work is to show my wife that I love her in small ways.

I don't know. The internet is not the easiest place, to get the whole picture and then advise. Know that all I want is the best for you and the best for him. Could you cook a special meal and ask him to just watch a film on tv with you tonight? Tell him just a couple of hours together is so important to you?

I appologise if I totally missed the mark. I know that I need you and everyone on this site as much as the other way round. May you soon bless me, by correcting my thinking and encourage me to more love and understanding in Christ's name. SofTy.

[bluejay_04]

I think that everyone who accepts Jesus Christ into their heart and mind, comes from a different upbringing, birth and culture. Every one of us brings baggage and error in our thinking - I know I do.

I'm unable to speak in toungues and have only had an infant baptism in the Anglican church. Also confirmation at 10. Perhaps I'll have a full emersion believers baptism soon? :) However many Christians friends old and new, are pleased to accept my biblical advice, whichever denomination they come from.

Perhaps your husband has a similar feeling to me - although my wife is a non believer, we met before I came to Christ.

I sometimes feel that I want to go to a service, or a coffee morning, visit someone in need or deliver tracts/ Christian leaflets - there is so much work that needs doing locally to me/ and so many Christians I want to meet in so many churches and just be with and share/ fellowship, praise and worship our Lord Christ Jesus - but I have a wife and 5 sons and there has to be balance.

My wife thinks I go out too much, I think that I don't go out enough. Today for example, I've just stayed in all day and I've been steam cleaning the kitchen floor. I've showed her that I love her and she is important, like God's work is important, and part of my work is to show my wife that I love her in small ways.

I don't know. The internet is not the easiest place, to get the whole picture and then advise. Know that all I want is the best for you and the best for him. Could you cook a special meal and ask him to just watch a film on tv with you tonight? Tell him just a couple of hours together is so important to you?

I appologise if I totally missed the mark. I know that I need you and everyone on this site as much as the other way round. May you soon bless me, by correcting my thinking and encourage me to more love and understanding in Christ's name. SofTy.


No pun intended whatsoever. I really appreciate your sincere advice and wanting what is best for us. I would love to be able to cook him a nice dinner and watch a movie and etc., but he has left me once again over the fact that I disobeyed him by going to visit my parents. Please believe everyone....I AM a good wife. I'm always offering masssages and I'm always doing whatever I think will please him. Sometimes I feel as though he wants to control my ENTIRE life, but he says that he isn't trying to control me, but God tells him not to let me do certain things (which is EVERYTHING). I am absolutely serious, anytime there's something I want to do (I.E. buy my son an outfit) he tells me no and that it's not in God's will for us to do that. I honsetly think he is being very possesive and controlling and he's using God as his excuse for his behavior.

But God bless you for all you advice and help. And hopefully you get spirit filled ASAP, because speaking in toungues will do wonders on your life (which I'm sure you know). Please read this book my pastor wrote which gives great infromation on speaking in tongues and what it can do for your life. Thanks again and God Bless!!!!

http://www.daveroberson.org/images/icons/pdf.png The Walk of the Spirit-The Walk of Power Book (portrait) (http://www.daveroberson.org/books.aspx#) | (download) (javascript:__doPostBack('category$repSubCategorie s$ctl00$repFiles$ctl00$lnkDownload','')); Author: Dave Roberson
http://www.daveroberson.org/images/icons/pdf.png The Walk of the Spirit-The Walk of Power Book (landscape) (http://www.daveroberson.org/books.aspx#) | (download) (javascript:__doPostBack('category$repSubCategorie s$ctl00$repFiles$ctl01$lnkDownload','')); Author: Dave Roberson

[HisLeast]

Excuse me for being frank.....but why is everyone acting as though we're not Christians and don't have the slightest clue on how a christian marriage is supposed to be?

First, who said you weren't Christians? Nobody here doubts that.
You come describing some bad behavior, so don't expect people to be subtle in condemning it. The same was true for me when my porn habit reached a peak and nearly ruined my marriage. I'm a Christian, and my Christian brothers and sisters let me know in no uncertain terms that my actions were wrong and needed correction.

I will admitt neither him, nor myself have ever been married so yes, we are unaware on how a perfect christian marriage is supposed to be like. I know I am trying to be the best wife God has ordained me to be. I will say, I am human, and I am new to marriage and how to be a Godly wife and I do make mistakes time to time. He on the other hand feels like I am holding him back in his walk with Christ because I have not been completely obedient towards his demands. We both read the bible nightly and study it together. We also pray everymorning together in toungues (so yes we are both spirit filled).....And to answer servantoftruth's answer, his interpretation of Proverbs 31 is exactly how it is written, my interpretation however is that a woman takes very good of her household and never lets it fall. She is meek and non-argumentative, her husband has the upmost trust in her that she can buy a field (or house) without even consulting him because he has nothing but trust for her. Her duties are very important and she aims to please her husband first and others around her. I have another question.....what does God think of seperation? I personally think that he frowns upon that. What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that he's ignoring his role. The husband is to the marriage as Christ is to the church. Did anyone see Christ walking out the door when His disciples didn't follow orders? For that matter, how many times did Christ demand conformance from his disciples for conformance sake? How many times did he deny them things that were healthy for them?

Did he have any good reason at all to not let you visit your parents, or is he being selfish and possessive of you? Does that sound like the love Christ has for his church?

As far as being married goes, yes... you're married. You took your oaths before God, you've consummated (I'm assuming) and you've told the world you're married. But your marriage is some dire need of help, and unless it gets some, I think you're both in for a very long haul of unhappiness.

Some other things to consider:
1) Have you ever noticed that Proverbs 31 doesn't mention anything like "needs permission from her husband in all things" or "waits for husband to tell her what to do and when"? I don't see it anywhere. What I DO see is an assertive and trustworthy woman who works hard for her marriage.

2) Did you notice that the very first expectation laid out in Proverbs 31 is towards the husband? Proverbs 31: 11 The heart of her husband trusts in her.

3) 31: 17 She girds herself with strength And makes her arms strong. Is it strength to submit to a husband's folly, or to expect better of him?

4) 31:25 Strength and dignity are her clothing, And she smiles at the future. I would ask this man how he strengthens you and where your dignity is when you can't even visit your own parents.

5) 31:26 She opens her mouth in wisdom, And the teaching of kindness is on her tongue. If he's read Proverbs 31, he should consider himself warned to listen to you, and not dismiss your input as shirking your position as wife.

6) 31:31 Give her the product of her hands, And let her works praise her in the gates. What would your husband consider the product of your hands, and would he give it to you?

All in all, Proverbs 31 is about trustworthy and strong women. Not women who are submissive to small egos.

I don't know how you'd get him to see this, which is why I hope and pray he agrees to counseling. The marriage needs it desperately.

[bluejay_04]

Well comments like the following made me think that some of you doubt the fact that we are Christians:

But if you both want to act like bible believing Christians
The thinking is just so confused. Both you and your husband. If you told me that you both found faith yesterday, I'd believe you!


Maybe I was wrong for saying that, so I do apologize.

But thank you Hislest for the information you have provided. As of right now he is not speaking to me so I copy what you posted and emailed it to him. I'm really praying that maybe it will open his eyes and he'll realize that yes he is the leader of our household and but my opinions should be heard and I should be trusted to do anything I want. Oh and to answer your question about me going to my parents, he didn't want me to go because he said GOD told him it wasn't the right thing for me to do. Anyways, thanks again very much!

[revrobor]

Well comments like the following made me think that some of you doubt the fact that we are Christians:

But if you both want to act like bible believing Christians
The thinking is just so confused. Both you and your husband. If you told me that you both found faith yesterday, I'd believe you!


Maybe I was wrong for saying that, so I do apologize.

But thank you Hislest for the information you have provided. As of right now he is not speaking to me so I copy what you posted and emailed it to him. I'm really praying that maybe it will open his eyes and he'll realize that yes he is the leader of our household and but my opinions should be heard and I should be trusted to do anything I want. Oh and to answer your question about me going to my parents, he didn't want me to go because he said GOD told him it wasn't the right thing for me to do. Anyways, thanks again very much!

Well dear Sister, I have been following this thread and from what you have said I have come to the conclusion that your husband is very immature and is using God as an excuse to get his own way. He needs to follow the example of Jesus Christ and he won't find anywhere in Scripture Jesus behaving the way he is. Frankly, you both seem a little "wet behind the ears" and in desperate need of mature Biblical counseling. As Dr. Phil would say "How's that working for you". You are in my prayers.

[sunsetssplendor]

This is two questions in one.

My boyfriend and I got married a few weeks ago at a chapel by an ordained minister. We got the marriage liscense signed and all that. Our minister left it up to us to turn it into the courthouse and a few days after we got married we got into a VERY heated argument that ended in me tearing the liscense up. He claims that since we were married under God we are married I too agree with this to an extent, but I know God wants us to follow the laws of the land, so I'm not sure.
My next question is, since we got "married" anytime we get into an argument he walks out on me and talks about leaving me for a good while until I learn to act EXACTLY like a Godly wife. I told him that we need to divorce since in his mind and in mine (somewhat) we're married, because anytime we are faced with any kind of conflict he leaves. But he won't divorce me unless I committ adultry and he tells me if I do committ adultry, I will always be looked at as an adultress in God's eyes. Any suggestions on what I should do?? I really would appreciate any advice. Thank you!

You are married. Just because you tore it up doesn't void it out. I'm positive the pastor has a copy of it. Did you have pre-marital counseling? If not see if you can get it now b/c your marriage is already in trouble.

[tayariswife]

Well dear Sister, I have been following this thread and from what you have said I have come to the conclusion that your husband is very immature and is using God as an excuse to get his own way. He needs to follow the example of Jesus Christ and he won't find anywhere in Scripture Jesus behaving the way he is. Frankly, you both seem a little "wet behind the ears" and in desperate need of mature Biblical counseling. As Dr. Phil would say "How's that working for you". You are in my prayers.
I couldn't have said it better. You are his wife, not his doormat. In addidtion, I can't help but to mention that it gives me the heebi-jeebies with the "God told me it's not in His will for you" stuff....

[shepherdsword]

I always like to hear both sides of the story before pointing the finger at the other person.

[bluejay_04]

First, who said you weren't Christians? Nobody here doubts that.
You come describing some bad behavior, so don't expect people to be subtle in condemning it. The same was true for me when my porn habit reached a peak and nearly ruined my marriage. I'm a Christian, and my Christian brothers and sisters let me know in no uncertain terms that my actions were wrong and needed correction.



My thoughts are that he's ignoring his role. The husband is to the marriage as Christ is to the church. Did anyone see Christ walking out the door when His disciples didn't follow orders? For that matter, how many times did Christ demand conformance from his disciples for conformance sake? How many times did he deny them things that were healthy for them?

Did he have any good reason at all to not let you visit your parents, or is he being selfish and possessive of you? Does that sound like the love Christ has for his church?

As far as being married goes, yes... you're married. You took your oaths before God, you've consummated (I'm assuming) and you've told the world you're married. But your marriage is some dire need of help, and unless it gets some, I think you're both in for a very long haul of unhappiness.

Some other things to consider:
1) Have you ever noticed that Proverbs 31 doesn't mention anything like "needs permission from her husband in all things" or "waits for husband to tell her what to do and when"? I don't see it anywhere. What I DO see is an assertive and trustworthy woman who works hard for her marriage.

2) Did you notice that the very first expectation laid out in Proverbs 31 is towards the husband? Proverbs 31: 11 The heart of her husband trusts in her.

3) 31: 17 She girds herself with strength And makes her arms strong. Is it strength to submit to a husband's folly, or to expect better of him?

4) 31:25 Strength and dignity are her clothing, And she smiles at the future. I would ask this man how he strengthens you and where your dignity is when you can't even visit your own parents.

5) 31:26 She opens her mouth in wisdom, And the teaching of kindness is on her tongue. If he's read Proverbs 31, he should consider himself warned to listen to you, and not dismiss your input as shirking your position as wife.

6) 31:31 Give her the product of her hands, And let her works praise her in the gates. What would your husband consider the product of your hands, and would he give it to you?

All in all, Proverbs 31 is about trustworthy and strong women. Not women who are submissive to small egos.

I don't know how you'd get him to see this, which is why I hope and pray he agrees to counseling. The marriage needs it desperately.


Sorry it took me so long to respond....but I sent the message above to him via myspace and I think it may have gotten through to him. We are currently seeking counsling from out pastor and things are going very well. Thank you all again for you advice and input!

[JesusMySavior]

Sorry it took me so long to respond....but I sent the message above to him via myspace and I think it may have gotten through to him. We are currently seeking counsling from out pastor and things are going very well. Thank you all again for you advice and input!

Hi friend,


I really do pray that your marriage survives and that God can bring you both through these tough and questionable times.

I can't say anything else because everything else has been said already. Just keep pressing into God, and when your hubby throws condeming things at you, take the good with the bad, throw out the guilt and shame, and put on the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am broken hearted when I hear of men who have such caring wives that treat them so horribly. My friend debbie makes almost everything from scratch yet her husband doesn't appreciate one bit of it, it seems. It's just amazing. :(

Keep fighting the good fight dear sister. :)

[His Bride]

Well, I'm just jumping in here after reading the thread. I've been married for almost 30 years. I was not a Christian when we were married, but was saved a few years later. Both of us brought baggage into our relationship and made a mess of things, but because of the Lord and His faithfulness we maintained our marriage and grew as Christians and as a married couple. That said, what I would advise is for both of you to be discipled by mature Christians, separately, for at least a year. You also need pre- marital counseling. You are both extremely young and have so much to benefit from mature Christians in your lives. Do it now, before you make more mistakes that could have serious consequences. The advice that some have given you here is excellent and should be taken to heart.

[Quickened]

Without directly addressing anything posted here i would recommend the two of you read through and study Wayne Mack's Strengthing Your Marriage.

You both will learn from it and be blessed.

You can get it used at amazon for under $2.00. There is a wealth of knowledge to glean

[bluejay_04]

Well, I'm just jumping in here after reading the thread. I've been married for almost 30 years. I was not a Christian when we were married, but was saved a few years later. Both of us brought baggage into our relationship and made a mess of things, but because of the Lord and His faithfulness we maintained our marriage and grew as Christians and as a married couple. That said, what I would advise is for both of you to be discipled by mature Christians, separately, for at least a year. You also need pre- marital counseling. You are both extremely young and have so much to benefit from mature Christians in your lives. Do it now, before you make more mistakes that could have serious consequences. The advice that some have given you here is excellent and should be taken to heart.


We've been seperated for two weeks now and we went to counsling with our minister twice. We see each other a couple days out of the week and CANNOT go TWO hours without a fight. It's terrible, I thought that after the first counsling session, things could work out, but we just keep going back to square 1. I posted a question regarding taking medicine in the "New in Christ" forum, because I'm struggling with anxiety and he WILL NOT allow me to take my medicine for it. It's like he is trying to CONTROL every aspect in my life, even my HEALTH! I really don't know if this is something I can handle, because he is VERY hard headed and doesn't believe he is the problem in this marriage, it's ALL ME! I received private prayer from my pastor this morning regarding direction in my marriage and afterwards, I felt ALOT of peace about getting a divorce. So I think unfortunately, that's where our marriage is leading up to....

[Quickened]

We've been seperated for two weeks now and we went to counsling with our minister twice. We see each other a couple days out of the week and CANNOT go TWO hours without a fight. It's terrible, I thought that after the first counsling session, things could work out, but we just keep going back to square 1. I posted a question regarding taking medicine in the "New in Christ" forum, because I'm struggling with anxiety and he WILL NOT allow me to take my medicine for it. It's like he is trying to CONTROL every aspect in my life, even my HEALTH! I really don't know if this is something I can handle, because he is VERY hard headed and doesn't believe he is the problem in this marriage, it's ALL ME! I received private prayer from my pastor this morning regarding direction in my marriage and afterwards, I felt ALOT of peace about getting a divorce. So I think unfortunately, that's where our marriage is leading up to....

Unless I missed something here I dont see any grounds for a biblical divorce. :hmm:

[His Bride]

We've been seperated for two weeks now and we went to counsling with our minister twice. We see each other a couple days out of the week and CANNOT go TWO hours without a fight. It's terrible, I thought that after the first counsling session, things could work out, but we just keep going back to square 1. I posted a question regarding taking medicine in the "New in Christ" forum, because I'm struggling with anxiety and he WILL NOT allow me to take my medicine for it. It's like he is trying to CONTROL every aspect in my life, even my HEALTH! I really don't know if this is something I can handle, because he is VERY hard headed and doesn't believe he is the problem in this marriage, it's ALL ME! I received private prayer from my pastor this morning regarding direction in my marriage and afterwards, I felt ALOT of peace about getting a divorce. So I think unfortunately, that's where our marriage is leading up to....

I can appreciate all of your struggles, bluejay. That's why I think you both need some counseling and discipling, both separately and together. Please be very careful in the future.

[bluejay_04]

Unless I missed something here I dont see any grounds for a biblical divorce. :hmm:


I know that in the bible it does not state that "abuse" is not grounds for divorce, but is it or isn't it? Not only do I receive verbal abuse from him, but I feel as though he is trying to jeoprodize my health by taking my medicine away (and the medicine I'm on, if stopped taking all of a sudden can cause seizures and COULD be fatal). And he knows all of this. I could be wrong, but I don't feel that God wants me to be in a abusive marriage and BTW...he just gave me a phone call saying he wants a divorce as well.

[Quickened]

Why exactly did you two get married?

I find it odd that after two weeks into the marriage you were ready to call it quits. Remember you were the one that tore up the marriage certificate.

During the course of 1 month and 2 days that this thread has been active you have recieved some good responses from Christians that want you to have a good Godly marriage.


On march 27th you posted
Sorry it took me so long to respond....but I sent the message above to him via myspace and I think it may have gotten through to him. We are currently seeking counsling from out pastor and things are going very well. Thank you all again for you advice and input!

And now two days later you have peace about getting a divorce?

You really need some solid biblical counciling. You shouldnt just give up because things arent favorable to you. You started this thread explaining that you gave up by tearing up that certificate before going to the court house as if there is some sort of spiritual loop hole that you can have an easy exit and God wont hold you accountable for your actions.

Its time for you to really consider the severity of such hasty decisions. If you claim to be a Christian then take into consideration God's Word. Direct disobedience would be taking his grace for granted and thats never a wise decision.

Rethink your divorce idea because i doubt that peace you felt was from God. I think that was just you reassuring yourself that you were justified in ending this union.

Pray hard and tread lightly.

[BCF]

It is from examples of Marriage like this one.....that I do not believe that God has Ordained every Marrage that there is. It is also from these same examples that I do not believe that God is the one who puts all Marriages together....as is taught in the Church today.

From what I have read in this post by the OP....The OP has made themselves very clear that it definitly could not have been God who put this Marriage together. Why? B/c no where in scripture will we find that God put two people together to make one flesh...just so they can fight and get a divorce.

Are these two married in God's eyes.....No. Are these two people married in the eyes of man....maybe. But one thing I do know.....they were not married by God.

Marriage under the eyes of God or Ordained by God....is a Marriage that is centered completely around God for His Glory. It is more serious then the next breath that we take. This is not the case in this Marriage.

God Bless,

Dave

[bluejay_04]

Why exactly did you two get married?

I find it odd that after two weeks into the marriage you were ready to call it quits. Remember you were the one that tore up the marriage certificate.

During the course of 1 month and 2 days that this thread has been active you have recieved some good responses from Christians that want you to have a good Godly marriage.


On march 27th you posted


And now two days later you have peace about getting a divorce?

You really need some solid biblical counciling. You shouldnt just give up because things arent favorable to you. You started this thread explaining that you gave up by tearing up that certificate before going to the court house as if there is some sort of spiritual loop hole that you can have an easy exit and God wont hold you accountable for your actions.

Its time for you to really consider the severity of such hasty decisions. If you claim to be a Christian then take into consideration God's Word. Direct disobedience would be taking his grace for granted and thats never a wise decision.

Rethink your divorce idea because i doubt that peace you felt was from God. I think that was just you reassuring yourself that you were justified in ending this union.

Pray hard and tread lightly.


The reason I married him was because we were living together "in sin" and that didn't sit well with me and we were already acting as if we were married, although we still had the problems I've stated while we were "Dating", but it's gotten worse. And I thought that if we got married, God would be in the center of our marriage and things would be different...BETTER! But it just got worse. He took this "Head of the Household" WAY overboard. I tore up the liscense because he TOLD me to. He was LITERALLY in my face for AT LEAST 20 minutes telling me to tear it up and I had it hidden because I didn't want HIM to tear it up and he kept looking for it and was yelling and demanding me to tell him where it was and to tear it up (this was at his aunt's house at 1:00 in the morning) so for the sake of ending the argument and letting his family go back to bed, I tore it up. I hurt me immediately when I did that, because I didn't want to.

I'm not saying that the peace I felt was from God, although it was a thought, I just don't know what else to do. I know giving up is the easier route, but this marriage is not just affecting me, it's affecting my parent's (who see the hell he puts me thru), HIMSELF, and MOST imprtantly, MY SON! I mean, just today we (my son, him, and myself) sat in the car for over TWO hours going back and forth over something VERY PETTY (he thought I had an attitude about something and I kept trying to tell him that I was just not feeling well). Now is this fair to ANYONE? I go thru this same scenario (sp?) ALL THE TIME! I don't want to just GIVE up that's why I'm doing the cousling, but I don't want to live in hell on earth either. I am very torn as to what I should do.....

[Quickened]

I appreciate that insight Nichole.

Tell me more about your husband. What kind of church does he attend? How long does he devote to scripture/prayer/etc? How about yourself

Did you have that Child with Him (I dont want to make assumptions)

[Quickened]

Basically your husband is making the mistake that many men are capable of making when they dont have a full understanding of scripture. Cherry picking verses results in this exact type of behavior.

It sounds like your husband is focused on the whole

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
Eph 5:24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.


Which shows the man as being the "leader". But what about the rest that follows it that shows him being the "lover".

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
Eph 5:26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
Eph 5:27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.


What kind of love is referenced? The same love that Christ has for the church. What seems not to be happening here is balance. He took the first part of these scriptures (it seems) and ran with it without reading on.

While we do see

Col 3:18 Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

we also see

Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them.


The woman biblically can submit because she knows that her husband has her best interest in mind. Her being submissive doesnt open the door for the man to be a dictator never taking her thoughts and feelings into consideration.

His concern should not be for himself but to meet the needs of others. Not selfishly have all of his needs met by a submissive drone of a wife. You were both made in the image of God. God made them man and woman. Again see Eph v.25. Christs full intentions were on the bride but at the same time that was full in line with the Father's will.

If he truly does treat you as you say then its not only dishonoring to you but also to God.

[bluejay_04]

I appreciate that insight Nichole.

Tell me more about your husband. What kind of church does he attend? How long does he devote to scripture/prayer/etc? How about yourself

Did you have that Child with Him (I dont want to make assumptions)


He began attending a church called "The Family Prayer Center" 8 years ago. He found God and got spiritually filled at the age of 16 while in jail (for something he did not do and his name is cleared). He was VERY devoted until he turned 21 I think, and he feel off a little (I.E. sleeping around with girls, living in the flesh hardcore). When I met him almost 2 years ago he was getting back into the word and was feeling alot of condemption(sp?)for how he had been living. After we began dating a couple of months he started slowly getting back into church and had me attend as well. I got spiritually filled at this church about 9 months ago. The church and the pastor are GREAT! During counsling my pastor pointed out to him that he is too dominating which is very immiture and said I was manipulating by threatening to leave and etc. when things don't work out my way. Anyways.....about 5 months ago, it was like God knocked him over the head and in just ONE day he changed....he stopped hanging around bad influences, he was reading the word more frequently, he stopped listening to certain music, and he now attends church every Sunday and sometimes Wednesday's.

Now about me.....my son is not his, however, his biological father is not in his life and John (my husband) as played the role of his father pretty well since we began dating. I've always considered myself a Christian and I would read the bible, time to time, but nothing big. Now I've gotten a collection of books to help me be more Godly (books by Joyce and Victoria Osteen), I read the word more, I pray in tongues daily, and I have goals of ministering to young women. I was raised in a "Christian" home, but the marriage set up between my parent's, was completely backwards. My mom ran the show pretty much and almost every women in my family is the "Head". So I've obtained some of their influences, which I'm constantly battling. I don't try to dominate him or anything, my biggest thing I battle with is Pride. Like when he tells me to do something like "Clean the house" my pride wants to kick in and say "If you want the house cleaned, you clean it!" but I've gotten better at holding my tongue and I think the thought of that even pops into my head because the way he says it. He NEVER asks me to do anything! He demands it, and when I ask him why he does that, he says because he is the man and he doesn't have to ASK his WIFE to do anything.

Now on your last post, you are EXACTLY on point. And I have recently pointed this out to him and he denies it, and justifies his actions like always. And me being pretty much brand new to the Word, and him having the biblical knowledge he has, it's easy for him to manipulate me by using biblical scriptures against me.

[bluejay_04]

Oh and I would like to add one more thing about him. Now I am not perfect by no means nor do I try to act as if I am. He on the other hand thinks the opposite. He say's that when he's in heaven he believes he will be sitting right next to Jesus and that he is the best person that has walked this earth, with the exeption of Jesus (Now he whole heartedly believes this). Now with that said, he was received a prophecy from our pastor some years ago and he told him that it was a good thing he became a Christian. Now John believes he said this because John's mind and Master Manipulation is SO powerful, he could be like Hitler if desired. He told me that before he became a Christian he had several thoughts and plans to rule over the world in an evil way. Scary huh?? Well...keep in mind this man tends to jump into his flesh time to time and when he does do that, he contradicts himself by saying he's NOT perfect YET! So just imagine what terrible things I hear and treatment I receive when he does jump into his flesh. And it's not only me he does this to...he does it to his co-workers when he doesn't get his way and he manipulates his friends "I think" subconsiously(sp?). I got me a hand full....but I believed if Christ could change ME as much as he ALREADY has, he could change him, but as I have said, he's only gotten worse.

[bluejay_04]

BTW....here's a link to my pastor's website if anyone would like to check it out:

http://www.daveroberson.org/index.aspx

[Quickened]

Oh and I would like to add one more thing about him. Now I am not perfect by no means nor do I try to act as if I am. He on the other hand thinks the opposite. He say's that when he's in heaven he believes he will be sitting right next to Jesus and that he is the best person that has walked this earth, with the exeption of Jesus (Now he whole heartedly believes this). Now with that said, he was received a prophecy from our pastor some years ago and he told him that it was a good thing he became a Christian. Now John believes he said this because John's mind and Master Manipulation is SO powerful, he could be like Hitler if desired. He told me that before he became a Christian he had several thoughts and plans to rule over the world in an evil way. Scary huh?? Well...keep in mind this man tends to jump into his flesh time to time and when he does do that, he contradicts himself by saying he's NOT perfect YET! So just imagine what terrible things I hear and treatment I receive when he does jump into his flesh. And it's not only me he does this to...he does it to his co-workers when he doesn't get his way and he manipulates his friends "I think" subconsiously(sp?). I got me a hand full....but I believed if Christ could change ME as much as he ALREADY has, he could change him, but as I have said, he's only gotten worse.

The people speaking to the Lord in Matthew 7:22 probably thought the same thing that i have bolded. But the result is 7:23.

My answers are based solely what you post here.

He began attending a church called "The Family Prayer Center" 8 years ago. He found God and got spiritually filled at the age of 16 while in jail (for something he did not do and his name is cleared). He was VERY devoted until he turned 21 I think, and he feel off a little (I.E. sleeping around with girls, living in the flesh hardcore). When I met him almost 2 years ago he was getting back into the word and was feeling alot of condemption(sp?)for how he had been living. After we began dating a couple of months he started slowly getting back into church and had me attend as well. I got spiritually filled at this church about 9 months ago. The church and the pastor are GREAT! During counsling my pastor pointed out to him that he is too dominating which is very immiture and said I was manipulating by threatening to leave and etc. when things don't work out my way. Anyways.....about 5 months ago, it was like God knocked him over the head and in just ONE day he changed....he stopped hanging around bad influences, he was reading the word more frequently, he stopped listening to certain music, and he now attends church every Sunday and sometimes Wednesday's.

People can feel compunction based on how they lived and still not be saved.

I'm not here to judge any person's spiritual state. Its quite obvious that only the Lord knows that. But the Lord gives us an oppurtunity to know a believer by their fruits. When you delve into the word more often you will learn more and more characteristics of things.

It is entirely possible for a person to feel guilt about a life style and make personal outward changes to fix things. It happens more than you would think. I am glad he stopped hanging around those bad influences!

But the music choice and even attending church more often isnt exactly fruit of the spirit. People can mechanically attend service or be compelled to "be religious". That "being religious" would just mimic whatever is dominant in your area. I see your from OK so that would be Christianity.

Its one thing to say you are something and its quite another to actually be that something. Do you see what i am getting at?

Are we not a new man in Christ? I wouldnt even constitute this behavior as being a man. But nichole I stand by my original statement. God has created a blueprint for marriage. It starts with the man and woman leaving their parents to be joined together (cleave) and become one flesh. Then it is mapped out from there.

You seeking advice gives me some inkling that you are somewhat Christ oriented. I see that you are young in the faith and you are a young woman.

I would like nothing more than to see a future post of yours saying that you both reconciled, are living for the Lord and putting Christ at the center of your marriage.

One of the keys of any relationship and a key to making marriage last is putting up with things. There are certain things which make us want to give up and as a society we have been conditioned to think that we can end marriage for a variety of reasons.

How soon we forget the "until death do us part". We are entering a lifetime convenant with our spouse before the eyes of God. While it seems in your first post that there may be a legal loophole because the court house wasnt involved you forget the ceremony preformed by an ordained minister before a Just and Holy God.

I know it may be tough but trust in the Lord whom you have made this commitment.

In all reality its been under a year.

Should you have rushed into all of this? Probably not but you dont need me telling you that you didnt make a wise decision. Who wants to hear that anyways? Besides... its not what i say or what my opinion is. Its what God's word says.

Continue to seek counciling for the time. If it is unsatisfactory where you are at... give us a general idea of where you are and i can almost guarentee you that with all of the people on this board we can point you to some Godly men and women to get you guys walking on the right track.

[bluejay_04]

The people speaking to the Lord in Matthew 7:22 probably thought the same thing that i have bolded. But the result is 7:23.

My answers are based solely what you post here.



People can feel compunction based on how they lived and still not be saved.

I'm not here to judge any person's spiritual state. Its quite obvious that only the Lord knows that. But the Lord gives us an oppurtunity to know a believer by their fruits. When you delve into the word more often you will learn more and more characteristics of things.

It is entirely possible for a person to feel guilt about a life style and make personal outward changes to fix things. It happens more than you would think. I am glad he stopped hanging around those bad influences!

But the music choice and even attending church more often isnt exactly fruit of the spirit. People can mechanically attend service or be compelled to "be religious". That "being religious" would just mimic whatever is dominant in your area. I see your from OK so that would be Christianity.

Its one thing to say you are something and its quite another to actually be that something. Do you see what i am getting at?

Are we not a new man in Christ? I wouldnt even constitute this behavior as being a man. But nichole I stand by my original statement. God has created a blueprint for marriage. It starts with the man and woman leaving their parents to be joined together (cleave) and become one flesh. Then it is mapped out from there.

You seeking advice gives me some inkling that you are somewhat Christ oriented. I see that you are young in the faith and you are a young woman.

I would like nothing more than to see a future post of yours saying that you both reconciled, are living for the Lord and putting Christ at the center of your marriage.

One of the keys of any relationship and a key to making marriage last is putting up with things. There are certain things which make us want to give up and as a society we have been conditioned to think that we can end marriage for a variety of reasons.

How soon we forget the "until death do us part". We are entering a lifetime convenant with our spouse before the eyes of God. While it seems in your first post that there may be a legal loophole because the court house wasnt involved you forget the ceremony preformed by an ordained minister before a Just and Holy God.

I know it may be tough but trust in the Lord whom you have made this commitment.

In all reality its been under a year.

Should you have rushed into all of this? Probably not but you dont need me telling you that you didnt make a wise decision. Who wants to hear that anyways? Besides... its not what i say or what my opinion is. Its what God's word says.

Continue to seek counciling for the time. If it is unsatisfactory where you are at... give us a general idea of where you are and i can almost guarentee you that with all of the people on this board we can point you to some Godly men and women to get you guys walking on the right track.

Thank you very much for your words and advice! I OBVIOUSLY battle with my own issues on being more Godly (if I didn't I probably wouldn't be on here asking for advice), so after re-reading this thread, I didn't mean to come on here to just bash on him and say I am COMPLETELY done with this marriage and I do everything right and he does everything wrong, because that is not the case. One of the things that REALLY irritates me about him is that he KNOWS the areas I need work on (I.E. Being submissive, throwing out my pride, and TRUST that every descison he makes is right and to follow him as his helpmate instead of a burden). So it feels like he likes to put me thru tests. For example, demanding me to do things, ANYTHING I ask for (like to buy my son an outfit or go to the store to pick up something, he ALWAYS tells me I can't). It's like he just sees how far he can push me until I BREAK into my flesh. Just like the incident today about me having an attitude...he kept pressing that I had one for literally two hours and I finally just BLEW UP. I still have alot of work to do on myself and he knows this, but instead of him helping me to get to the level I need to be at, he would rather push me and push me and then say "See, you can't be the Godly wife I need." And to be honest, that kinda discourages me...I feel like not even trying anymore, because everytime I try, he can break me down to my flesh again.

You know, since I began getting more into the word, I began admiring that Probverbs 31 woman, and I had it set in my mind that, that was who I was going to be. I received a prophecy about a month ago saying that I am that Probverbs 31 woman, and that encouraged me to be a better wife and mother and all over woman....but then John has his ways of breaking my spirit down. I know there's a way thru God to avoid letting him do this to me, but as you said, I am new in this walk so it makes it hard when he does those things to me.

And then....I have ALL of my family telling me he's crazy and I need to divorce him ASAP. And when they hear I'm trying to work things out with him I get the whole "That is so stupid thing. He's never going to change and etc." I am currently living with my parent's and my father told me this last time we seperated that if I EVER go back to him and something happens to where I need to come back home, I will not be allowed. And this is the only place my son and I have to go, so that scares me a bit, to take a chance and go back, and then nothing changes and I'm stuck with a man that treats me like a doormate.

Oh and he is back into praying a couple of hours a day, so I see he's trying to be more Godly. Maybe I should just be apart from him for ahile and in the meantime work on myself and pray that God's opening his eye's on how he should treat me.

Thanks again!

[revrobor]

Unless I missed something here I dont see any grounds for a biblical divorce. :hmm:

Regarding the "Biblical grounds" you and others like to throw up one point you miss is if the marriage was not put together by God in the first place they are not bound by the Biblical "rules". Just because a couple stand before a minister and obtain a civil marriage license does not make it a marriage God has endorsed. The reason the divorce rate is as high in the Christian community as it is in the rest of society is because many Christians run to the altar and as God to bless THEIR choice rather than asking Him to show them HIS choice (if He wants them to marry at all).

[Quickened]

Regarding the "Biblical grounds" you and others like to throw up one point you miss is if the marriage was not put together by God in the first place they are not bound by the Biblical "rules".

God created the institution of marriage for a reason. In His Word we have his blueprint as to how that is going to be followed. Marriages happen for a variety of reasons. In older times marriages were arranged. Sometimes people have courted/dated for a time before marriage. Sometimes the man gets the blessing of the father before asking for his daughters hand in marriage.

The main fault of this post is that no man can tell if a marriage was put together by God. No one can possibly claim to have such knowledge. What do we look for? Perhaps signs of spiritual maturity? If they get along great?

There is no way to gauge this. Marriage while bringing a man and woman together in a Godly union never guarantees a flawless relationship. They will go through times and seasons together.

Marriages have disagreements. While the bible gives us great advise on how to treat our spouses it may be difficult to apply those verses without first some practice. In the middle of an argument people tend to forget those things.

Secondly sometimes God allows "undesireable" things to happen to a believer. See the book of Job. While we may not be covered in boils or have our families instantly be destroyed. We may experienece other unpleasant things. Just because things may look bad on the exterior doesnt mean that God isnt soverignly working behind the scenes.

Just because a couple stand before a minister and obtain a civil marriage license does not make it a marriage God has endorsed. The reason the divorce rate is as high in the Christian community as it is in the rest of society is because many Christians run to the altar and as God to bless THEIR choice rather than asking Him to show them HIS choice (if He wants them to marry at all).

I would disagree with you again.

I think the divorce rate (in the Christian community) is high (aside from our "me" centered society) because there are christians like yourself that enable these younger folks by second guessing the validity of a minister ordained marriage.

I mean really think about it. Younger Christians look to older Christians for guidence. Given all the things she has went through... tearing up the marriage certificate, posting about a divorce... this post you have is only going to enable that behavior.

Again back to scripture God has set up marriage a certain way. Regardless of our situations once we enter into it we are bound by the covenant we make with our spouse before the eyes of God.

Some verses come to mind here


Mal 2:14 But you say, "Why does he not?" Because the LORD was witness between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant.

Mal 2:15 Did he not make them one, with a portion of the Spirit in their union? And what was the one God seeking? Godly offspring. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and let none of you be faithless to the wife of your youth.

When people get married they promise to be faithful to one another regardless of what happens. Some marriages go for a while with no problems it seems. Others began as soon as the marriage ceremony ends. Either way we now promise to persevere in the hard times as well as the good. We cant just give up because things arent going favorably.

I would like to conclude this post by reiterating my point.

1. There is no possible way that someone can conlude whether "the marriage" was (or was not) put together by God". We can guess at best but we do not have access to the knowledge that God has about personal issues outside of scripture.

2 While i agree that the divorce rate is high because people rush into things that doesnt give the ok for people who rush into things to start divorcing. We should honor the covenant we entered into with our spouse regardless of conditions. We should peresevere.

Do i see fault in this young man? From what is posted here yes. But fault doesnt lay on one side. I feel nichole has been honest in her posting and she is seeking solid biblical counciling both from outside sources and even here on this board. Getting more than one opinion is wise.

[BCF]

I agree with revrobor....not b/c I believe that he is right....but b/c I know that scripture is right, and I can find so much in scripture based off of God's institution of marriage that tells me just what revrobor has wrote...and what I had wrote yesterday.

I will follow this thread....but will not comment on it anymore....for I do not wish to derail this thread with my comments. But if the OP would like to have a marriage ordained and put together by God....do this.

Go and let God led you to a God Fearing Husband....who is going to show you the Love of Christ through his Fruit that he walks in....and not through lip service.

God Bless,

Dave

[His Bride]

There are so many things about your story that shout at a lack of wisdom. You keep talking about how mature he is, how spirit filled, how you want to be godly. But everything that has led up to this post speaks of self and sin.

The bottom line is that you both need the help and accountability of mature godly people. Until then you will be tossed around, not knowing what to believe, and having no direction. You could spend all of your days talking with people on this forum or you could go and get some real hands-on help. I pray the latter is what you will do.

[lacy+chk]

i would say that yes, you are married according to the bible and despite missing the legal aspect, your pastor i'm sure has the copy that you would need to file. continuing to threaten divorce and/or leaving will only continue to hurt the marriage that i feel deep down you both want to save. you have no reason for divorce besides you are both acting childish. re-center your lives on church, Christ, and prayer and change your marriage around!

[bluejay_04]

There are so many things about your story that shout at a lack of wisdom. You keep talking about how mature he is, how spirit filled, how you want to be godly. But everything that has led up to this post speaks of self and sin.

The bottom line is that you both need the help and accountability of mature godly people. Until then you will be tossed around, not knowing what to believe, and having no direction. You could spend all of your days talking with people on this forum or you could go and get some real hands-on help. I pray the latter is what you will do.

Well obviously we jumped into the marriage too quickly....I was relying on God being in the center of our marriage and correcting every problem we had. I'm not going to make excuses for why I did what I did, because needless to say, I am young, and I'm a newborn Christian so I still have SO much to learn. I've never stated he was mature (sorry if anything I said lead you to believe I think this), he is however spirit filled (as am I), and he knows the bible like the back of his hand. Now with that said, I feel as though he likes to study and point out to me scriptures regarding how a wife is supposed to act as oppose to studying how a husband is supposed to act. The reason he does this: My guess is because he wants complete control over everything so disregards the "Husbands love your wives as Christ does the Church". As for me wanting to be Godly, what is wrong with that? There's people that want to be a lawyer, but before attending schooling, and educating themselves on how to be so, they can't just jump into the court room and defend someone with lack of education and knowledge. Now where I'm getting at is, YES, I want to be Godly and I'm working at that. I'm reading the word, I'm buying books to help me, and I pray daily. So my question to you is, am I not being wise by TRYING to be Godly, or am I being selfish or committing a sin by trying to do so. What you stated above really makes no sense to me. You make it seem as though even though I'm in the situation I've put myself in, it's impossible for me to WANT to be Godly. And not only do I want it, I;m working with myself on it.

As far as being around more mature Christians, I'm working on that as well. I've recently began talking to a couple of older woman in my church (so I'm working up to explaining my situation to them) and my aunt is a minister and her advice to me is to divorce. Because she's heard John talk his beliefs with her on how a biblical marriage is supposed to be and she seen that there was no way he was going to think differently. She has also told me that her first husband was EXACTLY like John, so I do think it just scares her a little because she loves me, so I don't take to heart that her telling me to divorce him is of God. All and all, I have done SO GOOD at not surrounding myself around people who are not Godly, even people in my own family.

[His Bride]

Well obviously we jumped into the marriage too quickly....I was relying on God being in the center of our marriage and correcting every problem we had. I'm not going to make excuses for why I did what I did, because needless to say, I am young, and I'm a newborn Christian so I still have SO much to learn. I've never stated he was mature (sorry if anything I said lead you to believe I think this), he is however spirit filled (as am I), and he knows the bible like the back of his hand. Now with that said, I feel as though he likes to study and point out to me scriptures regarding how a wife is supposed to act as oppose to studying how a husband is supposed to act. The reason he does this: My guess is because he wants complete control over everything so disregards the "Husbands love your wives as Christ does the Church". As for me wanting to be Godly, what is wrong with that? There's people that want to be a lawyer, but before attending schooling, and educating themselves on how to be so, they can't just jump into the court room and defend someone with lack of education and knowledge. Now where I'm getting at is, YES, I want to be Godly and I'm working at that. I'm reading the word, I'm buying books to help me, and I pray daily. So my question to you is, am I not being wise by TRYING to be Godly, or am I being selfish or committing a sin by trying to do so. What you stated above really makes no sense to me. You make it seem as though even though I'm in the situation I've put myself in, it's impossible for me to WANT to be Godly. And not only do I want it, I;m working with myself on it.

As far as being around more mature Christians, I'm working on that as well. I've recently began talking to a couple of older woman in my church (so I'm working up to explaining my situation to them) and my aunt is a minister and her advice to me is to divorce. Because she's heard John talk his beliefs with her on how a biblical marriage is supposed to be and she seen that there was no way he was going to think differently. She has also told me that her first husband was EXACTLY like John, so I do think it just scares her a little because she loves me, so I don't take to heart that her telling me to divorce him is of God. All and all, I have done SO GOOD at not surrounding myself around people who are not Godly, even people in my own family.


I think it's wonderful that you wish to be a godly woman, and yes, you need biblical examples all around you. That is why it is important to find the right mature woman to help you. Personally, I would spend my time in the Word of God, and not other books at this time. God has everything that you need to be built up in the faith. Your relationship with Him will ultimately be the foundation for all of your other relationships.

Your sins can be brought to the cross if you repent and accept His forgiveness. I'm not sure what you are meaning when you say that you are Spirit filled. If you are a genuine believer then the Holy Spirit resides within you. You may grieve Him when you sin. But you can be brought back into right relationship when you confess those to Him and ask to be refilled by Him. He will always inhabit you, however.

At your young age, knowing your mistakes and sins, I think that you are in a good place to take stock, get godly discipling, and get your life on the right track with the Lord. You don't know how many of us who are older wish we had had that opportunity! But we do know the Lord, we are grateful for His mercy and grace. And we have learned a bit along the way. That's why we wish so much for you.

As for divorce, I cannot even begin to answer that for you. That is why I stress godly discipling. God would not want you to be abused in any way. But you must be careful who gives you advice. God bless.

[revrobor]

God created the institution of marriage for a reason. In His Word we have his blueprint as to how that is going to be followed. Marriages happen for a variety of reasons. In older times marriages were arranged. Sometimes people have courted/dated for a time before marriage. Sometimes the man gets the blessing of the father before asking for his daughters hand in marriage.

Is it not possible that God guided those who arranged the marriages?

The main fault of this post is that no man can tell if a marriage was put together by God. No one can possibly claim to have such knowledge. What do we look for? Perhaps signs of spiritual maturity? If they get along great?

Has God stopped speaking to you? If so that's sad because He is capable of speaking to His people today just as He did in Biblical days. Any Believer who asks Gos if their intended marriage is of Him will receive an answer from God in a way they will understand.

There is no way to gauge this. Marriage while bringing a man and woman together in a Godly union never guarantees a flawless relationship. They will go through times and seasons together.

Of course they will. But if it's a God ordained marriage those problems will be a lot easier to work out because He is the corner stone of the marriage.

Marriages have disagreements. While the bible gives us great advise on how to treat our spouses it may be difficult to apply those verses without first some practice. In the middle of an argument people tend to forget those things.

Secondly sometimes God allows "undesireable" things to happen to a believer. See the book of Job. While we may not be covered in boils or have our families instantly be destroyed. We may experienece other unpleasant things. Just because things may look bad on the exterior doesnt mean that God isnt soverignly working behind the scenes.

It does if the couple went against God's will and married when He did not ordain it.




I would disagree with you again.

I think the divorce rate (in the Christian community) is high (aside from our "me" centered society) because there are christians like yourself that enable these younger folks by second guessing the validity of a minister ordained marriage.

It is "Christians" who parrot misinterpretation of Scripture that confuse young people and make it difficult for them to hear God's voice/ While Biblical counseling is important a minister cannot tell a couple if their intended marriage or trouble marriage is of God. God will tell the couple (if both are seeking His will - otherwise He will tell the one who IS seeking His will).

I mean really think about it. Younger Christians look to older Christians for guidence. Given all the things she has went through... tearing up the marriage certificate, posting about a divorce... this post you have is only going to enable that behavior.

I hope it will enable them to seek GOD'S will not man's.

Again back to scripture God has set up marriage a certain way. Regardless of our situations once we enter into it we are bound by the covenant we make with our spouse before the eyes of God.

Some verses come to mind here



When people get married they promise to be faithful to one another regardless of what happens. Some marriages go for a while with no problems it seems. Others began as soon as the marriage ceremony ends. Either way we now promise to persevere in the hard times as well as the good. We cant just give up because things arent going favorably.

I would like to conclude this post by reiterating my point.

1. There is no possible way that someone can conlude whether "the marriage" was (or was not) put together by God". We can guess at best but we do not have access to the knowledge that God has about personal issues outside of scripture.

If their marriage was ordained by God.

2 While i agree that the divorce rate is high because people rush into things that doesnt give the ok for people who rush into things to start divorcing. We should honor the covenant we entered into with our spouse regardless of conditions. We should peresevere.

If their marriage was ordained by God.

Do i see fault in this young man? From what is posted here yes. But fault doesnt lay on one side. I feel nichole has been honest in her posting and she is seeking solid biblical counciling both from outside sources and even here on this board. Getting more than one opinion is wise.

May God guide them as they seek HIS will.

[moonglow]

Well obviously we jumped into the marriage too quickly....I was relying on God being in the center of our marriage and correcting every problem we had. I'm not going to make excuses for why I did what I did, because needless to say, I am young, and I'm a newborn Christian so I still have SO much to learn. I've never stated he was mature (sorry if anything I said lead you to believe I think this), he is however spirit filled (as am I), and he knows the bible like the back of his hand. Now with that said, I feel as though he likes to study and point out to me scriptures regarding how a wife is supposed to act as oppose to studying how a husband is supposed to act. The reason he does this: My guess is because he wants complete control over everything so disregards the "Husbands love your wives as Christ does the Church". As for me wanting to be Godly, what is wrong with that? There's people that want to be a lawyer, but before attending schooling, and educating themselves on how to be so, they can't just jump into the court room and defend someone with lack of education and knowledge. Now where I'm getting at is, YES, I want to be Godly and I'm working at that. I'm reading the word, I'm buying books to help me, and I pray daily. So my question to you is, am I not being wise by TRYING to be Godly, or am I being selfish or committing a sin by trying to do so. What you stated above really makes no sense to me. You make it seem as though even though I'm in the situation I've put myself in, it's impossible for me to WANT to be Godly. And not only do I want it, I;m working with myself on it.

As far as being around more mature Christians, I'm working on that as well. I've recently began talking to a couple of older woman in my church (so I'm working up to explaining my situation to them) and my aunt is a minister and her advice to me is to divorce. Because she's heard John talk his beliefs with her on how a biblical marriage is supposed to be and she seen that there was no way he was going to think differently. She has also told me that her first husband was EXACTLY like John, so I do think it just scares her a little because she loves me, so I don't take to heart that her telling me to divorce him is of God. All and all, I have done SO GOOD at not surrounding myself around people who are not Godly, even people in my own family.

bluejay I just wanted to offer some words of encouragement here. I image right now you are feeling pretty bad about all of this and you ARE trying to hard...and God will bless you for that.

I personally have grown so much in Christ by posting on here. I do better learning this way and never found anyone in church I felt I could talk too about anything. The times I tried, due to my own terrible marriage, I got little response and no real help other then praying for me. It was a very difficult time for me having no support other then my family. I don't know what I would have done without them.

I am impressed that you are doing so much that you are doing...I see nothing wrong with talking to us on here and getting guidance. We are real people after all and some of us have gone through similar things you have and can hopefully offer you some council in this area. You will get conflicting opinions and ideas of course just like in real life too.

Your husband really needs to be studying on how to be a godly husband before he can make demands on you and he needs to realize no one learns to be a godly husband or wife over night either..it takes years! Its an ongoing process! To expect someone to blink and be perfect is just not realistic.

Try to give yourself some credit here...take some deep breaths...God loves you AS you are right now. His love is unconditional. It would be nice if your husband's love was unconditional for you also...:cry:

I am praying for you and for him on all of this.

God bless

[bluejay_04]

bluejay I just wanted to offer some words of encouragement here. I image right now you are feeling pretty bad about all of this and you ARE trying to hard...and God will bless you for that.

I personally have grown so much in Christ by posting on here. I do better learning this way and never found anyone in church I felt I could talk too about anything. The times I tried, due to my own terrible marriage, I got little response and no real help other then praying for me. It was a very difficult time for me having no support other then my family. I don't know what I would have done without them.

I am impressed that you are doing so much that you are doing...I see nothing wrong with talking to us on here and getting guidance. We are real people after all and some of us have gone through similar things you have and can hopefully offer you some council in this area. You will get conflicting opinions and ideas of course just like in real life too.

Your husband really needs to be studying on how to be a godly husband before he can make demands on you and he needs to realize no one learns to be a godly husband or wife over night either..it takes years! Its an ongoing process! To expect someone to blink and be perfect is just not realistic.

Try to give yourself some credit here...take some deep breaths...God loves you AS you are right now. His love is unconditional. It would be nice if your husband's love was unconditional for you also...:cry:

I am praying for you and for him on all of this.

God bless


Thank you Moonglow!! Your post actually brought tears to my eyes! I think you're right....I am trying to hard. And in the midst of trying to figure out what to do so quickly, I almost forgot that God does love me. I just sent him a text telling him that I love him and I want to do the right thing but I'm scared of him, I'm scared of all the pressure I get when I'm around him, I just pray that he'll cut me some slack and just LOVE me. I know I can change and be more Christlike, but like you said, it doesn't happen overnight. I was just thinking to myself about all the areas I need to work on in my life and where to start. But I thank you all for your help, words, advice, and PRAYERS! You're ALL WONDERFUL!

God Bless you ALL!!

[Uriel]

I would like to respond to the idea of God ordained marriages, in the words of my priest when I told him I was thinking of purposing to my now fianee. He said that he had no problem with that because we are both Christians. That as long as both people are Christians then there is no Biblical reason they cannot get married. As long as they make God the center of the marriage God will bless the union. Also as long as the marriage as been performed by an ordained minister who is able to bless the union. But I am not sure if God chooses two people to be together, mainly because I believe in freewill. I think that God calls Christians to marry other Christians, if Christians do that then I believe God will bless there marriage that does not mean that there will not be work. The whole process of dating, engagement, and pre-marriage counseling is to make sure that this person who you want to marry is going to make the process of marriage one that is enjoyable and the easiest process.

For example in the case of the OP it seems that she thought everything was going to change once she got married. But that is not the case, as she is now finding out. I would guess that you all had a lot of the same problems before you got married that you do now. I also think that your husband needs to understand that he is the spiritual leader in the relationship and that you will submit to him in spiritual matters, but that you don't have to do so in all matters. If you want to visit your parents then if he loves you, he should have no problem with it. If you want to buy an outfit for you son, then you should be able to do that, as well. Now if it comes down to big things like going to a different church or having a child or taking a new job in another city or state, the two of you should discuss it and if you cannot come to an agreement then he should pray and seek the Lord on it and then make the descision that he believes the Lord is giving him.

But as you and others have pointed out this kind of controling that you have described so far is very abusive. If he wants to be a Godly man he should not be doing it. I also think that you should relax a little bit and not let him push you to the limit if he keeps wanting to push something just stop discussing it, drop the subject explain that you will no longer discuss it.

[moonglow]

Thank you Moonglow!! Your post actually brought tears to my eyes! I think you're right....I am trying to hard. And in the midst of trying to figure out what to do so quickly, I almost forgot that God does love me. I just sent him a text telling him that I love him and I want to do the right thing but I'm scared of him, I'm scared of all the pressure I get when I'm around him, I just pray that he'll cut me some slack and just LOVE me. I know I can change and be more Christlike, but like you said, it doesn't happen overnight. I was just thinking to myself about all the areas I need to work on in my life and where to start. But I thank you all for your help, words, advice, and PRAYERS! You're ALL WONDERFUL!

God Bless you ALL!!

I do that too...constantly think of all the things I need to improve on and today it dawned me that God loves me anyway! So why not pass that on to others to encourage them.

One thing at a time! ok? Lean on God and ask Him what He wants you to do. What is so terrible about you that you need to fix right now? Probably nothing terrible at all...

I am afraid you will get overwhelmed, burned out and give up ...remember Jesus said my yoke is light. Lean on Him and don't try to be the Proverbs woman overnight...I think probably few wives achieve this...she sounds like some super hero to me anyway...:lol: That is one organized, talented lady! lol I can barely sew a button on...lol. I would like to know where the Proverbs man is anyway? Seems like she does all the work..:hmm:

Just joking. I did a study once on the role of the husband and I was so amazed at the work and responsibility they have to undertake. Makes the wives job look easy actually...he has to provide AND protect his family..he has to be the spiritual leader (image the pressure!), the list goes on and on. Its an awful lot he has to take on.

Right now I think with you being a new Christian you need to be a "Mary" and not a "Martha".

Luke 10

38 Now it happened as they went that He entered a certain village; and a certain woman named Martha welcomed Him into her house. 39 And she had a sister called Mary, who also sat at Jesus’ feet and heard His word. 40 But Martha was distracted with much serving, and she approached Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Therefore tell her to help me.”
41 And Jesus answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things. 42 But one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part, which will not be taken away from her.”

David Guzik's Commentaries (http://www.studylight.org/com/guz/view.cgi?book=lu&chapter=010)
a. A certain woman named Martha welcomed Him into her house: Martha and Mary, along with their brother Lazarus, were two dear friends of Jesus who lived in Bethany. You can imagine how Martha wanted everything perfect when Jesus came to visit!

b. Mary, who also sat at Jesus' feet and heard His word: Martha didn't get the help she wanted from her sister Mary. It wasn't that Mary was lazy - she prepared as well as Martha, but she also sat at Jesus' feet.

c. Martha was distracted with much serving: Martha did nothing wrong in working hard for Jesus - that was good. Her problem was that she became distracted with much serving. Distracted from whom? Distracted from Jesus.

i. There are many people who become crabby and irritable in their service for the Lord like Martha. It is easy to look at all we do and to criticize those who aren't doing as much. But Martha's real problem wasn't Mary; it was Martha. She had become distracted and had taken her eyes off Jesus.

ii. Martha's frustration is typical of those who diligently serve with good intent, but forget to also sit at Jesus' feet.

So give yourself a break and be a "Mary" for awhile. You have alot on your shoulders as it is...

God bless

[aliveinchrist]

I think your husband is being VERY controlling. And for me being frank? No, he doesn't sound like he knows how a Christian husband is supposed to act. A Christian husband is not controlling. A Christian husband does not keep you from seeing your parents, as God doesn't, and if you boy needs clothes, I HIGHLY doubt God will frown upon that.

He MAY KNOW how a Christian husband is supposed to act, but he sure doesn't know how to act it.

Honestly, it doesn't sound like he loves you, it sounds like he just wants to control you.

[bluejay_04]

I again thank everyone for their words and prayers. I won't be on this site very much for AT LEAST the next week or more, as I have decided to spend the next week seeking God on correction in my OWN life and correction in my marriage and I don't want anyone or anything distract me during my seeking so I can hear from God. God Bless you all! And I will talk to you all soon!

[moonglow]

I again thank everyone for their words and prayers. I won't be on this site very much for AT LEAST the next week or more, as I have decided to spend the next week seeking God on correction in my OWN life and correction in my marriage and I don't want anyone or anything distract me during my seeking so I can hear from God. God Bless you all! And I will talk to you all soon!

Ok good...I'll be praying for the Lord to guide you along the way....:) :pray:


God Bless

[bluejay_04]

I know I said I wouldn't be on here for awhile, but something has come up that I just have to vent about and/or get opinions on. I've been in the Word all day today and in prayer, I told John that I thought it wasn't right for me to talk to him while I'm in the middle of seeking, so that I have no interuptions. I then ran across a scripture that made me believe I shouldn't be in seeking without my husband (I may have interpreted it wrong), I've been on my knees praising Christ for everything he has done for me and begging for direction....So anyways, I just called my husband (who thought it was wrong of me to seek God without him as well) and we were doing a little bit of bible studying, going over what I read in Matthew today and 1 Corinthians, and I we were reading on how when you even look at the opposite sex in a lustful way, you have already committed adultry. So I asked him if has done this and he wouldn't answer me. I told him that if he didn't answer me, that means the answer is yes and so he hung up on me. He then sent me a text saying that he hopes I'm happy for digging for reasons to divorce him. So that tells me automatically that he HAS. I am SO SO SO HURT right now. He won't talk to me and tell me anything regarding this. He hasn't apologized or anything! I was really hoping that after my time of seeking, I would be ready to start this marriage over FRESH and now this....

[revrobor]

I know I said I wouldn't be on here for awhile, but something has come up that I just have to vent about and/or get opinions on. I've been in the Word all day today and in prayer, I told John that I thought it wasn't right for me to talk to him while I'm in the middle of seeking, so that I have no interuptions. I then ran across a scripture that made me believe I shouldn't be in seeking without my husband (I may have interpreted it wrong), I've been on my knees praising Christ for everything he has done for me and begging for direction....So anyways, I just called my husband (who thought it was wrong of me to seek God without him as well) and we were doing a little bit of bible studying, going over what I read in Matthew today and 1 Corinthians, and I we were reading on how when you even look at the opposite sex in a lustful way, you have already committed adultry. So I asked him if has done this and he wouldn't answer me. I told him that if he didn't answer me, that means the answer is yes and so he hung up on me. He then sent me a text saying that he hopes I'm happy for digging for reasons to divorce him. So that tells me automatically that he HAS. I am SO SO SO HURT right now. He won't talk to me and tell me anything regarding this. He hasn't apologized or anything! I was really hoping that after my time of seeking, I would be ready to start this marriage over FRESH and now this....

The only person you can control is you. He has tried to control you in just about every other way do not let him control you by causing you anger and pain. You can control your response to his actions. I am praying for you.

[bluejay_04]

The only person you can control is you. He has tried to control you in just about every other way do not let him control you by causing you anger and pain. You can control your response to his actions. I am praying for you.


Thank you for your prayers, they are much needed!

I actually feel a little better, it does hurt to think I'm trying to do so much to fix this marriage and he's out in this world lusting after other women?? But oh well, at least I know now. And now that he refuses to talk to me since this has come to light, It makes me wonder if he ever really even wanted this marriage to work or not...

[bluejay_04]

I went ahead and started a post in the Women at the Well thread to go along with this one. I felt that is would be helpful to get insight from a woman's perspective now. Not that you fella's didn't give great answers, because you did! I just thought that since I'm now dealing with "infidelity" in a sense, it would be wise to seek advice from women who have experienced if not the same, but similar situations.