John Chapter 15

[Momof5]

I am a little later than I thought in getting this started.......:hug:

NKJV John 15

1) "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.

2) Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

3) You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

4) Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

[Debra R]

I am a little later than I thought in getting this started.......:hug:

NKJV John 15

1) "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.

2) Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

3) You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

4) Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.


:) Good morning, :hug:


I looked this up in the Jamieson, Fausset, Brown Commentary

1-8. The spiritual oneness of Christ and His people, and His relation to them as the Source of all their spiritual life and fruitfulness, are here beautifully set forth by a figure familiar to Jewish ears (Isa 5:1, &c.).

I am the true vine--of whom the vine of nature is but a shadow.
my Father is the husbandman--the great Proprietor of the vineyard, the Lord of the spiritual kingdom. (It is surely unnecessary to point out the claim to supreme divinity involved in this).

2. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit . . . every branch that beareth fruit--As in a fruit tree, some branches may be fruitful, others quite barren, according as there is a vital connection between the branch and the stock, or no vital connection; so the disciples of Christ may be spiritually fruitful or the reverse, according as they are vitally and spiritually connected with Christ, or but externally and mechanically attached to Him. The fruitless He "taketh away" (see on Joh 15:6); the fruitful He "purgeth" (cleanseth, pruneth)--stripping it, as the husbandman does, of what is rank (Mr 4:19), "that it may bring forth more fruit"; a process often painful, but no less needful and beneficial than in the natural husbandry.

3. Now--rather, "Already."
ye are clean through--by reason of.
the word I have spoken to you--already in a purified, fruitful condition, in consequence of the long action upon them of that searching "word" which was "as a refiner's fire" (Mal 3:2, 3).

4. Abide in me, and I in you; as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine, &c.--As all spiritual fruitfulness had been ascribed to the mutual inhabitation, and living, active interpenetration (so to speak) of Christ and His disciples, so here the keeping up of this vital connection is made essential to continued fruitfulness.

Blessings:hug:

[Momof5]

2) Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;.........

Let's talk about this.....what does this mean? I have read two different things - that it could mean "take away" or "lift up."

[TameVine]

I believe this is talking about a person who is a believer who gets away from the things of the word ( for whatever reason) and stops bearing fruit. It is impossible to be in the world and not become dirtied by the things we encounter each day. We have to continually washed clean in Gods word. it is our cleansing agent. If we fail to abide in the vine, our branches withers from self imposed , starvation. Just like a real grape vine, it needs to be tended, pruned, nurishes with food and nutients. It will not bear fruit without it.

a very true example we women can attest to in our own lives. I dont know if any here have ever suffered from anorexia, or who have dieted to the point where your body will no longer have a menstraul cycle. Well I have. When you starve your body of the necessary nutrition is needs, your cycels will stop and you will no longer be able to bear children. You see this alot in female athetes.

Abide in true nurishment and your body will function in a healthy manner and your cycle will start again.

now the words above that say "takes away", some would say this means you can lose your salvation, but the same word is interpreted as "lift up" in other places in the word. It is the word, airo , This interpretation would mean that it needs positive input. It needs to be lifted up and helped along the way, with tending and sunlight. It needs to be feed postive nutrients to get back to where it once was.

This is what the vine dresser does. He tends the weakened vine and brings it back to health again.

*************
T

[Momof5]

Thanks, T! That's how I see it too.

I am going to add an old post by BadDog who graciously found this for me:

Originally Posted By BadDog
John 15:8 By this My Father is Glorified… that you bear much fruit and so prove to be My disciples.

John 15:1-6 (NLT - sort of) ->
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He **takes away** (this is a poor translation) every branch that doesn't produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. 3 You have already been pruned because of what I have said to you. 4 Stay joined to me, and I will stay joined to you. Just as a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, you cannot be fruitful apart from me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who stay joined to me, and I to them, will produce much fruit. Because detached from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone doesn’t stay joined to me he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned."

What are some difficulties with this illustration that Jesus used? Here are some apparent conclusions that can be drawn. We will see that some are true, & some not true:
Real Christians will produce fruit.
If we do not remain joined to the vine (abide in Christ or obey Him) we will be thrown into the lake of fire (vs. 6).
If we do not bear fruit, we will lose our salvation (vs. 2).
If we are in fellowship with Christ we will be fruitful.
We cannot do anything for God unless we are in intimate union with Christ.

What was the big idea that Jesus was teaching here?
John 15 begins as Jesus and the eleven arrive at the Mount of Olives, filled with its many vineyards and orchards, just hours before his death. As He often did, Jesus used an object lesson - making use of the grapevines before them as a picture of the relationship He desired His disciples to have with Him. As Jesus is speaking these words, His disciples are clustered about Him. He is the Vine. They are the branches.The branches are arranged in two classes: fruitless and fruitful. The vine dresser - gardner has a task in regard to each.

The KJV says, " Every branch in me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it might bring forth more fruit." ( verse 2 )

The verse as it reads in the King James suggests severance from the main vine, the result of cutting or pruning by a vine dresser who has lost patience with an unproductive branch. But this is not so! That was not what Jesus was teaching His disciples.

There are three keys that are essential in correctly understanding this passage:
Don't misunderstand the relationship between verses 2 and 6.
Don't be misled by the reference to "fire" in verse 6 - it does NOT refer to hell or the lake of fire! (Going down THAT road again, you ask. )
Don't misunderstand what is being done to the fruitless branch in verse 2.
Don't assume that vs. 2 and vs. 6 are talking about the same pruning period.[

*** The big idea of this passage is the importance of remaining in fellowship with Christ so that we can be fruitful.

Christ wanted His disciples to be fruitful. We must not lose track of this key. IMO, that fruitfulness refers to people being brought into the kingdom, though some make a strong argument for the fruit of the Spirit - character. IMO John 15:16 seems to indicate that He's referring to people here. Here's the NET with their footnote on it:
John 15:16 -> "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that remains43, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you."
43 The purpose for which the disciples were appointed ("commissioned") is to go and bear fruit, fruit that remains. The introduction of the idea of "going" at this point suggests that the fruit is something more than just character qualities in the disciples' own lives, but rather involves fruit in the lives of others, i.e., Christian converts. There is a mission involved (cf. John 4:36). The idea that their fruit is permanent, however, relates back to vv. 7-8, as does the reference to asking the Father in Jesus' name. It appears that as the imagery of the vine and the branches develops, the "fruit" which the branches produce shifts in emphasis from qualities in the disciples' own lives in John 15:2, 4, 5 to the idea of a mission which affects the lives of others in John 15:16. The point of transition would be the reference to fruit in 15:8.

Now here's some critical vineyard background stuff (Horticulture)->

In the spring, as the grapes are just beginning to grow on the vines, a light trimming is done – removing sprigs which steal nutriments from the developing fruit. No burning of such twigs is done – there's not enough to fuel a fire so it wouldn't even be possible. Those young branches which were not going to produce fruit that season were lifted up off the ground and placed on trellises to improve aeration.
In the fall, after the grapes are harvested (and you cannot tell which branches had been fruitful and which had not), a heavy pruning and cutting back is done and dead and useless branches are also removed. They are then gathered into piles and burned.
Verse 2 is referring to spring pruning, while verse 6 refers to the heavy fall cutting back of branches – which are then burned.

FYI - for those who want to do some research:
Author of an article in Dallas Theological Siminary’s Bibliotheca Sacra journal # 153: Dr. Gary Derickson professor of Biblical Studies at Western Baptist College in Salem, Oregon. He got his Th.D from DTS, and also holds BS and MS degrees in horticulture from Texas A&M and taught grape-pruning as a TA there. He grew up on a family-owned vineyard.

Greek stuff:
"takes away" vs. "lifts up" ->
αίρω, AIRO - "To lift up." It can mean "to lift up and take away"… hence, to "take away." But the root idea and by far most common meaning in Koiné and classical Greek is to "lift up." It is used with both meanings in the NT. So context will be crucial, as usual.

***In horticulture, this refers to lifting up to place on a trellis.***

FYI, here's how Dr. Derickson views the passage - in my words but his ideas:
In the spring, pruning is done and also some branches which are laying on the ground are lifted up and placed on a trellis. To lay on the ground is harsh on these tender young branches - they get poor aeration, and they cannot be fruitful next season if left to lay on the ground. The idea is to improve the conditions for the branch so that it can produce more fruit. Heavy pruning is NEVER done in the Spring.

The word " purges" (NKJV) has been regarded as an act of cutting or severing. But this is not the intent of the Greek wording. The Greek word is καθαίρω, KATHAIRO. This word means " to cleanse." It is used to express a cleansing from useless shoots or little sprigs (on the branches). That means to prune - light pruning. This light pruning, as was said before, is done in the Spring so that the branch can have all of its nourishments going to the branches and they may be more fruitful.

But καθαίρω was also used as cleansing the conscience of guilt. So the root meaning has more to do with "wash" and cleansing than with cutting. Verse 3: "Now you(pl.) are clean through the word which I have spoken to you."

So the text should read: " Every branch in me that does bear not fruit, He lifts it up: and every branch that bears fruit, He cleans it, ( that is, having lifted it up, He washes away the dirt), and if necessary then, He trims it (prunes it) that it may bring forth more fruit."

This message would be fully appreciated in any vineyard, where for various reasons, the branches fall to the ground. Then, as the gardner comes to inspect his vineyard, he sees the branches in the dirt and with loving care lifts them up and cleanses them. He does whatever is necessary to repair any damage that has been done. Remember the means of cleansing was His own word ( verse 3). Does God use His Word to remove believers from the body of Christ?! I don't think so.

It is only when stubbornness of spirit and unresponsiveness in the soul resembles open rebellion that the Vine Dresser has to take more drastic measures. Then He has to choose between the health of the vine and a consistently unresponsive branch - the end is a foregone conclusion. "If anyone doesn’t stay joined to me he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers...."

When a withered branch threatens other branches and the disease begins to spread to other parts of the vine, the gardner removes the hindering branch from the place of productivity. All it does there is sap the strength of the vine. We've all known Christians I imagine who are not obedient and must be a real disappointment to the Lord. A child may be the son of his parents and yet be an extreme disappointment to those who brought him into the world. But that child remains their child. Similarly, though we may be disciplined severely, such discipline does not involve being removed the body of Christ, breaking that seal of the Holy Spirit and casting that person into hell.

This is where we need to be careful about going beyond what the story is teaching. Its focus is on fruitfulness - not on whether or not we can lose our salvation. Regarding that withered branch, IMO we see an example in 1 Corin. 11 in which Paul refers to Christians who were being extremely disrespectful of the Lord's table. The result was that many became sick and many died. IMO that would be God's ultimate action - to remove us from this earth where we are not only not being a positive influence on the world and drawing others to the Savior, but we are actually dragging down the body of Christ and perhaps even discouraging some from considering the Savior.

So the overarching thought in this text is not an act of judgment. It is not that of severing a disappointing fruitless, branch from the parent vine. Rather, it is the loving patience of a wise gardner who rejects nothing if there is the slightest chance of restoring a branch to full fruitfulness. Also, some of those lower branches that were dragging on the ground were too young to be expected to produce fruit that season. The idea that teaches falling from grace is foreign to the theme of this allegorical teaching. That wasn't the focus of this story. The focus is on fruitfulness, and we need to approach it from that perspective. God's great mercy does not impair His wisdom. When it becomes necessary to prune the branches, that is done. And as anyone knows who works in agriculture, pruning is done to nearly all of the branches - preparing them to be able to bear even more fruit next season - irrespective of their fruitfulness. Let's look at that:

Now in the fall (vs. 6), after the vines have been harvested, heavy pruning of branches is done as well as removing of dead branches. These are all thrown into the fire. One important point that must be made: in the fall, you cannot tell which of the branches had been fruitful and which had not been so fruitful when they are heavily pruned! The branches which are unfruitful are NOT the ones that are cut off and thrown into the fire, in general. Also, verses 2 and 6 are referring to two different times of the year - Spring (vs. 2) and Fall (vs. 6). They are indiscriminately severely/heavily pruned in the fall, but NOT in the Spring - just before harvest. This will in general result in a vine that will be more productive in the Spring. Thirdly, burning is NOT a euphemism for hell fire here.

Now let’s look at the passage again:
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He **lifts up** every branch that does not produce fruit [to place on a trellis], and he [lightly] prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. 3 You have already been pruned because of what I have said to you. 4 Stay joined to me, and I will stay joined to you. (most Bibles - abide) Just as a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, you cannot be fruitful apart from me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who stay joined to me, and I to them, will produce much fruit. Because detached from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone doesn’t stay joined to me he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned."

So then, in summary, just what did Jesus teach His disciples just hours before His death? ->
God prunes the fruit-bearing branch to maximize its productivity. (vs. 6)
God trains (lifts up) the non-bearing branch to prepare it for fruit bearing in the future.
Bottom line: Continued fruit bearing can only occur when the branch remains attached to the vine. (John 15:5, 6) That's the theme of this story.

Do you see the focus on fruitfulness? The Father wants us to be fruitful. We cannot be fruitful if we do not "abide" in Christ. I think that is a key to understanding this story. Jesus was not trying to teach on whether people could or could not lose their salvation... the purpose of the illustration was to illustrate the importance of abiding in fellowship with Him if we are going to be fruitful. It's safest to only draw conclusions regarding that. That's in general the hermaneutical principle that should be followed when interpreting parables and other allegorical structures.

So IMO, in the stories & illustrations that Jesus, Paul & others used, it is safest to draw conclusions regarding the main point of the story. If we start to ask ourselves what certain things stand for we'll miss what the Spirit is trying to teach us. Major on the major points of the story, & minor on the minor ones.

Now, let’s consider those difficulties again...
Real Christians will produce fruit. - False. And we are not to be "fruit-inspectors." Real Christians ARE changed. But if they do not follow Christ closely in discipleship, they will not be fruitful. That's the point of the allegory.
If we do not remain joined to the vine (Christ) we will be thrown into the lake of fire (vs. 6). - False (See above)
If we do not bear fruit, we will lose our salvation (vs. 2). - False
If we are in fellowship with Christ we will be fruitful. - True
We cannot do anything for God unless we are in intimate union with Christ. - True

I hope this gives you something to think about. FWIW, IMO Jesus did not always use the analogy of burning in terms of hell-fire. In 1 Corinthains 3, Paul clearly did not use it that way. In 1 Peter 3, Peter didn't use it that way either. In Hebrews 6, Barnabas (or whoever the author was) didn't use it that way, IMO. So don't assume hell-fire here. And remember the focus of the allegory - fruitfulness. If we do not abide in Christ we cannot bear fruit. I have taught on this principle to children and youth before. It's fun to bring in a branch I've just torn off of some fruit tree. I might jokingly talk about putting it in my bedroom and waiting for it to bear fruit. Of course, everyone looks at me like I'm an idiot. The I take a lightbulb and ask someone to hold it and "turn it on." Of course, since the lightbulb is separated from the power-source, it 's not going to light up. (I've also got a trick, magician's bulb which I CAN get to light up - for effect.)

But that is the point Jesus was teaching His disciples. We cannot bear fruit in our own strength - we must abide in Him.

Here is the entire thread : http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16588&highlight=John+15

[Momof5]

Good morning!:) Here's the next couple verses:

NKJV John

5) I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit, for without Me you can do nothing.

6) If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered, and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

7) If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.

8) By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, so you will be My disciples.

[Momof5]

I am going to add a few more verses.....:)

NKJV John

9) As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.

10) If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

11) These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full.

[Momof5]

**bump** anyone want to get this going again?:hug:

[Debra R]

**bump** anyone want to get this going again?:hug:

Hey Brenda, :hug:

I had forgotten what chapter we were on. :(
When you started this one is when Nathan had the biopsy and we found out about the other cancer.

I am glad you brought it up. We should finish it. I can't tonight, have to get to sleep soon. I have to get to work extra early in the morning. :(

I hope others join us in this one. We could use their help. :)

See ya later.
Love you sis, :kiss: :hug:
Deb

[Frances]

2) Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;........."

I've heard some 'amazing' interpretations on John 15:1-8 . . . .

Having grown grapes for many years it is quite simple to understand . . .

Each year all growth must be cut right back to the main stems. . . the basic 'framework' - which will have been trained in the first 3 years - is all that is left from year to year.

If the pruning is not severe enough, after the fuit is harvested, there will only be less fruit of poor quality the following year.

In the growing season, after the fruit has set, any branch that is not bearing fruit will be cut off - to allow all the available nourishment to enlarge the fruit. . . .

So Jesus was telling His disciples (who would all have understood the basics of growing grapes) that He would 'prune' a fruitful ministry hard - to ensure good quality spiritual fruit from them in the future. Ouch!!

[Momof5]

Hey Brenda, :hug:

I had forgotten what chapter we were on. :(
When you started this one is when Nathan had the biopsy and we found out about the other cancer.

I am glad you brought it up. We should finish it. I can't tonight, have to get to sleep soon. I have to get to work extra early in the morning. :(

I hope others join us in this one. We could use their help. :)

See ya later.
Love you sis, :kiss: :hug:
Deb

Hi Deb!:hug: I am so glad you want to continue and I too pray for others to join us.:)

I've heard some 'amazing' interpretations on John 15:1-8 . . . .

Having grown grapes for many years it is quite simple to understand . . .

Each year all growth must be cut right back to the main stems. . . the basic 'framework' - which will have been trained in the first 3 years - is all that is left from year to year.

If the pruning is not severe enough, after the fuit is harvested, there will only be less fruit of poor quality the following year.

In the growing season, after the fruit has set, any branch that is not bearing fruit will be cut off - to allow all the available nourishment to enlarge the fruit. . . .

So Jesus was telling His disciples (who would all have understood the basics of growing grapes) that He would 'prune' a fruitful ministry hard - to ensure good quality spiritual fruit from them in the future. Ouch!!

Thank you, Frances. I hope you will continue along with us.:hug:

[Cilla]

9) As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.

Wow! Can you even begin to try to understand that? I think it would do us all good to live in that verse!

[Momof5]

9) As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.

Wow! Can you even begin to try to understand that? I think it would do us all good to live in that verse!

Hi Cilla, my dear friend!:hug: Yes, think of that word "abide."

I have an old copy of Webster's Dictionary which defines abide as to await; endure; withstand; tolerate; to dwell; reside; continue; stand firm

[threebigrocks]

NKJV John



10) If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.



If we keep His commandments.

Ouch again! (I echo Frances in this one!)

Another reason that we cannot disallow the power of the law. We are still called to abide by the 10 commandments.

I can't get past this. So much of what I have read, without looking, has drawn me to the law and how it offers a completeness in Christ we cannot have without it. And, it would appear to also include that incredible agape love.

And, to know we are forgiven, and can abide in that love that was extended to the Son from the Father, well, we do not know how deep, nor how wide that love is.

Guess I'm in on this! :rolleyes:

[Debra R]

:hug: Hi, my sisters, :)

okay, I did a little reading on our study finally. :) And looked up a few cross references. Ain't you proud of me. :D
Things have been so hectic around here. And having bad days and good days. But our God is good. Without His strength I would be a basket case. He keeps me going. And I am so thankful for His love.

NASB) John 15:10) "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 5:3)For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Matthew 11:30)For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

Matthew 23:4)"They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger.

John 15:12)"This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

John 13:34)"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

Matthew 22:37)And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'

38)"This is the great and foremost commandment.

39)"The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'


9) As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.

Wow! Can you even begin to try to understand that? I think it would do us all good to live in that verse!

I found this of Spurgeons devotional that is on verse 9. I thought it was good so thought I would share it. :)


Spurgeon's Morning and Evening
Evening Devotional for March 18

"As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you."
- John 15:9

As the Father loves the Son, in the same manner Jesus loves his people. What is that divine method? He loved him without beginning, and thus Jesus loves his members. "I have loved thee with an everlasting love." You can trace the beginning of human affection; you can easily find the beginning of your love to Christ, but his love to us is a stream whose source is hidden in eternity. God the Father loves Jesus without any change.

Christian, take this for your comfort, that there is no change in Jesus Christ's love to those who rest in him. Yesterday you were on Tabor's top, and you said, "He loves me:" to-day you are in the valley of humiliation, but he loves you still the same. On the hill Mizar, and among the Hermons, you heard his voice, which spake so sweetly with the turtle-notes of love; and now on the sea, or even in the sea, when all his waves and billows go over you, his heart is faithful to his ancient choice.

The Father loves the Son without any end, and thus does the Son love his people. Saint, thou needest not fear the loosing of the silver cord, for his love for thee will never cease. Rest confident that even down to the grave Christ will go with you, and that up again from it he will be your guide to the celestial hills. Moreover, the Father loves the Son without any measure, and the same immeasurable love the Son bestows upon his chosen ones.

The whole heart of Christ is dedicated to his people. He "loved us and gave himself for us. " His is a love which passeth knowledge. Ah! we have indeed an immutable Saviour, a precious Saviour, one who loves without measure, without change, without beginning, and without end, even as the Father loves him! There is much food here for those who know how to digest it. May the Holy Ghost lead us into its marrow and fatness!


Thought I would post a few more verses......

John 15:13)"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.

14)"You are My friends if you do what I command you.

15)"No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.

16)"You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

17)"This I command you, that you love one another.

Blessings. :hug:
Love, Deb

[Momof5]

Guess I'm in on this!

Good!:hug:


Now I have to get some studying done so I can post on the newest verses...:)

[miepie]

I will join again too! :pp Charles just talked me into a nap.... :eek: so I will get into it when I am awake again..... :)

Love you,
Mieke :kiss:

[Momof5]

I will join again too! :pp Charles just talked me into a nap.... :eek: so I will get into it when I am awake again..... :)

Love you,
Mieke :kiss:

:pp :pp :pp :hug: I'm so glad you are getting back into this too, Mieke!!

[Cilla]

The whole heart of Christ is dedicated to his people. He "loved us and gave himself for us. " His is a love which passeth knowledge. Ah! we have indeed an immutable Saviour, a precious Saviour, one who loves without measure, without change, without beginning, and without end, even as the Father loves him!

Thankyou for posting the devotional, Deb.

What better way to bear fruit than to show our love for Him and our love for others.

I can't help but connect up with Ps 126:6 as it is one of my favourites..

He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him.

[miepie]

John 15:1
"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.

JFB Commentary:
John 15:1-27. DISCOURSE AT THE SUPPER TABLE CONTINUED.
1-8. The spiritual oneness of Christ and His people, and His relation to them as the Source of all their spiritual life and fruitfulness, are here beautifully set forth by a figure familiar to Jewish ears (Isaiah 5:1, &c.).
I am the true vine—of whom the vine of nature is but a shadow.
my Father is the husbandman—the great Proprietor of the vineyard, the Lord of the spiritual kingdom. (It is surely unnecessary to point out the claim to supreme divinity involved in this).

Isaiah 5:1
Now let me sing to my Well-beloved
A song of my Beloved regarding His vineyard:
My Well-beloved has a vineyard
On a very fruitful hill.

Mark 4:19
and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

Bible Knowledge Commentary:
E. The Vine and the branches (15:1-10)
Jesus now instructed His disciples on three vital relationships. Disciples are to be rightly related to Jesus (vv. 1-10), to each other (vv. 11-17), and to the world (vv. 18-16:4). Disciples have three respective duties: to remain (abide), to love each other, and to testify.
15:1. I am the true Vine (cf. v. 5). This is the last of the seven great “I am” statements in John. Israel was God’s choice vine on which he lavished care and attention (Ps. 80:8; Isa. 5:1-7; Jer. 2:21; Hosea 10:1). He longed for fruit, but the vine (Israel) became degenerate and produced rotten fruit. Therefore Jesus, as “the true Vine,” fulfills what God had intended for Israel. The Father is the Gardener who cultivates and protects the Vine.

Psalm 80:8
You have brought a vine out of Egypt;
You have cast out the nations, and planted it.

Jeremiah 2:21
Yet I had planted you a noble vine, a seed of highest quality.
How then have you turned before Me
Into the degenerate plant of an alien vine?

Hosea 10:1
Israel empties his vine;
He brings forth fruit for himself.
According to the multitude of his fruit
He has increased the altars;
According to the bounty of his land
They have embellished his sacred pillars.


John 15:2
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

JFB Commentary:
2. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit . . . every branch that beareth fruit—As in a fruit tree, some branches may be fruitful, others quite barren, according as there is a vital connection between the branch and the stock, or no vital connection; so the disciples of Christ may be spiritually fruitful or the reverse, according as they are vitally and spiritually connected with Christ, or but externally and mechanically attached to Him. The fruitless He "taketh away" (see on John 15:6); the fruitful He "purgeth" (cleanseth, pruneth)—stripping it, as the husbandman does, of what is rank (Mark 4:19), "that it may bring forth more fruit"; a process often painful, but no less needful and beneficial than in the natural husbandry.


Bible Knowledge Commentary:
15:2. He (i.e., the Gardener, the Father) desires fruit, which is mentioned eight times in this chapter (vv. 2 [thrice], 4 [twice], 5, 8, 16). A progression is seen: fruit (v. 2), more fruitful (v. 2), and “much fruit” (vv. 5, 8). The fruit which God desired from Israel was loving obedience, righteousness, and justice (Isa. 5:1-7). Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He cuts off. The phrase “in Me” does not mean the same thing as Paul’s words “in Christ.” Here it is part of the metaphor of the Vine and seems to mean, “every person who professes to be My disciple (a ‘branch’) is not necessarily a true follower.” A branch that bears no fruit is obviously dead. Therefore, like Judas, it is cut off. Every year in Palestine gardeners prune their vines. They cut off the dead wood which has no life in it and trim the living branches so that their yield will be greater.


[COLOR="Red"][B]John 15:3[/B][/COLOR]
[3] You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

JFB Commentary:
3. Now—rather, "Already."
ye are clean through—by reason of.
the word I have spoken to you—already in a purified, fruitful condition, in consequence of the long action upon them of that searching "word" which was "as a refiner's fire" (Malachi 3:2-3).

[b]Malachi 3:2-3[/b]
"But who can endure the day of His coming?
And who can stand when He appears?
For He is like a refiner's fire
And like launderer's soap.
[3] He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver;
He will purify the sons of Levi,
And purge them as gold and silver,
That they may offer to the Lord
An offering in righteousness.

Bible Knowledge Commentary:
15:3. The disciples had been cleansed by Jesus and His message, but one, Judas, was not cleansed (cf. 13:10-11).


[COLOR="Red"][B]John 15:4[/B][/COLOR]
[4] Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

JFB Commentary:
4. Abide in me, and I in you; as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine, &c.—As all spiritual fruitfulness had been ascribed to the mutual inhabitation, and living, active interpenetration (so to speak) of Christ and His disciples, so here the keeping up of this vital connection is made essential to continued fruitfulness.

Bible Knowledge Commentary:
15:4. Fruitfulness is the result of the Son’s life being reproduced in a disciple. The disciple’s part is to remain. The word remain, a key word in John’s theology, is menō4 which occurs 11 times in this chapter, 40 times in the entire Gospel, and 27 times in John’s epistles. What does it mean to remain? It can mean, first, to accept Jesus as Savior (cf. 6:54, 56). Second, it can mean to continue or persevere in believing (8:31 [“hold” is remain]; 1 John 2:19, 24). Third, it can also mean believing, loving obedience (John 15:9-10). Without faith, no life of God will come to anyone. Without the life of God, no real fruit can be produced: Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me.


[b]John 6:54[/b]
Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

[b]John 6:56[/b]
He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

[b]John 8:31[/b]
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

[b]1 John 2:19[/b]
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

[b]1 John 2:24 [/b]
Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.


[COLOR="Red"][B]John 15:5[/B][/COLOR]
[5] I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

JFB Commentary:
5. without me—apart, or vitally disconnected from Me.
ye can do nothing—spiritually, acceptably.

Bible Knowledge Commentary:
15:5-6. A disciple’s continual abiding with Jesus (If a man remains in Me)—and the indwelling of Jesus in a believer (and I in him)—result in abundant fruit (cf. v. 8). But those who do not believe face disaster. A branch without life is dead and cut off (v. 2). It is worthless and therefore is thrown into the fire and burned. What did Jesus mean by these symbolic words about vine branches being burned? These words have been interpreted in at least three ways: (1) The “burned” branches are Christians who have lost their salvation. (2) The “burned” branches represent Christians who will lose rewards but not salvation at the judgment seat of Christ (1 Cor. 3:15). (But Jesus spoke here of dead branches; such a branch is thrown away and withers.) (3) The “burned” branches refer to professing Christians who, like Judas, are not genuinely saved and therefore are judged. Like a dead branch, a person without Christ is spiritually dead and therefore will be punished in eternal fire (cf. Matt. 25:46). Judas was with Jesus; he seemed like a “branch.” But he did not have God’s life in him; therefore he departed; his destiny was like that of a dead branch.

[b]1 Cor. 3:15[/b]
If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

[b]Matthew 25:46[/b]
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


[COLOR="Red"][B]John 15:6[/B][/COLOR]
[6] If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

JFB Commentary:
6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch . . . withered . . . cast into the fire . . . burned—The one proper use of the vine is to bear fruit; failing this, it is good for one other thing—fuel. (See Ezekiel 15:1-5). How awfully striking the figure, in this view of it!

[b]Ezekiel 15:1-5[/b]
Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: [2] "Son of man, how is the wood of the vine better than any other wood, the vine branch which is among the trees of the forest? [3] Is wood taken from it to make any object? Or can men make a peg from it to hang any vessel on? [4] Instead, it is thrown into the fire for fuel; the fire devours both ends of it, and its middle is burned. Is it useful for any work? [5] Indeed, when it was whole, no object could be made from it. How much less will it be useful for any work when the fire has devoured it, and it is burned?


[COLOR="Red"][B]John 15:7[/B][/COLOR]
If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.

JFB Commentary:
7. If ye abide in me, and my words . . . in you—Mark the change from the inhabitation of Himself to that of His words, paving the way for the subsequent exhortations (John 15:9-10).
ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you—because this indwelling of His words in them would secure the harmony of their askings with the divine will.

Bible Knowledge Commentary:
15:7-8. In contrast with verse 6, the emphasis in these verses is positive: remain with Jesus and bear much fruit. Effective prayer is based on faith in Christ and on His words remaining in believers. Christ’s words condition and control such a believer’s mind so that his prayers conform to the Father’s will. Since his prayer is in accord with God’s will, the results are certain—it will be given you (cf. 1 John 5:14-15). Fulfilled prayers bring glory to the Father because, like Jesus, His disciples are doing the heavenly Father’s will (cf. “Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth” [Matt. 6:10]).

[b]1 John 5:14-15[/b]
Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. [15] And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.

[b]Matthew 6:10[/b]
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.


[COLOR="Red"][B]John 15:8 [/B][/COLOR]
By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

JFB Commentary:
8. glorified that ye bear much fruit—not only from His delight in it for its own sake, but as from "the juices of the Living Vine."
so shall ye be my disciples—evidence your discipleship.


[COLOR="Red"][B]John 15:9 [/B][/COLOR]
"As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.

JFB Commentary:
9-11. continue ye in my love—not, "Continue to love Me," but, "Continue in the possession and enjoyment of My love to you"; as is evident from the next words.

Bible Knowledge Commentary:
15:9-10. A believer is motivated by the wonder of Jesus’ love, which is patterned after the Father’s love in its quality and extent. Remain in My love might seem to be mystical but Jesus makes it very concrete. Obedience to the Father’s commands is the same for a disciple as it was for the Son (cf. 14:15, 21, 23; 1 John 2:3; 3:22, 24; 5:3). Active dependence and loving obedience are the proper paths for all of God’s children.

[b]John 14:15[/b]
"If you love Me, keep My commandments.

[b]John 14:21[/b]
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

[b]John 14:23[/b]
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.

[b]1 John 2:3[/b]
Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

[b]1 John 3:22[/b]
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

[b]1 John 3:24[/b]
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

[b]1 John 5:3[/b]
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.



[COLOR="Red"][B]John 15:10-11 [/B][/COLOR]
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. [11] These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full.

JFB Commentary:
10. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love—the obedient spirit of true discipleship cherishing and attracting the continuance and increase of Christ's love; and this, He adds, was the secret even of His own abiding in His Father's love!


Hopefully this helps a litte bit in understanding the Scripture..... :hug:

Love you,
Mieke :kiss:

[SuperMommy8]

I believe this is talking about a person who is a believer who gets away from the things of the word ( for whatever reason) and stops bearing fruit. It is impossible to be in the world and not become dirtied by the things we encounter each day. We have to continually washed clean in Gods word. it is our cleansing agent. If we fail to abide in the vine, our branches withers from self imposed , starvation. Just like a real grape vine, it needs to be tended, pruned, nurishes with food and nutients. It will not bear fruit without it.

a very true example we women can attest to in our own lives. I dont know if any here have ever suffered from anorexia, or who have dieted to the point where your body will no longer have a menstraul cycle. Well I have. When you starve your body of the necessary nutrition is needs, your cycels will stop and you will no longer be able to bear children. You see this alot in female athetes.

Abide in true nurishment and your body will function in a healthy manner and your cycle will start again.

now the words above that say "takes away", some would say this means you can lose your salvation, but the same word is interpreted as "lift up" in other places in the word. It is the word, airo , This interpretation would mean that it needs positive input. It needs to be lifted up and helped along the way, with tending and sunlight. It needs to be feed postive nutrients to get back to where it once was.

This is what the vine dresser does. He tends the weakened vine and brings it back to health again.

*************
T

Hi, Thanks for clearing that up! That's a verse I've often wondered about, since I don't believe you can lose salvation. That makes much better sense! God doesn't just cast His children aside, He tends to them, to help them grow! Wow, that's cool, thanks :idea:

[Momof5]

NKJV John

9) As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.

10) If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

11) These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full.

Through obedience, we experience joy - which comes from being in His presence. Psalm 16:11 You will show me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore.


I had notes for the next verses you posted, Deb, but I lost my notes (imagine that:rolleyes: ) so now I have to find my notes or redo them.:hug:

[Debra R]

Thank you my sisters, :hug: :hug: :hug:
Just thought I would share a few thoughts.

John 15:13)"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.

There is no greater love than what Jesus did. We have no friend who would do what Jesus did. He gave His life for us. He died for me, He died for you, He died for each one of us. He gave His life that we may live. Think of how much love that would require to die for someone. Think of how much Jesus loves us to have done that. Sometimes its hard to comprehend that kind of love.

14)"You are My friends if you do what I command you.

Jesus calls us friends. What an honor He bestows upon us to call us friends.

15)"No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.

16)"You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

He chose us. Not that we chose Him but He chose us. Who am I that Jesus would choose me? I know I am not worthy. Sometimes to think of His love makes me cry. I am thankful for His calling. I am thankful for the fruit He says I will bear that He will cause to remain. That through me He will touch the lives of my family and friends I love. I am thankful for the witness He gives me. I am thankful that Jesus loves me even though often times I fail but He is able to continue to do a great work in me. His promises are faithful and true. Glory be to our Lord God.

17)"This I command you, that you love one another.

Here are a few more verses:hug: .......

John 15:18)"If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you.

19)"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.

20)"Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master ' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.

21)"But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me.

22)"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.

Blessings :hug:

[Debra R]

:) Just a few cross references for these verses.....

John 15:18)"If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you.

John 7:7)"The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil.


John 15:19)"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.

Matthew 10:22)"You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.



John 15:20)"Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master ' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.

1 Corinthians 4:12)and we toil, working with our own hands; when we are reviled, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure;

2 Corinthians 4:9) persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;

2 Timothy 3:12)Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

John 8:51)"Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death."




John 15:21)"But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me.

Matthew 24:9)"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

John 8:19)So they were saying to Him, "Where is Your Father?" Jesus answered, "You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also."

1 John 3:1) See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.



John 15:22)"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.

John 9:41)Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.

[Debra R]

The last verses for this chapter............


John 15: 23)"He who hates Me hates My Father also.


24)"If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well.


25)"But they have done this to fulfill the word that is written in their Law, 'THEY HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.'


26)"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,


27)and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

[Momof5]

Thank you, Deb, for keeping this going while I have been overwhelmed with "kid things.":hug:

Jesus revealed God to the world and it made the world angry....because the world does not know God.

John 15: 23)"He who hates Me hates My Father also.


24)"If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well.


25)"But they have done this to fulfill the word that is written in their Law, 'THEY HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.'

26)"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,


27)and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

I praise God for sending the Holy Spirit to testify about my need for a Savior - to teach me the truth about Jesus.

Like the disciples, who walked with our Lord, I must testify about what Jesus has done for me - what He has taught me and what I have seen!:)

Who wants to start Chapter 16?