Originally Posted by
shepherdsword
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You don't understand what John is saying. He cannot be defining "seeing" in the shallow way you are. Let's take these situations for example:<br>
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<strong> Gn 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: <u>for I have seen God face to face</u>, and my life is preserved.<br>
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Jdg 13:22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, <u>because we have seen God</u>.<br>
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Ex 33:11 <u>And the LORD (YHVH)spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend</u>. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.<br>
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Num 14:14 And they will tell [it] to the inhabitants of this land: for they have heard that thou LORD art among this people, <u>that thou LORD(YHVH) art seen face to face</u>, and that thy cloud standeth over them, and [that] thou goest before them, by day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night.</strong><br>
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We are well aware that Jesus and the Father are two separate persons and yet they are both YHVH. Jesus is YHVH in the flesh.<br>
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No one has said that he can<br>
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Yes and people have also seen YHVH face to face as I have proven from scripture...note we did NOT make that up,it is in the original Hebrew texts. This means that John's definition of "seeing God" does not align with the error that the WatchTower teaches.<br>
- If the trinity is TRUE, the bible Contradicted itself here !<br>
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Yes they were and it is a prime example of the Divine Trinity all being involved in the redeemption of man<br>
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He prayed to the Father of course. When he left heaven and the Glory that he had with the Father before the world began he underwent the process of "kenosis" to empty himslef of his divine power so that he might walk as we should walk. All of the works that he did were not done by his own divine power but by the power of the Holy Spirit. That same power is available to us today.<br>
<strong>Jn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.</strong><br>
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These questions show your misunderstanding of what Jesus actually did when he emptied himself to become a man. He was fully human as well as fully God. As a man he prayed to the Father and denied his own will for the will of the Father...just as we must do.<br>
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Yes he did,in several places.<br>
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<strong>AV Mt 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.<br>
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AV Mt 2:8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found [him], bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.<br>
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AV Hb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.<br>
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AV Mt 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.<br>
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AV Mt 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.<br>
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AV Mt 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.<br>
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AV Mt 9:18 . While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.<br>
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AV Mt 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.<br>
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AV Mt 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.<br>
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AV Mt 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.<br>
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AV Mk 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,</strong><br>
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He didn't say "Not me" that is something the watchtower added. He was asking the questions like this "Why are you calling me "good" if you do not believe I am the Messiah come in the flesh?"<br>
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Can you really continue to deny that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh by looking honestly at the evidence in the bible?