Have I trampled God's grace underfoot

[Forgiven Alaskan]

Remember that verse that talks about those trampling God's grace underfoot, and there is no longer any grace left for them. I'm not sure where in the Bible that is, but I worry I've done that.

If any of you remember my thread on homosexuality last fall, this is still an enduring issue, but right now I am more worried about my spirituality.

I don't know if any of you know of Paul Washer. It's ok if not, I didn't until two night ago. Well, I watched his sermon on youtube (I'd post it, but I can't access youtube here).

Anyways he was talking about sugar coating Christianity, and how so many Christians think that because they prayed a prayer once they are going to Heaven, but they are living just like the world, so where is the evidence of their faith (fruit)?

Many will say "Lord, Lord" but Jesus' response will be that He never knew them. I started thinking. I've had some victory, but recently I fell off the wagon. I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I didn't care. I knew it displeased God but I didn't care, I just wanted it so bad. In other words I wanted it more than God.

I wasn't unknowledagble about Christ. I knew what was right and wrong, and I rejected God anyway. Is that Christianlike fruit? Obviously not.

So I started to anayalze my life, and I think I must be going through cyles of emotion. Obviously If I went back to such a sinful lifetsyle, the change wasn't significant enough. If Christ is to truly change me, it would be like being run over by a semi-truck. I should be permantly changed.

So now I feel like a clean slate, but in limbo land. I don't know what I feel anymore. It's like my ability to feel has been locked away. I feel I have gone past that point of no return and have trampled upon God's grace. I might as well be sent to Hell right now. At times I feel God's presence, but so can Satan. That doesn't make him saved.

I don't really know what to do now. I know i need to realize this is more than emotion, but I don't want to lock away my emotions. I know obediance is a huge factor and I would be a fool to think otherwise.

I feel like there is no where left for me to go. I feel like (dare I say) that I have trampled God's grace underfoot. If that is so I do wish he would strike me dead right here, and right now.

[Scruffy Kid]

My dear brother in Christ, :hug:
Please do not give in to these despairing thoughts.

We have lots of feelings; feelings come and go.
That you are having a dry period in your feelings toward God is not a sign that some fundamental thing is wrong with you, or with that relationship.

God loves you greatly, as He does all of us. But He loves you specifically, and individually, knowing all the problems.

The state of mind you are displaying here is NOT one of indifference to God, or of turning your back on Him.

Falling off the wagon is bad -- very bad for you -- of course. But what God wants is not for you to despair, but for you to come to Him, with trust, confessing your sin, and seeking his help to do better.

The voice of despair comes from the evil one. It's the devil who is the accuser of the brethren. Please, do not listen to that voice.

You are struggling with a difficult situation. I don't take lightly the harm that is done when we turn away from Christ in our actions. But also you need to realize that we are all sinners, and that often Christ works in our lives in a way that to us seems slow.

Come to the throne of grace with confidence, and to us your brothers and sisters also, for encouragement and strength to live right.

May God's sure and beautiful blessings be with you, dear one!
Scruff


Have I trampled God's grace underfoot?
Remember that verse that talks about those trampling God's grace underfoot, and there is no longer any grace left for them. I'm not sure where in the Bible that is, but I worry I've done that.

If any of you remember my thread on homosexuality last fall, this is still an enduring issue, but right now I am more worried about my spirituality.

I don't know if any of you know of Paul Washer. It's ok if not, I didn't until two night ago. Well, I watched his sermon on youtube (I'd post it, but I can't access youtube here).

Anyways he was talking about sugar coating Christianity, and how so many Christians think that because they prayed a prayer once they are going to Heaven, but they are living just like the world, so where is the evidence of their faith (fruit)?

Many will say "Lord, Lord" but Jesus' response will be that He never knew them. I started thinking. I've had some victory, but recently I fell off the wagon. I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I didn't care. I knew it displeased God but I didn't care, I just wanted it so bad. In other words I wanted it more than God.

I wasn't unknowledagble about Christ. I knew what was right and wrong, and I rejected God anyway. Is that Christianlike fruit? Obviously not.

So I started to anayalze my life, and I think I must be going through cyles of emotion. Obviously If I went back to such a sinful lifetsyle, the change wasn't significant enough. If Christ is to truly change me, it would be like being run over by a semi-truck. I should be permantly changed.

So now I feel like a clean slate, but in limbo land. I don't know what I feel anymore. It's like my ability to feel has been locked away. I feel I have gone past that point of no return and have trampled upon God's grace. I might as well be sent to Hell right now. At times I feel God's presence, but so can Satan. That doesn't make him saved.

I don't really know what to do now. I know i need to realize this is more than emotion, but I don't want to lock away my emotions. I know obediance is a huge factor and I would be a fool to think otherwise.

I feel like there is no where left for me to go. I feel like (dare I say) that I have trampled God's grace underfoot. If that is so I do wish he would strike me dead right here, and right now.

[moonglow]

If you were lost you wouldn't be worried about it...I mean if it was too late. You have to remember there is a difference between the passage you are talking about and back sliding...

Obviously you have been convicted of doing wrong which you wouldn't be if it was too late...Paul Washer covers that too: Paul Washer sermon jam 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY6F0pkArds)

Being convicted of a sin means you are His...that is a good sign.

That passage in Hebrews is about totally rejecting Jesus ...the gospel after you had initially accepted it. There is a big difference between that and black sliding.

Hebrews 10

26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us. 30 For we know the one who said,

“I will take revenge.
I will pay them back.”

He also said,

“The Lord will judge his own people.”

31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God

From Adam Clark's bible commentary:

Verse 26. For if we sin wilfully
If we deliberately, for fear of persecution or from any other motive, renounce the profession of the Gospel and the Author of that Gospel, after having received the knowledge of the truth so as to be convinced that Jesus is the promised Messiah, and that he had sprinkled our hearts from an evil conscience; for such there remaineth no sacrifice for sins; for as the Jewish sacrifices are abolished, as appears by the declaration of God himself in the fortieth Psalm, and Jesus being now the only sacrifice which God will accept, those who reject him have none other; therefore their case must be utterly without remedy.

This is the meaning of the apostle, and the case is that of a deliberate apostate-one who has utterly rejected Jesus Christ and his atonement, and renounced the whole Gospel system. It has nothing to do with backsliders in our common use of that term. A man may be overtaken in a fault, or he may deliberately go into sin, and yet neither renounce the Gospel, nor deny the Lord that bought him. His case is dreary and dangerous, but it is not hopeless; no case is hopeless but that of the deliberate apostate, who rejects the whole Gospel system, after having been saved by grace, or convinced of the truth of the Gospel. To him there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin; for there was but the ONE, Jesus, and this he has utterly rejected.


You have repented and so now you need to focus on getting back on track with Him...ok? :hug:

God bless

[DaniHansen]

Well obviously God hasn't struck you dead, because right here you are, online.

Here's the thing: If we never understand the power the enemy holds over us, how will we learn to fight? How will we understand his power if we don't get confronted with it, and learn the hooks he really has in us and how deep they go, so we can actually deal with them?

"This again, Lord? I thought we had that in the bag".

"Yes. Again. You haven't learned fully yet. There is more to it".

Often God lets us struggle, on purpose, until we reach a point of understanding of "hey, Jesus is really real, the devil is really real, too, and I'm just too weak in my own self without relying on the Lord daily, all day long, minute by minute, hour by hour". And it is at that point where we finally wake up, smell the coffee, see what's really happening, and learn to rely on grace to pick up our weapons of warfare and begin fighting. And I mean, truly fighting, instead of just the pretend play we so often do.

Therefore, in all you're getting, get understanding.

Push through the smokescreen and find out what it is really all about. Really, underneath it all. It's on the job training, brother. Welcome to warfare.

[Gregg]

Remember that verse that talks about those trampling God's grace underfoot, and there is no longer any grace left for them. I'm not sure where in the Bible that is, but I worry I've done that.

If any of you remember my thread on homosexuality last fall, this is still an enduring issue, but right now I am more worried about my spirituality.

I don't know if any of you know of Paul Washer. It's ok if not, I didn't until two night ago. Well, I watched his sermon on youtube (I'd post it, but I can't access youtube here).

Anyways he was talking about sugar coating Christianity, and how so many Christians think that because they prayed a prayer once they are going to Heaven, but they are living just like the world, so where is the evidence of their faith (fruit)?

Many will say "Lord, Lord" but Jesus' response will be that He never knew them. I started thinking. I've had some victory, but recently I fell off the wagon. I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I didn't care. I knew it displeased God but I didn't care, I just wanted it so bad. In other words I wanted it more than God.

I wasn't unknowledagble about Christ. I knew what was right and wrong, and I rejected God anyway. Is that Christianlike fruit? Obviously not.

So I started to anayalze my life, and I think I must be going through cyles of emotion. Obviously If I went back to such a sinful lifetsyle, the change wasn't significant enough. If Christ is to truly change me, it would be like being run over by a semi-truck. I should be permantly changed.

So now I feel like a clean slate, but in limbo land. I don't know what I feel anymore. It's like my ability to feel has been locked away. I feel I have gone past that point of no return and have trampled upon God's grace. I might as well be sent to Hell right now. At times I feel God's presence, but so can Satan. That doesn't make him saved.

I don't really know what to do now. I know i need to realize this is more than emotion, but I don't want to lock away my emotions. I know obediance is a huge factor and I would be a fool to think otherwise.

I feel like there is no where left for me to go. I feel like (dare I say) that I have trampled God's grace underfoot. If that is so I do wish he would strike me dead right here, and right now.

Forgiven,

Wow, alot going on here. Please take this in the kind and helpful way that it is intended: You seem to be sincere, certainly emotional. You also seem to know how and when it is supposed to work. You then say that the homosexual thing is enduring and then sort of set that aside so you can be concerned/work on your spirituality. You seem to be trying to take control over the situation, then failing, blame God and even give him permission/wish to strike you dead.

I wonder how Peter felt after the rooster crowed three times? I wonder how Jesus felt, when he asked the Father to take the cup, but thy will not mine be done?

Do we put our faith in faith, or do we put our faith in Jesus? We have to give all of our sin nature to Jesus, we have to give all that is good and bad to him to use how he sees fit.

If you beat yourself up, it may stop your behavior for a short while, if you do not take it serious enough you will not heal. What happens if you confess and give all of it to him? Sometimes we have to be willing to be willing. Sometimes we want to hold something back because we are afraid or think we know better. All of us who have a sinned so much that we can calll it an addiction think that it might be easier to die than live without it. Get thee behind us satan!! That is a lie. No sin or addiction is bigger than Jesus Christ. I do not know how he will heal you, it may be immediate, or it may be a process in which you will need to use tools he has provided to walk on the journey of healing. Either way he will heal you, just let him.

Our sins our selfish, just a bit of humor; you mention I or me about 45 times in your post and Jesus/God 7 times (and that includes 2 for the Lord Lord). I know I do this often. We can laugh together.

Now a bit of light. You wouldn't be in here and so honest if you were not sincere about getting these sins out of your life. If he didn't love you, you wouldn't be here either.

May God bless you on your journey of recovery. In Jesus name I pray Amen.

[Forgiven Alaskan]

I know so much. I know why I ended up this way. I know I believe lies about myself that I am worth nothing. I know a lot. I know God has truths for me and not lies, but besides that I don't know what to do. I guess I don't know how to let go of the lies and believe the truth God has about my life. I guess I have a hard time trusting Him.

[moonglow]

I know so much. I know why I ended up this way. I know I believe lies about myself that I am worth nothing. I know a lot. I know God has truths for me and not lies, but besides that I don't know what to do. I guess I don't know how to let go of the lies and believe the truth God has about my life. I guess I have a hard time trusting Him.

I think we all struggle at times with trusting God. This usually comes from bad experiences of people letting us down in our lives. It makes it difficult to think He won't be any different. But He is. He isn't 'another human being'. All people will let us down at some point in our lives...either on purpose or through things they have no control over.

This is where you pray and ask Him to give you faith. If you keep trying to do it on your own you will stay stuck. Just ask Him to help you trust.

Mark 9
24 The father instantly cried out, “I do believe, but help me overcome my unbelief!”

This is something most of us need to do.

Hang in there..have hope!

God bless

[DaniHansen]

I know so much. I know why I ended up this way. I know I believe lies about myself that I am worth nothing. I know a lot. I know God has truths for me and not lies, but besides that I don't know what to do. I guess I don't know how to let go of the lies and believe the truth God has about my life. I guess I have a hard time trusting Him.

You repent of believing them, and ask for deliverance. :)

You say you're worth nothing. That makes Jesus nothing, because He paid for you with His life. Something is only worth the price that was paid for it.

So what is Jesus' life worth? That's what you're worth.

[Diggindeeper]

Remember that verse that talks about those trampling God's grace underfoot, and there is no longer any grace left for them. I'm not sure where in the Bible that is, but I worry I've done that.

If any of you remember my thread on homosexuality last fall, this is still an enduring issue, but right now I am more worried about my spirituality.

I don't know if any of you know of Paul Washer. It's ok if not, I didn't until two night ago. Well, I watched his sermon on youtube (I'd post it, but I can't access youtube here).

Anyways he was talking about sugar coating Christianity, and how so many Christians think that because they prayed a prayer once they are going to Heaven, but they are living just like the world, so where is the evidence of their faith (fruit)?

Many will say "Lord, Lord" but Jesus' response will be that He never knew them. I started thinking. I've had some victory, but recently I fell off the wagon. I knew what I was doing was wrong, but I didn't care. I knew it displeased God but I didn't care, I just wanted it so bad. In other words I wanted it more than God.

I wasn't unknowledagble about Christ. I knew what was right and wrong, and I rejected God anyway. Is that Christianlike fruit? Obviously not.

So I started to anayalze my life, and I think I must be going through cyles of emotion. Obviously If I went back to such a sinful lifetsyle, the change wasn't significant enough. If Christ is to truly change me, it would be like being run over by a semi-truck. I should be permantly changed.

So now I feel like a clean slate, but in limbo land. I don't know what I feel anymore. It's like my ability to feel has been locked away. I feel I have gone past that point of no return and have trampled upon God's grace. I might as well be sent to Hell right now. At times I feel God's presence, but so can Satan. That doesn't make him saved.

I don't really know what to do now. I know i need to realize this is more than emotion, but I don't want to lock away my emotions. I know obediance is a huge factor and I would be a fool to think otherwise.

I feel like there is no where left for me to go. I feel like (dare I say) that I have trampled God's grace underfoot. If that is so I do wish he would strike me dead right here, and right now.

Friend, there are those right here on this board who have gone on, living in sin, even though they claimed to be Christian. They can testify that God STILL accepted them right back, into his loving arms.

I think you have your own answer, in something you said in the quote above. You said, "I know obedience is a huge factor and I would be a fool to think otherwise."

Yes. Be obedient. And you will again know his presence with you. Jesus told the woman who was caught in the very act of adultery, "Go, and sin no more." That's the key. Start over. On a clean slate. Go. And sin no more.

[Scruffy Kid]

Dear Forgiven Alaskan,
Thank you so much for continuing to share your struggles with us! I really appreciate having you here!

First and foremost it is important to believe God.

God, by His very nature, is the source of our life, of all good, of mercy, of love, and of forgiveness. And He is the truth, and the source of truth.

In many many ways, God tells us that He loves us, very much.
Jesus tells us that He is the good shepherd, who loves and seeks the lost, and goes in search of the lost sheep. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep. (John 10:11) Thus He says What do you think?! If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, doesn't he leave the ninety and nine, and go into the mountains, and seek the one which is gone astray? And when he finds it, I tell you truly, he rejoices more over that sheep, than over the ninety nine which were safe. (Matt. 18:12-13) Jesus says Him that comes to me I will not cast out -- no way! (John 6:37) That really is what the verse says, though the old King James English "I will in no wise cast out" can obscure it.) And He says Come to me, all you that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest unto your souls. (Matt. 11:28-29) Jesus was often criticized by religious people for spending a lot of time with prostitutes, traitors, and people who had committed various bad sins. He replied It's not those who are well who need a doctor, but those who are sick! I have come not to call the righteous, but the sinners, to repentance. Another time when he was among people who were offended at how he welcomed notorious sinners he told a story of a very upright religious leader (Pharisee) and a terrible sinner (a tax-collector -- which in this case means a man who was collaborating with the Romans and getting rich out of cheating his fellow countrymen by doing so, a traitor) who went to pray. The Pharisee was proud of his upright life, but the tax collector so ashamed that he wouldn't even look up to heaven, but only said, God be merciful to me a sinner. But, Jesus tells us, that man went down to his house justified, rather than the upright man who was proud of his own virtue.

Dear forgiven Alaskan, please, please believe me -- and more important believe God -- that you are precious in His sight. He cares for you deeply, and delights in you, in spite of the various struggles you have, and your stumbling. He loves you deeply! So much!

Do not, please do not, give way to the voices that tell you you are worthless. Believe God's truth, and not the devil's lies. It is the evil one who says those things about worthlessness. Don't listen to that stuff, but know that you are precious in God's sight. We also value you, and are so glad that you are here, sharing your struggles with us!! You are of great value, great value. Come to God, come to Christ who loves you so tenderly, and let His love wash over you. This will help you to be stronger in resisting temptation, and it will be healing to your wounded heart. Please know, and try to rest in the great love that God has for you!!

Your friend and brother in Christ, :hug:
Scruff


I know so much. I know why I ended up this way. I know I believe lies about myself that I am worth nothing. I know a lot. I know God has truths for me and not lies, but besides that I don't know what to do. I guess I don't know how to let go of the lies and believe the truth God has about my life. I guess I have a hard time trusting Him.