Confused & Desperate Dad: Daughter wants to marry wrong guy

[Terp4Life]

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I have read everything the psychologists say about keeping your mouth shut (and your door open) when your adult children head down the wrong path. But we need Christian advice. I am praying hard for wisdom. If you have any opinions for me, a tired old Dad, don't hold back. I believe God is preparing to counsel me through my Christian brothers and sisters.

Our 29-year-old daughter, Katie, lives in another city. She is about to be engaged to Sean, who is 31, unemployed, and spends all day on the internet and at the gym.

He just started 2 online classes toward an IT degree, but he is years away from meaningful employment, given the economic climate and his lack of experience. Sean is constantly broke and mooches off my daughter and the kindness of friends, all the while bragging that he has "learned to live within his means." They have had one date in a year--he bought concert tickets to see a band HE likes.

Katie was laid off from her job as an attorney last summer, around the time she started going out with Sean, but is managing to pay her mortgage through legal contract work until she finds another job.

We are far from perfect, but we try to be a loving and giving family. My wife and I have kept an open mind about this young man. We counsel him about education, help him with clothing and groceries, pay his way wherever we go, and try to believe in him.

Sean is an angry, eye-rolling person, always blaming his parents for his situation. In a year, we have never seen him smile. He isn't speaking to his only sibling. But we are teachers, and we have seen kids from far worse circumstances somehow manage to stay upbeat and positive, with real goals for their lives.

This weekend marked a turning point. Sean and Katie came with us to a family reunion, and there were many times when he was rude, both to our daughter and to us. He rolls his eyes contantly, which seems like the height of contempt. At one point, we asked if Sean could do us a favor and help Katie's brother in his upcoming move. Sean's answer: "I won't do it because he can't pay me enough."


Katie is quite fragile right now, though she does have a close personal relationship with the Lord. On the way home in the car, we overheard Sean berating her, "You're not a lawyer." (Translation: "You lost your job so you're not a lawyer."

I almost turned around and said to him, "Katie put herself through law school and passed the New York bar (no small feat). D@%# right she's a lawyer!"

Her brothers say she settled for Sean because she thinks she can't do any better. Moreover, her younger sister is getting married this summer, and Katie will be embarrassed if she's not engaged by the time of the wedding.

Please tell me how to keep my mouth shut. How am I supposed to sit silently and watch my precious girl walk into a disaster? Should I just leave it alone and trust that she will learn from her mistakes, the way we learn from ours? What if I turn out to be wrong about Sean, and I end up estranged from them?

Please pray for us. God bless you all.

[livingwaters]

Being a parent of three children, two of them daughters, I offer my sympathy in this situation. Not knowing Katie, it's hard to say what may or may not work....if she is still open to you and her mother, possibly you could set up a meeting with the pastor and his wife...they could give her the biblical views, which are the only ones that truly matter. My youngest daughter knows the Lord, goes to church, reads her Bible, but, honestly she has put up with men that no more want to know God than the man in the moon. I ask her why and she said, Mama, I honestly don't know why...I tell her she is a wonderful mother of three beautiful children, they are well-mannered and respect their elders. She works everyday, and has mostly through the years, done it alone. She doesn't need their income....so, go figure....this one she's with now, stays at her house, which I already have commented according to what the Bibles says to her about that....she says there is no "intimacy" going on....so, I asked, then what is the point????? I said, you are constantly angry, complaining, and at your wits end......I don't have a clue!!!!! The men she has been acquainted with never had much ambition are self-worth. I praise her and tell her that the Lord has blessed her tremendously and I ask why would you want to go against God's Word...I tell her that God will chastise HIS children. She may not be ready for what HE deals out!!! Still, she knows all of this, her and her latest have met with the pastor, the deacon, and her guy put on the show of accepting Jesus as his Savior, but his actions or should I say "the fruit" has not started bearing one bit....so, with all that said, all you can do is try to get a meeting setup....Sean will probably never agree to such a meeting, but fro what you say, she needs to go alone, anyway!!!

I tell you, it's tough when you know they are headed down the wrong path and they won't listen. But, if she knows the Lord, I pray that HE will give her the wisdom she needs before she does anything stupid!!! (sorry) Our God has such patience and love for us, but the Bible tells us HE has a limit, also.

God bless and I will pray that the Lord intervene in this mismatched situation!!!!:hug:

[DaveS]

Hey Terp. Unfortunately I don't have any advice for you, but man do I feel your pain. All I can do is relate my (similar) story. Since the final chapter hasn't been written yet I still can't say whether I did the right thing.

I have four daughters, all of them grown. My two eldest were in relationships (at different times) that I was not at all crazy about. Both are married to those men today.

The oldest came to me when she was 18 and told me she was dating an older man. Not too much older, but old enough; he was 23. He also had a child already by another woman. My daughter was always an obedient child so we had a long talk which ended with me (strongly) advising her to stop the relationship, at least for now, and I assumed that was the end of that. Silly me, like I said, they are married today. There seems to be no end to the grief she goes through being a step-mom, with the ex, who is of course the worst human being God ever created according to her. They have their problems but they're hanging in there. Like I said, the final chapter isn't written yet. I still don't know if a stronger hand would have been better or worse.

My second oldest insisted on staying with this boy who, to my mind, had serious issues not unlike the one you've described. Life has dealt him a bad hand and his misfortune is everyone else's fault. She was younger than the other daughter when this started so I had a little more control (or so I thought). We talked, we yelled, we talked some more, we yelled some more. Finally (after about two years of this) I said, Ok, If this is the man you want, I've said enough, I won't say any more. I don't believe this guy is right for you, but this is the last time you'll hear me say it. I've kept to that promise to this day, not only in word but in attitude (I hope). We have accepted this young man into the family and I try to take every opportunity to make him feel a part. They've been married for six years now and there have been times that I've wanted to go over and pound the living daylights out of him. He doesn't work. She works and he stays home with my grandchildren. He doesn't do very well at it in my opinion, or in hers. But I keep my opinions to myself.

All I know to do at this point is to continue praying for my daughters. They're hanging in there so far, but not as happy as I wish they were.

Should I have prevented them? I still don't know. I don't even know if I could have. But I'm trusting the Lord to bring them through, the same way He brought my wife and I through.

But that's another story, and not as different as I sometimes pretend. :)

The Lord bless and keep you all.
Dave

[jayne]

I'm a big believer in talking to each other. You will have no peace if they marry and you and Katie did not talk to each other about how you feel.

Just a few thoughts come to my mind.

She probably already knows that you "aren't fond" of Sean. And the thought of having a conversation about him with you probably isn't high on her list. She doesn't want the confrontation.

But if you start up with the right open-ended questions, she'll talk.

Don't say, "I'm not happy with Sean." (This is the same thing as saying that you are not happy with her, because she did choose him.)
DO say, "Does spending the rest of your life with Sean, just the way he is right now, make you happy?"

Don't say, "I don't like the way he treats you." (Again, this will make her feel incompetent for choosing a man that you think is wrong for her. She will take it to me that she let you down.)
DO say, "Tell me the things that Sean does for you that makes you secure and safe and happy."

Don't give her a list of all of his bad traits. (She already knows them.)
DO ask her to tell you the top five things that she is looking for in a "hypothetical" husband.

You could even ask her to look at the following list and pick out the top five characteristics that she feels she needs from a husband. Ask her if Sean meets her criteria.

intregity ..... looks ..... financial security ..... salvation ..... compassion ..... spiritual growth ..... love of children ..... goal-oriented ..... realistic thinking ..... dreamer ..... respect for others ..... love ..... selflessness ..... self-respect ..... intelligence ..... hard worker ..... friendship ..... family-oriented ..... maturity

Don't say, "He will make a terrible husband."
DO say, "Would you sit with me and let's read the passages from the Bible about what God says a good husband should be?"

Read the scriptures with her. Ask her if you could pray together for her to have Godly wisdom and for Sean to be molded into the likeness of a man who will represent Christ in his marriage - whether it is to her or someone else.

And ....

Don't say, "What can I do to make you break it off with him?"
DO say, "What can I do as your father to help Sean become a better man and to make you feel like a worthy human being whether you marry him or not?"

Just my two cents. God bless you and your family.

Pray for her and pray with her.

[tt1106]

Honey Sean sometimes appears to intentionally or unintentionally hurt your feelings. This is not an example of the kind of love that Christ demonstrated and we have a hard time seeing it. It does not make us happy to see someone we care about so deeply treated unfavorably. After that I'd call it a day, because they are allowed to make their own mistakes just like we do.
Be there when they cry out and point them towards Christ. and try to love them through it. I have 3 daughters, all under 18, so I feel your pain and will probably experience very similar ones in the future. The best thing you can give to them is a loving father who is upright and virtuous. It sounds like you have done that, now they have to grow up on their own.

Blessings.

tt1106

[Vhayes]

Hi Terp -

I only read your post and not the replies you have had, so this may have been said already. If so, I apologize.

You said something that struck me:
I have read everything the psychologists say about keeping your mouth shut (and your door open) when your adult children head down the wrong path.No matter what anyone may tell you, adult children need to hear what their parents think about life altering decisions. I sought my mothers advice when she was still alive. My husband and I have two adult children and one adult foster child - they all ask our advice on things. It's a collective wisdom thing. We talk things over - no one starts out by telling the other they are "making a mistake" or anything accusatory, just talking over our thoughts and what we truly feel.

Try to put yourself in Katie's shoes - she has a younger sibling who will be getting married soon. I'm sure the family as a whole is excited about that. Then you have Katie who is attached to this guy who is a user. She HAS to know it; after all, she's the one who hears his snarky remarks and sees him doing nothing all day. Yet, you aren't "showing" any concern. Katie may feel you are all so wrapped up in her sister that you aren't seeing what is happening to her. She may be completely confused and conflicted because she feels responsible for this guy that she no longer likes, let alone loves, yet no one is asking her why she is still with him.

Encourage her to talk about what she is feeling right now - the job loss and how that effected her self esteem, her sisters upcoming wedding and how she views that and the way it will effect her relationship with her sister, how you are proud of her for finding a way of making ends meet in a tough economic climate. See where the open exchange of loving thoughts carries you. I'm not saying to condemn this guy to her - just to tell her you are concerned about her.

I'll keep you in my prayers the next few days. This has to be a tough situation for you.

V

[turtledove]

I think you need to say something to her about him and his actions. It doesn't mean you aren't supporting her..actually under these circumstances given the type of behavior you share about him..the wise thing to do is to say something. But, be sure and pray for the right moment to do so. And never act at a time when you are feeling personally insulted or angry at her boyfriend. Share when you are at peace and feel God's strength. Like I said..pray first and probably more than once.

In the event she decides to marry him anyway..you will have spoken the truth to her in a loving way and won't regret "not" saying something. Obviously she thinks she is in love and isn't thinking very clearly about his lack of attributes and how the future could be married to someone who is not productive and dependent as he appears to be.

If she were posting here I sure would advice her against keeping up this one sided relationship and against marrying him unless he makes some efforts to take responsibility and change. Any Christian counselor would do the same. And whether he is or isn't a Christian does enter into this as well. Even if he is one..is he behaving like a responsible Christian adult should? And, as you describe, she likely needs help and maybe pastoral counseling beyond what you can say as her parent. She needs counseling based on a biblical perspective to develop more confidence in herself and believe that, indeed, she deserves better.

I am praying that God will give you just the right words and because she does have a relationship with the Lord she will weigh your comments and appreciate the love and concern you show. If she refuses to listen..then, since she is an adult, you'll have to accept her decision; but keep loving her and praying for her. It may take more than one conversation with her as well.

peace and blessings,

turtledove

[Gregg]

I'm a big believer in talking to each other. You will have no peace if they marry and you and Katie did not talk to each other about how you feel.

Just a few thoughts come to my mind.

She probably already knows that you "aren't fond" of Sean. And the thought of having a conversation about him with you probably isn't high on her list. She doesn't want the confrontation.

But if you start up with the right open-ended questions, she'll talk.

Don't say, "I'm not happy with Sean." (This is the same thing as saying that you are not happy with her, because she did choose him.)
DO say, "Does spending the rest of your life with Sean, just the way he is right now, make you happy?"

Don't say, "I don't like the way he treats you." (Again, this will make her feel incompetent for choosing a man that you think is wrong for her. She will take it to me that she let you down.)
DO say, "Tell me the things that Sean does for you that makes you secure and safe and happy."

Don't give her a list of all of his bad traits. (She already knows them.)
DO ask her to tell you the top five things that she is looking for in a "hypothetical" husband.

You could even ask her to look at the following list and pick out the top five characteristics that she feels she needs from a husband. Ask her if Sean meets her criteria.

intregity ..... looks ..... financial security ..... salvation ..... compassion ..... spiritual growth ..... love of children ..... goal-oriented ..... realistic thinking ..... dreamer ..... respect for others ..... love ..... selflessness ..... self-respect ..... intelligence ..... hard worker ..... friendship ..... family-oriented ..... maturity

Don't say, "He will make a terrible husband."
DO say, "Would you sit with me and let's read the passages from the Bible about what God says a good husband should be?"

Read the scriptures with her. Ask her if you could pray together for her to have Godly wisdom and for Sean to be molded into the likeness of a man who will represent Christ in his marriage - whether it is to her or someone else.

And ....

Don't say, "What can I do to make you break it off with him?"
DO say, "What can I do as your father to help Sean become a better man and to make you feel like a worthy human being whether you marry him or not?"

Just my two cents. God bless you and your family.

Pray for her and pray with her.

What a wonderful post.

Full of love and wisdom.

[NotMyOwn]

This may sound harsh to a degree, but you as a parent have not helped the situation at all by "helping him with clothing and groceries, pay his way wherever you we go". It's clear from his behavior that no adult, especially his own parents have forced him to grow up. The first thing I think you should do is stop aiding him in this manner.

If your daughter sees that you are willing to help out financially with his needs, then that within itself allows a certain amount of security in her desire to marry him.

Unless your daughter sees his overall behavior a a detriment to a meaningful relationship, then at some point you may have to allow them to fail.

In the mean time, you need to keep loving her and counseling her on what she should do, but ultimately it is her decision to continue this relationship or not. It does seem that you need to build up her self esteem, if she is running into a relationship only to beat out her younger sister.

Above all else, keep praying for her.

[My_King]

I have no children, so I can't speak from a parent's point of view. But I can, however, speak from a SISTER'S point of view easily....

My sister became engaged to a man that I believed to be the WRONG man for her. The MAIN thing was that he was not a Christian. I wanted to sit down with her and tell her my feelings on this issue, but my husband forbade it and told me it was none of my business.

So I kept my mouth shut.

Oh how I wish I'd said something. They married. They have two wonderful and beautiful children. However, my sister is so miserable and broken, it breaks my heart and I feel guilty for NOT having said something.

With that in mind, I'd say it's ok to say what is in your heart. HOWEVER - I do believe it's important to say it with grace, with love, say it with words that don't make your daughter feel rejected, or attacked. I'd also pray about it first and ask God to give you the words to say, if you're supposed to say anything at all.

Only God can give you the "ok" to share your true feelings.

And - maybe it's not your daughter you should be talking to. Maybe you should be discussing her b/f's behavior with HIM. Something along the lines how you're concerned about his disrespect of YOUR WIFE and YOUR DAUGHTER. You're your wife's protector, it's ok to tell someone it's NOT OK to disrespect her. Again, all of this said in love and grace is best.

I wish I had stepped up to the plate and told my sister my true feelings. I don't know if she'd have married him anyway - probably would have. But at least I wouldn't have to feel badly about it. I could have simply said, "You're an adult and you can make your own choices, but I need to tell you my thoughts on this because I love you."

I'm praying for you and your daughter. God bless you.

[Twin2]

I do have adult children, although mine are a bit younger. I have learned with my children that I can't control them. If I give advice, I cannot be very direct because they get so offended. Jayne offered wonderful advice about wording things. I wish I could word things better.

The one thing I have learned is that if my children seek the Lord, they do much better. I honestly feel that during a very long trial concerning my adult children, the Lord told me to trust him. I can't do the work. During that time, a friend of mine, told me she would say to her son, "Be ready for the rapture". I actually said that to my son shortly before he came back to the Lord.

For your daughter, I don't know how to advise you about what to say, or what not to say. I will say pray for her soul, that she will draw closer to the Lord and let him lead her. She may be a Christian, but we can all afford a closer walk. Encourage her to seek the Lord on this matter. Encourage her to know that she is a wonderful woman, with or without this man. Maybe you could remind her of times that people in the Bible waited on the Lord and were so blessed. Maybe you could point out some times when people in the Bible compromised something and there was a price to pay. Maybe keep your comments towards the Lord and receiving his blessings, and not so much about the man.

I hate to hear of a woman settling for a man, if in fact that is what she is doing. She sounds like a hardworking individual who has accomplished quite a bit in her life. She doesn't need someone else to pull her down. Then again, what is God's will?

[SpiritualDAD]

Hi, I have to ask you how you know he is the wrong guy? Does he have a spiritual family? Does he have anyone praying for him?

Here's a thought provoking theme. What if someone has been praying for Sean to have a good Christian woman to come into his life. Obviously you have been praying for a good Christian man to come into your daughters life (I hope).

What (or who's) prayer does God answer?

Obviously Sean has some rough edges but can you see any good points to his character or his personality?

Can you look through your daughters eyes and see what she sees?

If you can, then I can say with certainty that you are just the man to help Sean be the man of God that you want for your daughter.

Pray hard that doors will be opened and doors will be closed and BELIEVE that your prayers will be answered. remember, don't pray for what you want, pray for God's will. Also get others to pray passionately with you...Remember "where one or two pray in my name I am there".

The sad thing is there are very few spiritual fathers out there anymore and I am challenging you to become one for your daughters sake.

Everyone responds to unconditional love. We can move mountains together with God when we display unconditional love.

I'm 59 with 4 daughters 17, 20, 23 and 26. I have a sense of what you are going through. My 26 year old married a man I felt uncomfortable with at first. He came from a troubled and violent background with a dysfunctional family. He was religious but not very spiritual! Before they married I prayed about it (This is even after my daughter told me she believed this was God's will that she marry him) and God asked me to have him live with us for 6 months before they were married (not with my daughter). God wanted him to know what a functional Christian family was like. I took him under my wing and treated him like a son. He changed so dramatically for the better. They still live with us 18 months after they got married and I am still able to input into his growth. He is now the Man of God my daughter deserves and is the spiritual leader of that household of 2.

I am a youth worker and am an itinerant pastor. God asked me some years ago to fill the breach as a spiritual father for young men. I was shocked and felt uncomfortable with the call but he sent them along nevertheless. I don't always make the right decision but that just makes me depend on God more.

For other fathers out there...pray hard that God will protect and keep your children's future partners safe and pure...pray for protection and purity for your daughters...every day...every day without fail!

Remember, "fathers, don't provoke your children to anger..." It's OK to share your concerns with your daughter but own your own feelings when talking to her and don't make her feel guilty about the relationship.

If after all your prayer and "unconditional love" efforts she decides she is going to marry him, then give your blessing and welcome him into your family. Without the blessing the marriage will probably fail and that will cause much grief for your daughter and you.

My God bless you and give you the wisdom you need to make the right decisions.