A difference in sexual morals

[window]

There is a girl I have liked for a while and she seems like a pretty nice person. We have gone on dates and really enjoy each other's company. She is a Christian and i had plenty of reasons to believe her when she told me this.

Recently i learned what her idea of normal affection between people is. She believes that intimate touching is perfectly normal. She even goes this far with guys she is not exclusive with. I believe that this is completely wrong and is only lust. We have talked about it quite a bit, and she does say lust is wrong but does not believe this is wrong. Other than this, she seems to have ok morals and is against having sex before marriage.

She knows that I am against it and she's not sure if she wants to become too attached to me because she is afraid she will "corrupt" me. I am positive that i would run from any situation becoming to involved though. When she says things like that it makes me think somewhere she does think it is wrong and feels a little guilty but won't admit it or something, but i don't know.

I'm not totally sure if it is worth it to try to convince her this is wrong, but I am trying.

I believe only God can truly convict someone, but i don't know what to say to her about to help her understand why it is morally wrong. I have tried all I can think of. She is very open about it and cares for my opinion, otherwise i would probably just forget it.


Thanks

[FaithfulSheep]

My warning sirens are going off with this situation. She doesn't want to have sex before marriage, but will be intimate with guys she's not even dating? You two need to do some serious talking... and read some scripture together and discuss them. I have to leave for the day, but I will come back and say more tonight and give you some scripture references.

[Quickened]

There is a girl I have liked for a while and she seems like a pretty nice person. We have gone on dates and really enjoy each other's company. She is a Christian and i had plenty of reasons to believe her when she told me this.

Perhaps a new Christian?

Recently i learned what her idea of normal affection between people is. She believes that intimate touching is perfectly normal. She even goes this far with guys she is not exclusive with. I believe that this is completely wrong and is only lust. We have talked about it quite a bit, and she does say lust is wrong but does not believe this is wrong. Other than this, she seems to have ok morals and is against having sex before marriage.

You speak wisely on the part that I bolded. We need to focus on what lust entails. Or then what leads to lust. Can intimate touching become lust? I think that answer is quite obvious.

So she acknowledges that lust is wrong but not this. That displays to me that her understanding of lust is minimal.

Another thing you mention is that she has "ok" morals. I find that quote interesting because it really makes her morals seem middle of the road, average or mediocre.

Just like if i say that the coffee i am drinking is "ok". It comes across as neither horrible or outstanding. So from your post i am led to believe based on just those two things that she would be a new Christian or someone not fully aware what scripture says, what God intended and what God's character is all about.


She knows that I am against it and she's not sure if she wants to become too attached to me because she is afraid she will "corrupt" me. I am positive that i would run from any situation becoming to involved though. When she says things like that it makes me think somewhere she does think it is wrong and feels a little guilty but won't admit it or something, but i don't know.

The part I underlined here concerns me. Not because I am some prude "fuddy duddy" (always wanted to use that :lol:) but because before i was saved and when i was a very new Christian that type of statement meant that i could fool around with that girl. Once that barrier is broken then there is really nothing to stop the floodgates being opened and the whole act leading to sex.

I'm not totally sure if it is worth it to try to convince her this is wrong, but I am trying.

I believe only God can truly convict someone, but i don't know what to say to her about to help her understand why it is morally wrong. I have tried all I can think of. She is very open about it and cares for my opinion, otherwise i would probably just forget it.


Thanks

Perhaps it is. I mean look at it from another perspective. The didnt just develop this idea from hanging out with you. I believe that she has felt this way for some time. You acknowledge that its not wise. Could it not be that God has placed you here to speak to her kindly about this subject?

We can provide you with some resources that will help you deal with this.

I will have to do some research and then come back to this thread! If i forget someone PM me! :lol:

[DaniHansen]

Is this lady friend of yours truly born again?

Honestly, if she says she is a beliver, then she needs to find a surer footing with God and truly, fully follow Jesus and not skirt around the edges of the world's standards and grade herself on a curve to decide what is acceptable and what isn't. Why is she so eager to offer her body to people and compromise God's standards? Does she come from a background of rejection? Has she been wounded?

So I would think that would be your first objective, to find out where she actually stands with the Lord, and go from there. Sure you can discuss why her behavior is objectionable, but what she probably really needs is to be ministered to in an environment that allows her to share her true feelings and allow God to break these things within her so that she can be whole and offer her body to the Lord, all of it, instead of random men she has no intention of marrying. Maybe a women's group or talking to her pastor's wife, or find a mentor in a mature female believer that she can open up to.

This is where you're probably going to have to remove your personal interests in her and encourage her to seek out the help she so obviously needs. :hug:

[window]

Perhaps a new Christian?

I don't know how long she has been a Christian for. I know she goes to church regularly, and i think it is with her whole family.

Another thing you mention is that she has "ok" morals.

I really didn't mean her morals are just "ok." I meant that there are no other significant problems with them in my eyes that I have seen.



I think her parents came up with the corrupting thing not talking about anything like this. I think this because i don't usually text during school while she does, and her parents told her she would corrupt me. I do not think her parents know how far she goes with guys, and while she doesn't think so, it seems to me they would.



She knew I wouldn't do any of this much before we talked about it when she realized i'm not the "touchy feely" type. She told me i'm not ready for it to which I said its not that but that it is wrong. I hope your right about putting me in the right place.


Thanks again, you don't know how much it means to me

[window]

I do think she is born again, but I don't have much of a way to tell for sure. Other than this, it seems she is. She has gone so far to talk about scripture about it, but I don't remember exactly what it was.

I told her that it only leads to lust, but she just said anything can lead to lust so its no different.

I know she has been wounded in some ways. A while back she was involved in a statutory rape case. She has said she has had a hard life, but I don't know what all that includes.

his is where you're probably going to have to remove your personal interests in her and encourage her to seek out the help she so obviously needs.

thankfully, we have gone slow in becoming attached to each other (much slower than she would ever want), so we have become friends so I think that would be much easier.

Thanks again

[window]

I got to talk to her yesterday, and even though she is pretty hard headed, she said she would think about it and may be open to talking about it. I suggested she talk to her pastor's wife, but she didn't think that was appropriate for a few different reasons, but i will offer her more suggestions.

I still would like opinions on what i should do and say though.

[JesusMySavior]

Hey there bud,

I want to commend you for standing tall in this situation. I would say if she doesn't budge on the issue, call it splitsville. Your sanctification and your body is much too important to waste on the corrupted morals of a backslidden and/or compromising Christian.

Once the barrier of "touching/petting" is broken, it's all downhill from there. It's like you're on a diet, and potato chips are completely off limits here. But your curiosity gets the best of you and you say "well, one won't hurt". So you have one, you end up having five, then you break out the dip and before you know it you've made a meal out of it. Not smart.

Sexual immorality is like that, but much more slippery - especially with a partner. Because once you've opened that floodgate, though you may be determined from then on out to be strong, the other will be tempted and tempting, and vice versa. Blind man leading the blind man into the ditch, so on and so forth.

Keep your head up and your shoulders tall. Jesus will give you a woman who has morals that will impress you. :)

[HisLeast]

Not trying to be devils advocate here but from your post...

- She doesn't want sex before marriage.
- She does "this" with guys she's not exclusive with.

Would it be rude of me to ask what specifically we're talking about here?

[tango]

Not trying to be devils advocate here but from your post...

- She doesn't want sex before marriage.
- She does "this" with guys she's not exclusive with.

Would it be rude of me to ask what specifically we're talking about here?

The OP is referring to intimate touching.

[HisLeast]

The OP is referring to intimate touching.

Not to sound coy or anything, but I'm asking what precisely that means. Kissing on the lips? Holding hands? Or are we talking about non-coital gratification here? 2 of the 3 of those are likely nothing to worry about.

[window]

Thank you for all the opinions. thank you ,HisLeast, for wanting clarification. At first i was specific but i was given a warning and the post was reworded. Specifically it is the guy sticking his fingers where they don't belong and vice versa for the guy.


As of now, she has a new boyfriend, and even though she wouldn't say this was the reason, it is because of the difference in our morals. I'm not sure exactly what she is looking for in the relationships.

I do still care for her as a friend and we were going slow enough that we could still be close friends thankfully. I don't really know if she listens to me much. I have talked to her about it a lot though. She finally just said she was happy the way she was.

She is really getting herself into a bad situation because this new boyfriend is 25 making it statutory rape even if there is no intercourse i think. tell me if i'm wrong. I don't really want there to be a big scene to help her out, but i don't know what will happen.

I believe her parents are concerned with him but probably won't restrict her from dating him. She thinks they know what they do but i really doubt that. I'm sure they would be flipping out, especially because something similar to this happened when she was much younger.

I feel like it is my responsibility to protect her from herself but i don't guess i have much control over anything.

[DaniHansen]

I feel like it is my responsibility to protect her from herself but i don't guess i have much control over anything.

None of us are able to protect another person from themselves. So no, that's certainly NOT your responsibility.

You can be a friend. You can pray. You can share the truth with her. You can warn her. You can aid her in seeking out help for herself (but she obviously has plenty of trust issues, and is unwilling to discuss this with other females, even ... I'm guessing underneath of it all she's probably being plagued by shame and/or guilt even though she's not admitting it). But she is going to make her own decisions, and so short of putting her in a chastity belt and putting her in a high tower guarded by a dragon ... if people are successful in justifying their behavior to themselves, then no, you have to wait until they see the truth for what it is, and repent. You can show her the truth. You can't make her walk in it. That's her responsibility, not yours. God gives us a conscience, and underneath of it all, we do know right from wrong, whether we admit it to ourselves or not. And she is indeed having sex before marriage. When it comes to sexual sin, there is a reason Paul gave Timothy the strong admonishment to "flee". And "flee" in my book doesn't mean "try and get as close to the line as you can without going over". So I would encourage you to share that passage with her next time you meet.

And really, if she is underage then her parents are responsible to protect her. If one of my teenage daughters was living with me and dating a 25-year-old then I think I would in fact give that chastity belt serious consideration and go on the hunt for a dragon-for-hire. :)

[window]

I really wonder what her parents think of the whole situation. Like i said, when she was younger, she was a victim of statutory rape and the guy then was not much older than this guy is now. If I were a parent, that would terrify me.

[window]

It seems to me what they are doing is extremely stupid, on top of being bad. They both work in the same store, and I know she tends to tell her friends what she does. I'm not sure how long that can go on before somebody makes a scene out of it, but maybe i'm wrong. It seems to me that if this did happen, her parents would really tighten down on her and make her miserable. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not.

[tt1106]

Window,
First of all, I want to applaud you for sticking to your guns in light of such a delicate and provocative situation. I'm sure it is difficult of the face of this culture and this type of pressure to reamain true. Unfortunately you cannot protect someone that doesn't want to be protected. You can only pray, pray, pray. You can be a friend. You can witness. You can give advice if she asks and you can grow spiritually, steadfast in your beliefs. If she was the victim of a rape, she probably has some unresolved issues that have not been dealt with constructively and are causing more problems now.
Of course, if she does not recognize this and if she is not getting good guidance at home, then you are really fighting an uphill battle.
Keep praying for her.

tt1106.

[window]

When i was talking to her a lot about it, it seemed she got tired of listening to it and quit caring. I'm not sure what to say anymore, because i don't think she likes me preaching to her, but i am praying for her.

[JesusMySavior]

When i was talking to her a lot about it, it seemed she got tired of listening to it and quit caring. I'm not sure what to say anymore, because i don't think she likes me preaching to her, but i am praying for her.


She's got a new boyfriend; she doesn't want to hear any preaching from you....she's "better" now; she's got her quick fix.

That's how some people are, and when the rod of correction is spared, the person gets spoiled and hardened, and all they care about is the next fix. The best thing you can do is pray for her and perhaps God will speak to her heart to turn her around. :)

[window]

You may be right in saying that, but if what she says is really true, she had decided for him over me before i even knew the issue existed. And i know for sure that they were into each other before me and her were into each other.

[window]

But i will continue to pray for her

[Skipscan]

If she's not your girlfriend then there's not much you can do about it. Live and let live.

[Skipscan]

Sometimes the toughest thing to do in life is letting go. I've had my shares of ups and downs, and while it was tough for me to let go when I was younger, I can do it without any hesitation today. Move on and find yourself a Christian girlfriend. If you try to convince her that she's wrong for fooling around with guys, she won't listen. Nobody in history has ever changed his or her mind through arguing. The only way she'll change her mind is from a life altering experience. If you disagree with what I say, guess what. I can't change your mind. How much tougher will it be for you to change her mind? Don't let jealousy consume you. It's gonna eat away at you if you don't nip in the bud right now. Move on and find another girl.

[window]

I would say i have let go of her as a possible girlfriend, and I knew i might have to do that when it all started. I think expecting that has helped me to not be hurt too bad with that. I do not plan on letting go as a friend or maybe giving her advice. I do not think i am jealous because i don't really have negative thoughts toward her boyfriend, though i know he was and maybe still is jealous of me, but i don't really care.

I don't see how if she was my girlfriend that would change anything. Unless she is bound to not talk to me, which she is not, there isn't much of a difference on the subject. Just because i wouldn't go that far with her doesn't mean she wouldn't keep trying for it.

[Skipscan]

Sometimes you have to have ice in your veins. You just have to not care. I respect your stance on no lusting before marriage, but if you force that advice on this girl, you'll only be pushing her into doing the opposite. Girls are extremely rebellious as teens and that's why they go out with the boys their daddies hate the most. As crazy as it sounds, if you show her that you don't care, she'll start to listen to you. The old, do whatever you want, always works better than, you must listen to me, at least when it comes to teenagers. I'll pray for you so that you have strength and guidance to do the right things. We don't always know what they are, but with The Lord's help, the answers come to us.

[FaithfulSheep]

I am so sorry that I haven't gotten back to you until now. My memory is slipping. :(

Romans 13:14: But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts.

James 4:17: Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

This is copied from a post I made a few months ago, but I think it will be helpful to you now.

Romans 13:11-14

11 Besides this, knowing the time, it is already the hour for you to wake up from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is nearly over, and the daylight is near, so let us discard the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk with decency, as in the daylight: not in carousing and drunkenness; not in sexual impurity and promiscuity; not in quarreling and jealousy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no plans to satisfy the fleshly desires.

As followers of Christ we should be bearing fruit that shows we are who we say we are. Are you bearing love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control? In order to bear the right fruit, we must plant the right seeds. And in order to do this, we must discard the deeds of darkness.

We need to put on the armor of light, and of goodness, the armor of God so that we might be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.

Walking with decency. Decency here can mean in dress, in actions, or even in speech. We should be living our lives in a way that is in line with the calling of the Lord. Ephesians 5:15 says "Pay careful attention, then, to how you walk - not as unwise people, but as wise - making the most of the time for the days are evil.

Put on (Strong's 1746). The words "put on" here are used in the same way as when we are told in Ephesians to "put on" the full armor of God. ((1746. enduo en-doo'-o from 1722 and 1416 (in the sense of sinking into a garment); to invest with clothing (literally or figuratively):--array, clothe (with), endue, have (put) on. ))

When we think of dressing ourselves in the armor of God for protection from evil, reading the passage from Ephesians we think of dressing or covering ourselves up in something. In the same way, when we "put on the Lord Jesus", we need to cover ourselves in Him... in our dress, in our actions, and in our speech. We need to be imitators of Christ.

Go and read the red section from Romans again. And one more time. Notice it does not say not to satisfy the flesh. No, it goes even further. It says not to even PLAN to sin. How many times have you said to yourself, "I know this is wrong" or "I know I shouldn't do this" and then you do it anyway, knowingly and willfully sinning. You don't have to say it out loud. You know what, I've done it too. More times than I care to admit. On our own, we may not have the power to overcome this fleshly desire. But with God, we do have the power, and we can be victorious!

[window]

Thank you for the verses.

I am not completely sure what i will do. Last night we were talking and i asked her to look up 1 Corinthians 6:18 and to think about it. I told her she was to the point where she needed to decide what kind of Christian she wanted to be. I hope that was the right thing to say. She didn't text me back but it was late and in the past she has tended to fall asleep at the most random times. I am running out of things to say to her about it (and maybe that isn't all that bad) so i might just tell her to really think about it and come back to me if she wants any advice.

[window]

update on the situation: The other day I was talking to her and told her to read 1 Corinthians 6:18 i think it was, talking about running from sexual sin. She said she didn't have a clue what it meant but i bet she had a pretty good idea. I explained it to her and she agreed. she thanked me for warning her (i'm assuming that was sarcasm, but it was in a text) and basically said she didn't care. I don't really feel i am in any position to tell her anything because she seems to know it all. Unless something else convincing comes up i guess i will just be praying for her and trying to be a friend. Thank you for the help.

[HisLeast]

Hey Window,
In what little experience I've gained in my 31 years, I'll tell ya straight. You can't help someone who doesn't want help, or doesn't think they need it. That's why I really hope you don't see it as your mission to save her from herself. The best thing you can do is warn her, pray for her, and be there for her if and when she crashes.

[Skipscan]

HL is correct. You can't rescue a girl who doesn't want to be rescued.

[Quickened]

update on the situation: The other day I was talking to her and told her to read 1 Corinthians 6:18 i think it was, talking about running from sexual sin. She said she didn't have a clue what it meant but i bet she had a pretty good idea. I explained it to her and she agreed. she thanked me for warning her (i'm assuming that was sarcasm, but it was in a text) and basically said she didn't care. I don't really feel i am in any position to tell her anything because she seems to know it all. Unless something else convincing comes up i guess i will just be praying for her and trying to be a friend. Thank you for the help.

Obviously i can only go off of what was posted in this thread.

Window, you are handling this quite well. I see you approaching this situation with wisdom. You are aware of Gods Word and you have not faltered regarding that.

I like how you are approaching this with scripture. If she is a Christian she really needs to see what God's word says. The reoccurring theme I am seeing is that you are sounding the horn and it seems to be falling on deaf ears. I see she at least acknowledges what you are saying but is moving forward based on her own wants and desires.

Its always alarming to see someone who claims to be a christian, listen to a scriptual rebuke and then head straightforward into sin, or a situation most likely steeped in temptation. it always comes across as willful disobedience.

You reference to 1Cor 6 is a good one. Did you continue into chapter 7? Verse 2-5 is something that strikes me. First off is the apostle addressing something common not only in the Corinthian church but elsewhere and that is sexual temptation. The words of solomon come to mind when he said "there is nothing new under the sun".

What i am seeing here is some encouragement to be married here. Obviously we know that sexual relations inside of marriage are not only good but a healthy part of the union between the husband and wife. Someone that is prone to that temptation is prone while they are yet single.

In our day and age it is more difficult because how open our society is with relationships and sex. It is common for the severity of this sin to be downplayed or flat out ignored.

I would be hesitant to urge someone into marriage simply because they have lust issues but it does raise some thoughts. Depending on the age of the individual they should acknowledge these temptations openly and honestly. Because of these temptations Paul urges the church at Corinth here to marry. The desire to partake in these activities will not have subsided but in the institute of marriage there is no sin to be had in the sexual union with the husband/wife.

This is touched on again in verse 9

1Co 7:9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

After all this falls into God's blueprint. We were called to go forth and multiply. The man was called to leave his parents and cleave to His wife and become one flesh. Not that this the Lords will for everyone and thats why Paul goes on to talk about the benefits of those that can stay single.

Paul really goes into good detail addressing the topic here. Its not vauge in the sense that people could misinterpret what he is saying.

He clearly opposes sexual immorality, he recognizes a certain value in remaining unmarried. He can give certain reasons why a Christian can stay single but He corrects those that demand celibacy.

But in this particular issue when we apply what Paul has been saying here to the situation or perhaps we could pretend that we are in Pauls time and the letter was written just for this situation ... either way the result is rather clear.

As you have acknowedged we are to flee from sexual temptation. In this case it seems to be something that she has struggled with. She has already been involved with "statutory rape". The word rape there is misleading because it implies things forced against her will when statutory rape really is engaging these activities with a minor ...willing or not.

Taking that into consideration I can see that she has struggled with this issue. The fact that Statutory part puts her at under the age of 18 (i didnt see an age listed in this thread). Its a tough age group not only because she is going to most likely lack knowledge in spiritual matters she is also going to lack maturity to make the right decisions regarding these matters.

You have handled it quite well. You have come across mature and learned in this thread. I can only image you did the same in speaking with her. I would continue to discuss scriptures with her for the time being because chances are you are the only person that may be doing this.

Keep yourself guarded at all times though because who knows... she may try something with you again. Temptation has a way of doing that.

I am not exactly sure that this is an issue of "casting pearls before swine". I think after a good duration of you sharing these verses with her or talking about it and she still has yet to change her ways then its time to move on and let it go. You can only do so much and learning when to break away is clutch.

You are the only person who will know when that time comes. Stay in constant prayer regarding this! Let us know what comes of it

[Skipscan]

18 is legal age in only a handful of states. Legal age of consent is actually 16 in most states. Depending on what state window is from, statutory might not even be the case right now.

[window]

@Quickened

Thank you for the reply.

I see she at least acknowledges what you are saying but is moving forward based on her own wants and desires.

I am sure this is the case because yesterday i was talking to a mutual friend of ours who said that she basically told him in school she wanted a guy who would get in her pants. Isn't it usually the guy who wants this, not the girl?

As you have acknowedged we are to flee from sexual temptation. In this case it seems to be something that she has struggled with. She has already been involved with "statutory rape". The word rape there is misleading because it implies things forced against her will when statutory rape really is engaging these activities with a minor ...willing or not.

Yes i know this. I told her this before i knew the situation and i think it made her pretty mad. It was when she was 13 and i believe it was a psychological thing because of a situation that happened with the guy two years earlier, but i couldn't tell for sure.

She is 16 now

I'm not sure how much more i can talk to her without her being ready to quit talking to me all together. I do know a friend of hers who is an adult told her this new boyfriend was not the best for a few different reasons ( age difference, he is still married, he has a child) and she didn't respond to that and hasn't replied to any other normal friendly texts since then. I probably could keep adding little hints and things in but it would probably be best to not make a big deal out of it. at this point, if i am just annoying it probably wont help. What other verses could i use? I'm not sure what else i could say to get the point across more than i already have.

[window]

Skipscan,

18 is legal age in only a handful of states. Legal age of consent is actually 16 in most states. Depending on what state window is from, statutory might not even be the case right now.

It is looking like that is correct from a few different sources but i talked to a police at my church who said people basically make up their own rules about it , and if they are not within three years of eachother, it is illegal. So i'm not completely sure.

[Skipscan]

In which state are you? I can tell you what legal age of consent is in that state. If you're in California or Florida, 18 is legal age, but if you're in Ohio or New Jersey, 16 is legal age. 18 being legal age only applies to a handful of states. Most people believe it's 18 throughout the USA, but that's a misconception and it needs to be addressed because many parents aren't careful enough with their teens. If your teen is 17 and having relations with an adult, the odds are against you that any law was broken. That's something to think about.

[window]

It is Arkansas and i have read that the age of consent is 16, but a police telling you this is pretty convincing.

[Skipscan]

You mean your police officer friend? Trust me when I tell you that police officers who've been on the job for a while forget many aspects of the law. They remember how to Miranda perps and the 10 codes, but not much else. I was involved in law enforcement many years ago, but that's all I'll say about that matter. Let's suppose 18 is legal age in the state where the dating couple live. The bf can not transport his gf across state lines where legal age is 16 just to have relations with her. That is illegal, but if they both reside in a state where 16 is legal age, the bf can not be charged with statutory rape. Actual rape, yes, statutory, no. Your friend is wrong, window. I can assure you that I'm not someone who "makes up his own rules". Your ladyfriend has reached the legal age of consent in your state. I'm just stating the facts for you, my friend.