Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

The coming conflict between Israel and Iran, is it a prelude to the seven year treaty of Dan.9:27?

No. Although I support Israel more than Iran, Iran is not a fraction as bad as the propaganda of certain countries makes out. As long as it is not attacked or put under severe pressure/provocation it will continue to mind its own business. I also think that Iran ought to tag down the rhetoric against Israel a bit. They do not help their own situation either.

The USA should stay well clear of this conflict, and instead of meddling and bringing warships to the area, they should hold back and encourage Israel to do the same. I completely sympathise that Iran is furious because Israel/USA enters their territory and assasinates five of their top scientists!

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Originally Posted by seeker_truth

The coming conflict between Israel and Iran, is it a prelude to the seven year treaty of Dan.9:27?

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I don't know, I think we will see more nations that Iran alone, though they, like others over there have sworn to destroy Israel. I don't think Iran will take on Israel by herself. Iran is going to want some partners in crime.

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Originally Posted by seeker_truth

The coming conflict between Israel and Iran, is it a prelude to the seven year treaty of Dan.9:27?

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I do believe its the prelude to a time of peace and prosperity for the middle Eastern region. Its the final battle to consoladate Islam under the power of the west-friendly Turkey. It does not matter what the reason is, the plan is for Iran to be invaded by Israel and nothing will stop that plan. The end result will be that Israel and Turkey will control the entire region from Libya to Afghanistan, in a large western friendly EU type situation.

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Originally Posted by Hannah

No. Although I support Israel more than Iran, Iran is not a fraction as bad as the propaganda of certain countries makes out. As long as it is not attacked or put under severe pressure/provocation it will continue to mind its own business. I also think that Iran ought to tag down the rhetoric against Israel a bit. They do not help their own situation either.

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Iran hasn't "minded it's own business" for years. They've given substantial support to Hamas that is Israel's sworn enemies. Hamas has fought for Israel's overthrow for years.

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The USA should stay well clear of this conflict, and instead of meddling and bringing warships to the area, they should hold back and encourage Israel to do the same. I completely sympathise that Iran is furious because Israel/USA enters their territory and assasinates five of their top scientists!

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Why do you think they did that? Is there not a cause?

Also, you do know that the US has a treaty with Israel. They are considered an ally. I doubt the US would leave them hanging if war breaks out.

Well, I simply don't support the aggressive foreign policy of the USA. I am not an American and I have no ties or sense of loyalty to that country, so I will say it as I see it. To me the behaviour of the USA in certain parts of the world is completely reprehensible. Sorry if this opinion is offensive to you. I like Americans and the actual country - it's just the foreign policies I can't stand, and I am not alone in this.

Sure, I support Israel as a country and the principle that the Jews have a right to that piece of land.
I find some aspects of the Iranian regime quite repulsive.
But I think that fundamentally this is the problem of the Iranian people and not me.

Iran has lots of internal problems to deal with and will not attack Israel out of the blue.
Israel has an excellent army and can defend itself.
Let them sort out their own problems and history to take its course.

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Originally Posted by Hannah

Well, I simply don't support the aggressive foreign policy of the USA. I am not an American and I have no ties or sense of loyalty to that country, so I will say it as I see it. To me the behaviour of the USA in certain parts of the world is completely reprehensible. Sorry if this opinion is offensive to you. I like Americans and the actual country - it's just the foreign policies I can't stand, and I am not alone in this.

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No problem there. I don't expect everyone to agree with me or the US. What got me, was your comment about Iran minding their own business.

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Sure, I support Israel as a country and the principle that the Jews have a right to that piece of land.
I find some aspects of the Iranian regime quite repulsive.
But I think that fundamentally this is the problem of the Iranian people and not me.

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That's true. Unless you have promised to defend your neighbor and your neighbor is attacked. That's what treaties are for.

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Iran has lots of internal problems to deal with and will not attack Israel out of the blue.
Israel has an excellent army and can defend itself.
Let them sort out their own problems and history to take its course.

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Sure, unless you have treaties involved. Countries enter into treaties all the time to strengthen and protect themselves.

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Originally Posted by seeker_truth

The coming conflict between Israel and Iran, is it a prelude to the seven year treaty of Dan.9:27?

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No, since there is nothing about a seven year treaty mentioned in Daniel 9:27 but rather a covenant being confirmed in the midst of the 70th week. That prophecy was fulfilled long ago, IMO. Christ was to be crucified after the first 69 weeks were over (Dan 9:26) so that means He was crucified in the midst of the 70th week and He confirmed the new covenant which brought an end to the need for animal sacrifices as sin offerings as in the old covenant system.

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Originally Posted by Brother Mark

No problem there. I don't expect everyone to agree with me or the US. What got me, was your comment about Iran minding their own business. Sure, unless you have treaties involved. Countries enter into treaties all the time to strengthen and protect themselves.

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I thought that the USA supported Israel because of the large number of Jews and evangelical Christians in the USA. What is this treaty called that you are referring to?

Assuming there is a defense pact of some kind, surely that does not involve acts like supporting assasinations inside of Iran (that's more likely to be an act of war).

And as for the paranoia about nukes in the Middle East: It is well known that Israel already has nukes, and somehow this doesn't seem to shock or concern anyone. Israel together with countries like North Korea and Pakistan has refused to sign the non-proliferation treaty. But that's OK if you are pals with the USA... Iran however, did sign the treaty has been willing to recieve inspections and maintains that their program is for peaceful purposes.

Meanwhile the USA is sending warships to Iran, seizes foreign assets and starts a massive propaganda offensive. I dislike the obvious hypocrisy that's going on with all this, and as much as I don't care for Iran I am not surprised they react as they do when they are literally thrown out into the cold and made the villains.

Then add the fact that Iran has one of the largest oil supplies in the world, in addition to newly conquered/"liberated" countries like Iraq and Libya... then I think I can "read the writing on the wall", so to speak.

Well, that's it - I'd better not say a single word more about this, or every patriotic American on this forum will despise me... But it's good to hear an opposing viewpoint sometimes and there you had it!

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Originally Posted by Hannah

Iran is not a fraction as bad as the propaganda of certain countries makes out. As long as it is not attacked or put under severe pressure/provocation it will continue to mind its own business.

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Sigh. If only. They fund and arm Hizbullah, which killed 241 American servicemen in Beirut and started a war against Israel; and Hamas, which overthrew the PA in Gaza and has also started a war against Israel. And there is plenty of evidence that Iran supported terrorists in Iraq that killed American servicemen.

If that's Iran "minding their own business" I'd hate to see them meddling. seriously.

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I completely sympathise that Iran is furious because Israel/USA enters their territory and assasinates five of their top scientists!

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Well maybe if Iran didn't talk about "wiping Israel off the map" and "cutting out the cancer that is Israel", the Israelis wouldn't worry about Iranian nukes.

As things stand right now, I believe Israel will stop Iran from going nuclear by any means necessary. Charles Krauthammer said last week: “I cannot imagine the Israelis are going to allow Iran to go nuclear and to hold the Damocles sword over 6 million Jews all over again. Israel was established to prevent a second Holocaust, not to invite one.”

End times? Certainly possible.

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Originally Posted by Hannah

And as for the paranoia about nukes in the Middle East: It is well known that Israel already has nukes, and somehow this doesn't seem to shock or concern anyone.

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Yeah, isn't that funny? Israel has nukes for decades, and the arab countries don't care. Iran is about to go nuclear and now the Saudis and the Egyptians are talking about building nukes themselves.

Things that make you go hmm....

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Iran however, did sign the treaty has been willing to recieve inspections and maintains that their program is for peaceful purposes.

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The IAEA says otherwise.

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Meanwhile the USA is sending warships to Iran,

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The US sent warships to the Persian gulf, not Iran. And they were sent because Iran said they would block oil tankers.

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seizes foreign assets

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What assets were seized?

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and starts a massive propaganda offensive.

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What propaganda offensive?

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I dislike the obvious hypocrisy that's going on with all this, and as much as I don't care for Iran I am not surprised they react as they do when they are literally thrown out into the cold and made the villains.

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Well yeah, that's what happens when you hold sham elections and talk about eliminating another country.

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Then add the fact that Iran has one of the largest oil supplies in the world, in addition to newly conquered/"liberated" countries like Iraq and Libya... then I think I can "read the writing on the wall", so to speak.

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And here I thought it was only GWB who spilled blood for oil, now Obama's going to do it too?! :lol:

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Originally Posted by Hannah

I thought that the USA supported Israel because of the large number of Jews and evangelical Christians in the USA. What is this treaty called that you are referring to?

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Your probably partially right on that. The other reason the US supports them is they are a stable democracy in a crazy part of the world.

Here's a link that will go over all the treaties the US has with Israel.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...tml#Friendship

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Assuming there is a defense pact of some kind, surely that does not involve acts like supporting assasinations inside of Iran (that's more likely to be an act of war).

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Better that than to allow Iran to go nuclear, IMO.

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And as for the paranoia about nukes in the Middle East: It is well known that Israel already has nukes, and somehow this doesn't seem to shock or concern anyone.

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That's because Israel doesn't go around making threats about destroying countries like Iran does. Israel hasn't supported blatant acts of terrorism like Iran has. Apples and oranges.

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Israel together with countries like North Korea and Pakistan has refused to sign the non-proliferation treaty. But that's OK if you are pals with the USA...

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Israel is no one to be afraid of. They handle themselves quite well in the world. North Korea and Pakistan on the other hand... not so much.

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Iran however, did sign the treaty has been willing to recieve inspections and maintains that their program is for peaceful purposes.

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Yea... and it's for purely peaceful purposes that they have stated, repeatedly, that one of their ultimate goals is the destruction of Israel.

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Meanwhile the USA is sending warships to Iran, seizes foreign assets and starts a massive propaganda offensive. I dislike the obvious hypocrisy that's going on with all this, and as much as I don't care for Iran I am not surprised they react as they do when they are literally thrown out into the cold and made the villains.

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I see no hypocrisy. There are reasons each country is treated differently. I think the west learned a lot from Neville Chamberlain.

Weirdly enough, just today the head of Hizbullah said that Iran has been supporting them since 1982.


And of course there are the two attempted Israeli embassy bombings yesterday, presumably by Hizbullah.

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Originally Posted by Hannah

Well, I simply don't support the aggressive foreign policy of the USA. I am not an American and I have no ties or sense of loyalty to that country, so I will say it as I see it. To me the behaviour of the USA in certain parts of the world is completely reprehensible. Sorry if this opinion is offensive to you. I like Americans and the actual country - it's just the foreign policies I can't stand, and I am not alone in this.

Sure, I support Israel as a country and the principle that the Jews have a right to that piece of land.
I find some aspects of the Iranian regime quite repulsive.
But I think that fundamentally this is the problem of the Iranian people and not me.

Iran has lots of internal problems to deal with and will not attack Israel out of the blue.
Israel has an excellent army and can defend itself.
Let them sort out their own problems and history to take its course.

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I agree with you on everything you say here, but I will tell you what is going to happen in reality. There is going to be an escalation of fingers pointing at Iran, including comments of their leaders misquoted by western media. An escalation of terrorist attacks on Israel and Jews that the western media will blame on Iran. Then there will be a direct attack on Israel that Israel will claim they have proof that it came directly from Iran's borders, and then Israel will attack Iran as if Iran has been the aggressor the entire time. The politicians of the world will accept this as justified. The American people will accept this as justified. About half the non-Western populations of the world will understand that Iran has been set up for an invasion and yet will have no proof of this.

Except a knowledge of other comments by Iran's leaders that they are not on the offensive, and a knowledge that Iran is aware of their comparative military weakness and so would never do a attack on Israel that would invite an invasion. But possibly before the end of this year Israel will invade Iran. Look at this wikipedia article regarding the western media's miquote of the Iranian leader's comments:

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At a news conference on January 14, 2006, Ahmadinejad stated his speech had been exaggerated and misinterpreted.^[26] "There is no new policy, they created a lot of hue and cry over that. It is clear what we say: Let the Palestinians participate in free elections and they will say what they want." Speaking at a D-8 summit meeting in July 2008, he denied that his country would ever instigate military action. Instead he claimed that "the Zionist regime" in Israel would eventually collapse on its own.^[27][28]

Asked if he objected to the government of Israel or Jewish people, he said that "creating an objection against the Zionists doesn't mean that there are objections against the Jewish". He added that Jews lived in Iran and were represented in the country's parliament.^[27]

In a September 2008 interview Ahmadinejad was asked: "If the Palestinian leaders agree to a two-state solution, could Iran live with an Israeli state?" He replied:

If they [the Palestinians] want to keep the Zionists, they can stay ... Whatever the people decide, we will respect it. I mean, it's very much in correspondence with our proposal to allow Palestinian people to decide through free referendums.^[29]

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Its no secret that he hates Israel, believing that the Palestinians should have more right to vote in the areas they used to live in. But they do not hate Jews and treat Jews well within their own country. Jews in Iran are treated with religious tolerance by the general populace and also by the government.

Interesting comment DurbanDude. I also see a development towards what you describe. It seems very similar to what happened ahead of the Iraq war, the propaganda war has surely started a long time ago, but it's being ramped up recently. And they'd sure like to get their hands on all that oil and get rid of Ahmadinejad & his rhetoric in one go.

I think the Iranian army is quite capabable though and I wonder how something like this would pan out in reality. All the Iranians may no be that fond of all aspects of the current regime, but they would dislike an American invasion immensely more... Plus, Iranians are well educated - these are no Pakistani illiterates or Iraqi tribes...

Do you really think the USA has the capacity proceed with another war now though? I mean, look at their econonomy! The way things are going, the US will soon be nothing but a right wing war machine /some kind of military dictatorship that babbles incessantly about freedom and democracy for others, while civilians around the world are dying at their hands.

There is very little production taking place there, the state of education is shocking and there is no guaranteed medical care. How much are are Americans going to put up with before they put their feet down and say "enough is enough"? Will they allow their leaders to totally destroy a once great nation? How can Americans support the invasion of countries that they have no information on other than propaganda news, countries they can't even point out on the map, all the while the wealth of the country dwindles away and into the pockets of the military industry, oil companies etc...?

A tiny elite will soon sit with all the wealth America once had, not caring that the country is finished and China takes over as the super power.And America won't have an ounce of moral superiority over the countries it claims to "liberate".

Never thought I'd speak out in defense of Iran, but the idea of an invasion there is wrong for so many reasons.
Much better to let things take their course and Iranians themselves to reform the regime from inside. After all, it's there as the result of a popular revolution, even if things perhaps did not pan out exactly as the revolutionaries envisaged.
I would only support a war on Iran if it made an outright attack on Israel, and that seems to me extremely unlikely.

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Originally Posted by Hannah

Interesting comment DurbanDude. I also see a development towards what you describe. It seems very similar to what happened ahead of the Iraq war, the propaganda war has surely started a long time ago, but it's being ramped up recently. And they'd sure like to get their hands on all that oil and get rid of Ahmadinejad & his rhetoric in one go.

I think the Iranian army is quite capabable though and I wonder how something like this would pan out in reality. All the Iranians may no be that fond of all aspects of the current regime, but they would dislike an American invasion immensely more... Plus, Iranians are well educated - these are no Pakistani illiterates or Iraqi tribes...

Do you really think the USA has the capacity proceed with another war now though? I mean, look at their econonomy! The way things are going, the US will soon be nothing but a right wing war machine /some kind of military dictatorship that babbles incessantly about freedom and democracy for others, while civilians around the world are dying at their hands.

There is very little production taking place there, the state of education is shocking and there is no guaranteed medical care. How much are are Americans going to put up with before they put their feet down and say "enough is enough"? Will they allow their leaders to totally destroy a once great nation? How can Americans support the invasion of countries that they have no information on other than propaganda news, countries they can't even point out on the map, all the while the wealth of the country dwindles away and into the pockets of the military industry, oil companies etc...?

A tiny elite will soon sit with all the wealth America once had, not caring that the country is finished and China takes over as the super power.And America won't have an ounce of moral superiority over the countries it claims to "liberate".

Never thought I'd speak out in defense of Iran, but the idea of an invasion there is wrong for so many reasons.
Much better to let things take their course and Iranians themselves to reform the regime from inside. After all, it's there as the result of a popular revolution, even if things perhaps did not pan out exactly as the revolutionaries envisaged.
I would only support a war on Iran if it made an outright attack on Israel, and that seems to me extremely unlikely.

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I believe this outright attack will happen, despite it being illogical from an Iranian perspective. We will possibly get diagrams and projections proving that the missile or whatever did come from Iran, just like we got diagrams and projections showing that Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction.

What you are saying is so true, I also thought I would never defend Iran, but the propaganda war is so one-sided. The strange thing is that Russian and Islamic news channels have a better journalistic ethic than CNN or SkyNews. I don't think the western satellite channels subscribe to eastern news channels, so the west is getting this one-sided perspective that Iran is this war-mongering radical suicidal state.

I believe this war will be primarily fought by Israel, not Europe or the USA. But I believe the main motivation is not oil, but to remove every enemy of Israel. A turn from dictatorship to democracy is a change from a govt that cannot be influenced to a government that can be influenced by western finance, through lobbyists and politicians on pre-existing payrolls. In this way, the west can influence the Middle east in the future. Jordan and Saudi Arabia are friends with the west. Iraq has been eliminated as a military threat. Iraq, Libya, Morocco, Afghanistan, soon Syria, Egypt have become influencable democracies. Iran will be soon. They have no choice but will all become pro-west moderate Islam democracies. I frankly don't know why people are talking about the tribulation now, as if Islam is strong now and ready to invade Israel. Islam has literally never been weaker.

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Originally Posted by Fenris

Well maybe if Iran didn't talk about "wiping Israel off the map" and "cutting out the cancer that is Israel", the Israelis wouldn't worry about Iranian nukes.
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That's a misquote by western media. He did not use the word "map" and in Persian they do not have a phrase like that. He clarified that he had been misinterpreted by western media, saying very clearly that he will not attack Israel and has no plans to do so. He is anti-Israel and wishes Zionism (he means the Israeli government) will disappear from earth, and believes Allah will make it happen one day. That is the equivalent of a western politician saying he wishes communism would disappear and believes God will do so. This is a far cry from military ambitions, and that comment was literally misquoted. He is not anti-Jew, he is against the Israel government's decisions regarding Palestinian rights.

As for proof of previous funding of terrorist organisations, its claimed by media that the USA funded Bin Laden in the past. You have to look at motives and front organisations before you can decide that a certain action deserves a war, or even our condemnation.

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Originally Posted by Hannah

I think the Iranian army is quite capabable though and I wonder how something like this would pan out in reality. All the Iranians may no be that fond of all aspects of the current regime, but they would dislike an American invasion immensely more...

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No one is talking about "invading" Iran. Just destroying their nuclear program.

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Do you really think the USA has the capacity proceed with another war now though?

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It begs the question, which is worse: America bombing Iran, or Iran going nuclear?

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The way things are going, the US will soon be nothing but a right wing war machine /some kind of military dictatorship that babbles incessantly about freedom and democracy for others, while civilians around the world are dying at their hands.

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heh. And here Obama won the Nobel peace prize. Crazy!

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There is very little production taking place there, the state of education is shocking and there is no guaranteed medical care. How much are are Americans going to put up with before they put their feet down and say "enough is enough"? Will they allow their leaders to totally destroy a once great nation? How can Americans support the invasion of countries that they have no information on other than propaganda news, countries they can't even point out on the map, all the while the wealth of the country dwindles away and into the pockets of the military industry, oil companies etc...?

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Wow, do you write press releases for the Iranian government?

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Never thought I'd speak out in defense of Iran, but the idea of an invasion there is wrong for so many reasons.

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In your 22 posts here you've done little else.

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Much better to let things take their course and Iranians themselves to reform the regime from inside. After all, it's there as the result of a popular revolution, even if things perhaps did not pan out exactly as the revolutionaries envisaged.

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Indeed, this would be the best outcome. The problem is there's a race afoot. Which comes first, an Iranian revolution, or an Iranian atomic bomb? At this point I'm going with the bomb.

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I would only support a war on Iran if it made an outright attack on Israel, and that seems to me extremely unlikely.

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First of all, Hizbullah and Hamas are outright attacking Israel, and they are Iranian proxies. That you buy into the premise that this is not an attack by Iran shows that their mission is successful.

Secondly, an outright attack by Iran on Israel would probably be a nuke on Tel Aviv. So basically you think that it's ok to defend Jews after a Holocaust but not before. Which is really very sad.

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Originally Posted by DurbanDude

That's a misquote by western media. He did not use the word "map" and in Persian they do not have a phrase like that. He clarified that he had been misinterpreted by western media, saying very clearly that he will not attack Israel and has no plans to do so. He is anti-Israel and wishes Zionism (he means the Israeli government) will disappear from earth, and believes Allah will make it happen one day. That is the equivalent of a western politician saying he wishes communism would disappear and believes God will do so. This is a far cry from military ambitions, and that comment was literally misquoted. He is not anti-Jew, he is against the Israel government's decisions regarding Palestinian rights.

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How nice that you too make excuses for a genocidal dictator.

By the way, he also talked about "cutting out the cancer that is Israel". I suppose now you'll tell me that the words "cutting out" and "cancer" also don't exist in Persian, it's all a misquote by the western media. :rolleyes:

I wonder if the videos and what not that are out there that have him saying he wants to destroy Israel are also direct misquotes? Maybe they dubbed his words in?

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Originally Posted by quiet dove

I wonder if the videos and what not that are out there that have him saying he wants to destroy Israel are also direct misquotes? Maybe they dubbed his words in?

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What can I say, many people seem to like Holocaust memorials more than live Jews. Or "alleged Holocaust", since we're talking about Ahmadinejad here.

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Originally Posted by DurbanDude

That's a misquote by western media.

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Aaaand lol. Ahmadinejad's own english language website uses the phrase "wiped off the map." That's translated by his government, not the western media.

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Originally Posted by DurbanDude

That's a misquote by western media. He did not use the word "map" and in Persian they do not have a phrase like that. He clarified that he had been misinterpreted by western media, saying very clearly that he will not attack Israel and has no plans to do so. He is anti-Israel and wishes Zionism (he means the Israeli government) will disappear from earth, and believes Allah will make it happen one day. That is the equivalent of a western politician saying he wishes communism would disappear and believes God will do so. This is a far cry from military ambitions, and that comment was literally misquoted. He is not anti-Jew, he is against the Israel government's decisions regarding Palestinian rights.

As for proof of previous funding of terrorist organisations, its claimed by media that the USA funded Bin Laden in the past. You have to look at motives and front organisations before you can decide that a certain action deserves a war, or even our condemnation.

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Whether you understand it or not, your response contradicts itself in multiple ways. Being anti-Israel is the same thing as being anti-Jew for they represent and are one in the same. Also, above that is the most obvious point of how accepting Muslim's are of other religions. If they truly are a follower, they are instructed to convert all people to Islam and put to death those who will not.

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Originally Posted by quiet dove

I wonder if the videos and what not that are out there that have him saying he wants to destroy Israel are also direct misquotes? Maybe they dubbed his words in?

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Can you post a link to a video clip in which Ahmadinejad explicitly says that Iran will attack Israel with nukes?

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Originally Posted by Fenris

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You made quite a number of incorrect statements both about me and in response to what I said. However based on your record I can see that this is a topic that you would literally argue to the death, so I will leave you to rule this thread supreme...! But I've got family connections in Israel and if I believed Iran was a genuine threat to the lives of my relatives I would take a different position. As I see it, America's meddling is the biggest threat to peace in the Middle East.

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Originally Posted by RockyTop

. Being anti-Israel is the same thing as being anti-Jew for they represent and are one in the same.

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Well I thought I already explained the difference. Ahmadinejad is against the state of Israel, and all the settlers coming from all over the world to populate Israel, and the treatment of Palestinians. But he is not anti-Jew and their own Jews are treated very well with complete racial and religious tolerance. He is not against the Jews in the Israel region too, but is against the majority of Palestinians being denied the right to vote in the entire Israel region which he sees as originally theirs and not Jews. He seems to always express himself very carefully, wishing for the demise of the Israeli government, and believing Allah will cause it, but consistently never showing hatred for Jews in general.

This is definitely no incitement to war, to wish a government would fall. I wish my corrupt government will fall, and I really believe it will happen with God's blessing. And I wish the North Korean government will fall. This does not mean I wish even one Korean or South African dead.

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Originally Posted by Hannah

But I've got family connections in Israel and if I believed Iran was a genuine threat to the lives of my relatives I would take a different position.

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How nice. I also have, as you say "family connections" in Israel. And I worry about them a lot.

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As I see it, America's meddling is the biggest threat to peace in the Middle East.

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Yes, I noticed.

If only America adopted a "hands off" policy in the middle east, the Sunni and Shia would get along again, Muslims would embrace Christians, the Syrian government would stop murdering civilians, Egypt would elect liberal democrats instead of the Muslim Brotherhood, Iran would stop building nukes, etc etc etc...

Most of what's wrong in the middle east has nothing to do with either America or Israel.

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Originally Posted by Fenris

Aaaand lol. Ahmadinejad's own english language website uses the phrase "wiped off the map." That's translated by his government, not the western media.

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Even so, he is not talking about a genocide here, but a wish for a new Palestinian state, ie the fall of the Israeli government. If a government official in the USA wishes that the North Korean government will fall and be absorbed into South Korea, is this incitement to genocide? This is the type of comment he consistently makes obviously from his pro-Palestinian point of view:

(Address to the United Nations General Assembly)
September 18, 2008
"We have no problems with these people but they should leave the occupied territories, leave them to their genuine owners and get back to their countries and homes where they originally came from."

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Originally Posted by DurbanDude

But he is not anti-Jew

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Oh, "anti Zionists" never are. They all love Jews, they will tell you. They just don't think that Jews should have their own country.

Now, why Jews alone of all ethnic groups should be denied this right, they will not say.

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Originally Posted by DurbanDude

Even so, he is not talking about a genocide here,

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His proxies do.


Hamas's charter calls for the destruction of "the Zionist entity" via "Jihad".

Hezbullah's leader said that he wants all the Jews in the world to move to Israel. It will be easier to kill them all that way, he said.

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but a wish for a new Palestinian state, ie the fall of the Israeli government.

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Yes, yes, he talks about how the Palestinians should be allowed to vote in Israeli elections. Of course, Iranians can't even vote in Iranian elections, the whole process is a sham.

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(Address to the United Nations General Assembly)
September 18, 2008
"We have no problems with these people but they should leave the occupied territories, leave them to their genuine owners and get back to their countries and homes where they originally came from."

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He means the Jews should return to say, Europe. Not Tel Aviv or Haifa. Of course, as I mentioned above, that might make his proxy Hizbullah unhappy because now they have to go abroad to kill all the Jews...

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Originally Posted by Hannah

Can you post a link to a video clip in which Ahmadinejad explicitly says that Iran will attack Israel with nukes?

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Yes I would also like to see the evidence of this.

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Originally Posted by DurbanDude

Yes I would also like to see the evidence of this.

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Well there's no video footage of Hitler explicitly saying that he intends to murder millions of Jews in the gas chambers. So I guess that didn't happen.

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Originally Posted by Fenris

Oh, "anti Zionists" never are. They all love Jews, they will tell you. They just don't think that Jews should have their own country.

Now, why Jews alone of all ethnic groups should be denied this right, they will not say.

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Well they do actually give their reason. They claim that there were more Palestinians than Jews in the region when the Jews arrived and therefore the Palestinians should have the majority right to vote if settlers should be allowed in what has been their land for more than a thousand years. This is not a view I agree with because I feel Jews do have a right to their original homeland, nevertheless this appears to be the main reason Muslims give for disliking the Israeli government.

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Originally Posted by Fenris

Well there's no video footage of Hitler explicitly saying that he intends to murder millions of Jews in the gas chambers. So I guess that didn't happen.

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Fenris, are you saying because there was no video footage of Hitler , we can all make assumptions about other leaders without evidence just in case they are similar to Hitler? Is this your logic?

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Originally Posted by DurbanDude

Well they do actually give their reason. They claim that there were more Palestinians than Jews in the region when the Jews arrived and therefore the Palestinians should have the majority right to vote

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And all those nations calling for the Palestinians to have the right to vote- can their citizens vote? No, of course not.

They want to destroy Israel. "Democracy" is one tool they can use. Have the Palestinians vote Israel out of existence. As one member of Hamas said, "democracy" is like a bus. You ride it until you get to your stop, then you get off it.

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Originally Posted by DurbanDude

Fenris, are you saying because there was no video footage of Hitler , we can all make assumptions about other leaders without evidence just in case they are similar to Hitler? Is this your logic?

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I'm saying that someone doesn't have to explicitly say they intend to kill you in order to be dangerous.

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Originally Posted by Fenris

His proxies do.


Hamas's charter calls for the destruction of "the Zionist entity" via "Jihad".

Hezbullah's leader said that he wants all the Jews in the world to move to Israel. It will be easier to kill them all that way, he said.

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Iran is as responsible for the comments of Hezbullah as the US is responsible for the genocides and actions and comments of those Central American regimes it supported during the cold war. I believe neither are resposible, its just foreign policy which allies you support, but you do not become responsible for their every action and comment.

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Originally Posted by Fenris

I'm saying that someone doesn't have to explicitly say they intend to kill you in order to be dangerous.

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True, but the actually initiator of violence is the true danger.

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Originally Posted by DurbanDude

its just foreign policy which allies you support

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Yes, Iran supports Hamas and Hizbullah foreign policy.

What are Hamas and Hizbullah's foreign policy?

The destruction of Israel.

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Originally Posted by DurbanDude

True, but the actually initiator of violence is the true danger.

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I have no idea what this means.