Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

For those who still have their doubts, this is from Iran's own official news agency:

Wife of Assassinated Scientist: Annihilation of Israel "Mostafa's Ultimate Goal"

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"Mostafa's ultimate goal was the annihilation of Israel," Fatemeh Bolouri Kashani told FNA on Tuesday.

Bolouri Kashani also underlined that her spouse loved any resistance figure in his life who was willing to fight the Zionist regime and supported the rights of the oppressed Palestinian nation.

Iran's 32-year-old Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan Behdast, a chemistry professor and a deputy director of commerce at Natanz uranium enrichment facility, was assassinated during the morning rush-hour in the capital early January. His driver was also killed in the terrorist attack.

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"Nuclear power". Sure. :rolleyes:

I get really upset seeing how prejudiced and brainwashed lots of people of a certain nationality are, without any humility or perspective that other nations and cultures don't see the world in the same way that you do!

Pride cometh before fall is all I say, and mark my word, that will happen to your country very soon, the way your are going! And by the time that happens you will have lost most of your friends and allies. Since not even those are treated with respect, as Wikileaks revealed in no uncertain terms.

To people of that nationality, wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late - seek out some international news sources and don't just swallow the mindless propaganda on your commercial news channels.
And learn some geography!!

As unpleasant and hysterical as Ahmadinejad & co's rhetoric is, it is actually getting more true every year, as more and more countries are invaded or manipulated. Maybe it's not Satan who's behind this, as Ahmadinejad claims, but imperialism and greed certainly is.

Anyone who honestly believes that the USA *needs* to invade Iran for any reason has been well and truly conned.

end rant.

Are you ranting about Islamic nations and Arab nationalities? Because everything you've posted here seems to fit that description.

Whichever "nationality" you're speaking of, facts would suit your post better, otherwise, this post is just sentiment - and nasty, arrogant sentiment at that.

Hanna please do not use this forum to knock other democratic elected countries. You are welcome to post at other sites that tolerate this type of posting priviledges.

So there is really only one acceptable opinion to express in this debate? Is that what you are saying?

I am not "with you" so I must be "with the terrorists". Clever logic... Big "w" grin.
Or perhaps in your view, there is only one acceptable worldview for Christians?

I mistakenly thought that this was a debate and that a perspective other than the majority perspective was welcome, or perhaps a perspective from another part of the world than where the majority of the debaters are from.

Hannah, I believe this forum allows us to hold to our own opinions, but what it doesn't allow is members to accuse other members of being brainwashed, because they hold an opinion different from yours. I believe you have been too general in your comments. Not every American Christian supports war with Iran, nor do they all fully support national Israel. Each Christian is led by their own view of scripture, and they are genuinely trying to do the right thing.Bashing them with a big verbal stick, will not help get your point across. We can love our brothers and sister in Christ, even while holding to a different point of view. That's what Christ would ask of us.

I do believe that the media, in many cases, creates a moral panic by the way it delivers the news. It is not only an American thing, as I see it even here in the U.K. We would all do well to check our sources to get a clearer picture of what's going on, but that's up to each person to decide if they should do that. I don't think we can choose to trust one secular media over another, because they all bend the truth to suit themselves.All we can do is listen to the different views, and let the Lord lead us in the truth.

blessings to you :hug:

Thanks for the response, Indueseason.

The thing that got me annoyed was that a certain user made accusations towards me earlier in the thread, for just expressing an opinion. He was so fierce and dominating in the debate, that I felt there was no real point in participating since I would end up in an endless flame war. This is what got me started on the wrong side here.

Checking in on the thread a week later I noticed prejudice of monumental proportions that I found to be uninformed and biased.
I have visited both these countries and think a more nuanced view is called for.

Also... another war in the Middle East, supposedly to prevent bad people from doing bad things.. Started by those who would like to make that they are the "good" guys. So incredibly hollow.

With that said, I think it is best I stay away from this thread, because I doubt anyone shares my opinions here, or is even interested in hearing them. I'd just end up saying something un-Christian...

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Originally Posted by Hannah

Thanks for the response, Indueseason.

The thing that got me annoyed was that a certain user made accusations towards me earlier in the thread, for just expressing an opinion. He was so fierce and dominating in the debate, that I felt there was no real point in participating since I would end up in an endless flame war. This is what got me started on the wrong side here.

Checking in on the thread a week later I noticed prejudice of monumental proportions that I found to be uninformed and biased.
I have visited both these countries and think a more nuanced view is called for.

Also... another war in the Middle East, supposedly to prevent bad people from doing bad things.. Started by those who would like to make that they are the "good" guys. So incredibly hollow.

With that said, I think it is best I stay away from this thread, because I doubt anyone shares my opinions here, or is even interested in hearing them. I'd just end up saying something un-Christian...

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It is good to have passion about issues. The downside to that is we often overreact and make broad sweeping judgments that resort to stereotypes and false categorizations. I can assure you that all Americans are not brainwashed and stupid spoiled brats that drink the media kool-aid. You are very young in the Lord so we forgive you for making a mistake that even mature believers sometimes fall into. :)

Also keep in mind that even international news sources have a biased agenda

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Originally Posted by Hannah

Thanks for the response, Indueseason.

The thing that got me annoyed was that a certain user made

accusations towards me earlier in the thread, for just expressing an

opinion. He was so fierce and dominating in the debate, that I felt

there was no real point in participating since I would end up in an

endless flame war. This is what got me started on the wrong side

here.

Checking in on the thread a week later I noticed prejudice of

monumental proportions that I found to be uninformed and biased.
I have visited both these countries and think a more nuanced view is

called for.

Also... another war in the Middle East, supposedly to prevent bad

people from doing bad things.. Started by those who would like to

make that they are the "good" guys. So incredibly hollow.

With that said, I think it is best I stay away from this thread,

because I doubt anyone shares my opinions here, or is even

interested in hearing them. I'd just end up saying something un-

Christian...

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I can understand that frustration, most, not all, 'evangelical'

Christians let their biblical eschatology dictate their views on Israel

versus the Muslim States. I am not a Premillianialist in my

eschatology. I do not accept all that the Israeli government does as

correct. I believe they have to take precautions, because the

overwhelming Moslem attitude to Israel has been 'to wipe it off the

face of the earth'; that has been a political and, to a large extent

cultural, reality among the majority of Moslem nations since

Israel's creation by UN mandate in 1947, and the resulting partition.
However, I am old enough to remember the very scanty reports

that came out in 1967 about the Israeli attack on the intelligence

ship 'USS Liberty' just prior to the Arab-Israeli war in that year.

http://www.gtr5.com/

That being said, I am not blind to the historical, geographical, and

geopolitical situations that have forced Israel to be in a constant of

preparedness. Saber rattling by Moslem leaders, religious and

political, has been a staple of most Moslem activity for almost three

quarters of a century.
The present leader of Iran is no different. He ratchets up the

rhetoric to hide his own short comings, and huge problems, within

his own country. The geopolitical consequences of oil usage and

consumption make his leadership in Iran dicey at the best. This

present US government has neither the will, the strength, nor the

intelligence to adequately deal with Iran in both their present

conditions. Given the present political conditions in Egypt, Syria,

and possible Libya, the possibility of a number of full scale wars in

the mid-east, much like Southeast Asia in the seventies, just makes

for a very bleak picture.
Europe itself is dealing with a Moslem culture that would like to

take more power, but this goes back more than a Millenia when the

newly emerging Moslem religion swept across the Mid-East,

Northern Africa, and parts of Eastern Europe; the latest being the

Moslem wars in Eastern Europe after the final fall of

Constantinople. The Ottoman the last major incursion began with

the rise of the Ottoman Turks in the fourteenth century, finally fell

completely in the mid 1920's.

http://naqshbandi.org/ottomans/maps/

In more modern times, the events of 9/11/2001 in America helped

to polarize many Americans; though Moslem hijackings and

terrorist activities had been around since the seventies. The videos

of many Moslem's rejoicing after the destruction of 9/11 will be

hard for many to forget. I remember the Moslem riots and burnings

in France just six or seven years ago. I doubt if Western culture can

ever really exist side by side with Moslem culture.
All that I have recounted is really just 'the world' doing it's own

thing as we Christians live and follow our Lord in our daily lives.

The problem is, we sometimes let all that 'stuff' bleed over into our

lives, and then we react as purely 'human', and that can be a

problem sometimes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannah

So there is really only one acceptable opinion to express in this debate? Is that what you are saying?

I am not "with you" so I must be "with the terrorists". Clever logic... Big "w" grin.
Or perhaps in your view, there is only one acceptable worldview for Christians?

I mistakenly thought that this was a debate and that a perspective other than the majority perspective was welcome, or perhaps a perspective from another part of the world than where the majority of the debaters are from.

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Your views and perspectives are welcome. But yes, there is only one acceptable worldview for Christians. Not saying that it's mine, or "the Bibleforums view" - but it's not multiple choice, either. We're all working for the same Boss, and His worldview is the one we are all subject to and reaching to lay hold of. We can discuss and debate amongst ourselves (because Jesus is so humble, patient, and longsuffering towards us) as to what that worldview is, but we cannot imagine that there are multiple ones related to our personal cultural context.

My point isn't that you are "with the terrorists". My point is that what you said below could be said of radical Islamic Arabs as much as one could say it about whomever it is you were talking about. In fact, if a believer on this board said what you said below about Islamic Arabs, you would probably "rant" about it in disgust.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannah

I get really upset seeing how prejudiced and brainwashed lots of people of a certain nationality are, without any humility or perspective that other nations and cultures don't see the world in the same way that you do!

Pride cometh before fall is all I say, and mark my word, that will happen to your country very soon, the way your are going! And by the time that happens you will have lost most of your friends and allies. Since not even those are treated with respect, as Wikileaks revealed in no uncertain terms.

To people of that nationality, wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late - seek out some international news sources and don't just swallow the mindless propaganda on your commercial news channels.
And learn some geography!!

As unpleasant and hysterical as Ahmadinejad & co's rhetoric is, it is actually getting more true every year, as more and more countries are invaded or manipulated. Maybe it's not Satan who's behind this, as Ahmadinejad claims, but imperialism and greed certainly is.

Anyone who honestly believes that the USA *needs* to invade Iran for any reason has been well and truly conned.

end rant.

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I think that we tend to imagine we possess more information than we actually have in formulating our opinions. That, by definition, is arrogance. We can discuss and debate to our heart's content, but that means that we have to swallow the pill of correction that comes from another when we overstep our bounds in the discussion. To say it more "American": "If you're going to dish it out, you have to be prepared to take it."

That was my main point. "A soft answer turns away wrath" - yet you were heating up the rhetoric, not dialing it down. That's a human problem, not a European one. Therefore, I'm addressing you as a sister in the Lord, not as someone from the "minority viewpoint".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannah

I get really upset seeing how prejudiced and brainwashed lots of people of a certain nationality are, without any humility or perspective that other nations and cultures don't see the world in the same way that you do!

Pride cometh before fall is all I say, and mark my word, that will happen to your country very soon, the way your are going! And by the time that happens you will have lost most of your friends and allies. Since not even those are treated with respect, as Wikileaks revealed in no uncertain terms.

To people of that nationality, wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late - seek out some international news sources and don't just swallow the mindless propaganda on your commercial news channels.
And learn some geography!!

As unpleasant and hysterical as Ahmadinejad & co's rhetoric is, it is actually getting more true every year, as more and more countries are invaded or manipulated. Maybe it's not Satan who's behind this, as Ahmadinejad claims, but imperialism and greed certainly is.

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Hi Hannah. Many US citizens feel our great country is already falling due to the massive welfare state we are becoming. The entitlement mentality is growing over here and is reflected in our budget deficit. We are moving away from what has made us great, but that is not to say it has anything at all to do with the military action that has been taken. IMO, it will be the entitlement mentality combined with our budget deficit that leads to a great fall. All of which is based on, IMO, a lack of moral character as it pertains to God and His values. As far as I can tell, the US is not mentioned in the end times in scripture. I figure that means we no longer are able or willing to be a player in the world arena when that time comes. It seems to me, that time is fast approaching.

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Anyone who honestly believes that the USA *needs* to invade Iran for any reason has been well and truly conned

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Any reason? I guess it depends on what you mean by "needs". I do think there are some reasons for war that are valid.

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Originally Posted by Fenris

What is a "justified war"? When you personally agree with the cause?

Israel is afraid of getting nuked. Why is that not "justified"?

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Don't worry you will have your war. And I wouldn't be surprised if you do find "weapons of mass destruction" this time.

Not being a Christian, you wouldn't follow NT predictions, but the book of Revelation says that an empire will rise out of the people and nations of the Mediterranean that will resemble Alexander's Empire (Rev 13). That means it will control the area from Afghanistan to Libya to Israel to Greece to Turkey, including Iran and Iraq and Syria and Egypt. Returning to the opening post, this isn't the time period for an Islamic invasion , this is the time period when the West (represented by the harlot in Rev 17) will set up this new Middle East empire. Unfortunately most of those on this site are western and therefore do not understand that its the West who are the biblical perpetrators of conquering and establishing the beast empire that is arising in the Middle East with Turkey and Israel at the helm.

Russia and Iran can see this happenning and therefore hate the West for its financial imperialistic policies but are aware its an unstoppable force of media and political and military intervention.

You didn't bother to answer my question.

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Originally Posted by DurbanDude

Don't worry you will have your war. And I wouldn't be surprised if you do find "weapons of mass destruction" this time.

Not being a Christian, you wouldn't follow NT predictions, but the book of Revelation says that an empire will rise out of the people and nations of the Mediterranean that will resemble Alexander's Empire (Rev 13). That means it will control the area from Afghanistan to Libya to Israel to Greece to Turkey, including Iran and Iraq and Syria and Egypt. Returning to the opening post, this isn't the time period for an Islamic invasion , this is the time period when the West (represented by the harlot in Rev 17) will set up this new Middle East empire. Unfortunately most of those on this site are western and therefore do not understand that its the West who are the biblical perpetrators of conquering and establishing the beast empire that is arising in the Middle East with Turkey and Israel at the helm.

Russia and Iran can see this happenning and therefore hate the West for its financial imperialistic policies but are aware its an unstoppable force of media and political and military intervention.

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You are stating this as if all Christendom believes the west(US) to be the harlot...but that is simply not the case, or am I misunderstand who you mean by "west"?

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu meets with US president Barack Obama this monday, March 5. Let's see what comes of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannah

I get really upset seeing how prejudiced and brainwashed lots of people of a certain nationality are, without any humility or perspective that other nations and cultures don't see the world in the same way that you do! ...

As unpleasant and hysterical as Ahmadinejad & co's rhetoric is, it is actually getting more true every year, as more and more countries are invaded or manipulated. Maybe it's not Satan who's behind this, as Ahmadinejad claims, but imperialism and greed certainly is.

Anyone who honestly believes that the USA *needs* to invade Iran for any reason has been well and truly conned.

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In am neither an Israeli or US citizen but I do not agree with what you are saying. If anything, the US govt. has been rather restrained.

As for the Israeli govt, they tend to give as good as they get, but who can blame them when it comes to Iran?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by quiet dove

You are stating this as if all Christendom believes the west(US) to be the harlot...but that is simply not the case, or am I misunderstand who you mean by "west"?

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No I thought I was clear that westerners do not see this. As the English speaking world is predominately western this means that most on this site will not recognise the prophesied future role of the west in setting up this beast empire. I believe Christians should keep out of politics and concentrate on the gospel becuase the time is short.

Instead the very wars the Christian American public are openly supprting will lead to a co-operation between Istanbul (Islam) and Rome (RCI) where we are slaughtered according to Islamic law. The USA is setting up Turkey to be the head Islamic nation , the Arabs, the Kurds and the Persians are being sidelined with their Islamic "theocracies" so the only Islamic religious authority left will be based in Istanbul, run by Turks with no other claim in the Islamic world to ultimate religious authority. The west is creating Islamic unity by placing its ally, Turkey, as the Islamic leader of earth. If you cannot see the co-ordinated effort to weaken Islamic theocracies and create a west-friendly Middle East with Turkey and Israel in charge, I don't know. Its happening with an unprecedented speed according to a definite plan, and underpinned by a powerful media campaign.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DurbanDude

No I thought I was clear that westerners do not see this. As the English speaking world is predominately western this means that most on this site will not recognise the prophesied future role of the west in setting up this beast empire.

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Interesting!

I am not very knowledgeable about end time prophecies but I understand that many in the USA believe that the rise of the EU is related to end time prophecies. I would not deny that there seems to be a few uncanny matches between the prophecies and the EU but I wouldn't jump to conclusions just because of that.

On the other hand I personally think that most of the filth that is dragging down society seems to be coming from the USA at the moment. Certain types of entertainment, music and values. My view is that the USA was amazing up until 1950s, and then things started going downhill in terms of values, foreign policy etc. Something happened. Whether there is a biblical dimension to this or not, I really wouldn't know.

Would be interesting to see a thread about this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannah

Interesting!

I am not very knowledgeable about end time prophecies but I understand that many in the USA believe that the rise of the EU is related to end time prophecies. I would not deny that there seems to be a few uncanny matches between the prophecies and the EU but I wouldn't jump to conclusions just because of that.

On the other hand I personally think that most of the filth that is dragging down society seems to be coming from the USA at the moment. Certain types of entertainment, music and values. My view is that the USA was amazing up until 1950s, and then things started going downhill in terms of values, foreign policy etc. Something happened. Whether there is a biblical dimension to this or not, I really wouldn't know.

Would be interesting to see a thread about this.

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Here's a thread about the relationship of the 3 ancient cities prophesied to be in control:
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...el-Rome-Turkey

All prophecy is subjective, I believe the secret is to see the most obvious fit in each case, rather than being distracted by possible fits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DurbanDude

No I thought I was clear that westerners do not see this. As the English speaking world is predominately western this means that most on this site will not recognise the prophesied future role of the west in setting up this beast empire. I believe Christians should keep out of politics and concentrate on the gospel becuase the time is short.

Instead the very wars the Christian American public are openly supprting will lead to a co-operation between Istanbul (Islam) and Rome (RCI) where we are slaughtered according to Islamic law. The USA is setting up Turkey to be the head Islamic nation , the Arabs, the Kurds and the Persians are being sidelined with their Islamic "theocracies" so the only Islamic religious authority left will be based in Istanbul, run by Turks with no other claim in the Islamic world to ultimate religious authority. The west is creating Islamic unity by placing its ally, Turkey, as the Islamic leader of earth. If you cannot see the co-ordinated effort to weaken Islamic theocracies and create a west-friendly Middle East with Turkey and Israel in charge, I don't know. Its happening with an unprecedented speed according to a definite plan, and underpinned by a powerful media campaign.

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My disagreement has nothing to do with living in the West....It has to so with what many of us, regardless of where we live, believe the Bible teaches, the disagreement is there, not in our delusional Western mind....:lol: I disagree that the West, more so the US, is within Biblical prophecy....however

I would agree that there is a plan in motion that the West is being used and thus influential toward accomplishing, even to their own destruction...but it is not at the hands of the people, but 'the' Leadership that the leadership is following...but that is not to say that people are not following right along because of the genius execution of the Enemies plan toward the deception of the masses of all countries.

I see more clearly what your point is, and agree to a certain extent...where my disagreement starts is that the US, at this point, is anymore than a pawn in the Enemies plan. In other words, a nation so very blessed of God, once powerful and influential in regards to God, was the target and is now powerful:rolleyes: and influential toward the goals in a completely opposite direction, which would include the the shaping of the ME countries.

But, and this breaks my heart...my she is going to fall for it into complete destruction, and she will no longer be the major player she has been, but, as other countries, be absorbed into this One world business...imho....:cry: Satan simply could not execute his master plan if the US had remained loyal and faithful to the God she/the masses, once professed. Even her Constitution stood in the way...(Jesus + all that national sovereignty and freedom for the people ..nonsense and all)

But I am not so sure I agree with just what the goal of that shaping is...but I am also not so sure what you said, it seems to contradict itself...I'm sure that is just my lack of grasping what you said though.
With the bolded part you confused me. At first I thought you were saying that the intent was to weaken Islamic theocracies in other countries but then put that Islamic theocratic power into the hands of a few(Turk) Islamist.....and then last line threw me with Israel.....so now I am confused again...lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DurbanDude

All prophecy is subjective, I believe the secret is to see the most obvious fit in each case, rather than being distracted by possible fits.

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I'm sorry, not trying to be a pain, but I would disagree with this...understanding prophecy is not a matter of seeing what fits(unless we are looking back at fulfilled prophecy which will be fulfilled to the letter if it is the true fulfillment). But when it comes to what is still future...the Bible says what it says regardless of our ability to understand, grasp, or find "what fits".

There were prophecy teachers, pre 1948 that claimed Israel must once again be a nation for the end times prophesies to happen, and they were ...laughed at because most could not, by looking at world events, get that to "fit"....and as it turns out, it did indeed "fit".

Imho, anything could happen...we cannot determine the interpretation of Bible prophecy by what we see as "possible" in terms of the world around us...because with God, anything is possible, and what we see around us does not determine the interpretation of what is possible or what Bible prophecy declares will happen.

Don't get me wrong, I love watching and trying to figure it out...just also must always bear in mind...anything, or any turn of events could take place...imho

To the OP

It may be ... the stage is setting up for the time of the end in the Middle East ..... no doubt

Ezekiel 38:5 indicates that Iran [ancient Persia] will be part of a confederation of Middle Eastern states who will attack Israel during the coming 70th week decreed for the nation .... this time frame is the same as the coming tribulation which will include the Lord's pressuring of His nation [Jeremiah 30]

Nuclear weapons will not be used in the Middle East because there are many events scheduled to be fulfilled in the region according to the prophetic visions which would be prohibited by nuclear destruction and contamination

However, there is indication in the prophetic scriptures that WMDs of some invention will be used by Satan's antichrist to subdue outside opposition to his designs in the region .... nations outside of the Middle East proper will be utterly destroyed by this entity

Quote:

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Originally Posted by quiet dove

My disagreement has nothing to do with living in the West....It has to so with what many of us, regardless of where we live, believe the Bible teaches, the disagreement is there, not in our delusional Western mind....:lol: I disagree that the West, more so the US, is within Biblical prophecy....however

I would agree that there is a plan in motion that the West is being used and thus influential toward accomplishing, even to their own destruction...but it is not at the hands of the people, but 'the' Leadership that the leadership is following...but that is not to say that people are not following right along because of the genius execution of the Enemies plan toward the deception of the masses of all countries.

I see more clearly what your point is, and agree to a certain extent...where my disagreement starts is that the US, at this point, is anymore than a pawn in the Enemies plan. In other words, a nation so very blessed of God, once powerful and influential in regards to God, was the target and is now powerful:rolleyes: and influential toward the goals in a completely opposite direction, which would include the the shaping of the ME countries.

But, and this breaks my heart...my she is going to fall for it into complete destruction, and she will no longer be the major player she has been, but, as other countries, be absorbed into this One world business...imho....:cry: Satan simply could not execute his master plan if the US had remained loyal and faithful to the God she/the masses, once professed. Even her Constitution stood in the way...(Jesus + all that national sovereignty and freedom for the people ..nonsense and all)

But I am not so sure I agree with just what the goal of that shaping is...but I am also not so sure what you said, it seems to contradict itself...I'm sure that is just my lack of grasping what you said though.
With the bolded part you confused me. At first I thought you were saying that the intent was to weaken Islamic theocracies in other countries but then put that Islamic theocratic power into the hands of a few(Turk) Islamist.....and then last line threw me with Israel.....so now I am confused again...lol

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I appreciate you not getting offended and for trying to understand. Yes I believe the US is a pawn. The hard earned taxes of the vast American middle class is being used to fight wars on behalf of Zionism and to protect Europe's backdoor. Your armies are protecting Europe and are in many countries throughout the earth. I believe the electorate has been naive in accepting the images of the media, and accepting a political stance of interfering in world politics when sovereignity is a strong principle that shouldn't be broken.
I believe there are 3 parties to future world manipulation:
1) Rome - when the Roman Empire split, Rome has been the capital of a loose confederation of Western governments. From an alliance and race perspective the USA is included in this Western European alliance defined biblically as "Rome" or the "western coastlands"
2) Zionism - Jews in Israel, in Western politics, in Western lobbyist movements and in world finance and banking are influencing the west towards creating a world at peace for Jews. The American public is suffering because of these unnecessary wars. What I have against this, is that there is unethical manipulation of America's people and politics through finance and lobbying and media control. And Jews are setting up world peace before the timing of their Messiah.
3) Turkey - the traditional Eastern half of the Roman empire - Constantinople/Istanbul is co-operating with the west and Zionism and needing the West's help to create its own superstate in the Middle East. I suspect a future of religious co-operation to go with the current political and economic western ties.

The final result of this will be Islamic and Catholic domination of earth and a Jewish Messiah that is accepted by Islam as the Mahdi and Christianity as Christ returned. Only us true believers will stand against this and will be slaughtered possibly according to Islamic Law.

It is during this Jewish/Roman peace that will come to the world, that Turkey and Russia and the other Islamic states will surprise Israel because the world has grown tired of western manipulation. Gog and its allies will attack both Rome/Europe and Israel in the surprise end-times attack of Armageddon. This is why the leader whose tents are in Israel is surprised from reports from the north and east, just as Gog is attacking from the North and the East. (Ezekiel 38 and Daniel 11). Both sides at Armageddon are evil, and have gathered against God to fight over world domination. This is just like when God sent evil armies against an evil Israel in the past ( Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Rome). This all ends with the Jews finally crying out to their true Messiah who intervenes at the resurrection and the second coming.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by quiet dove

I'm sorry, not trying to be a pain, but I would disagree with this...understanding prophecy is not a matter of seeing what fits(unless we are looking back at fulfilled prophecy which will be fulfilled to the letter if it is the true fulfillment). But when it comes to what is still future...the Bible says what it says regardless of our ability to understand, grasp, or find "what fits".

There were prophecy teachers, pre 1948 that claimed Israel must once again be a nation for the end times prophesies to happen, and they were ...laughed at because most could not, by looking at world events, get that to "fit"....and as it turns out, it did indeed "fit".

Imho, anything could happen...we cannot determine the interpretation of Bible prophecy by what we see as "possible" in terms of the world around us...because with God, anything is possible, and what we see around us does not determine the interpretation of what is possible or what Bible prophecy declares will happen.

Don't get me wrong, I love watching and trying to figure it out...just also must always bear in mind...anything, or any turn of events could take place...imho

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I hear what you are saying, but maybe I should have just said that prophecy is not complicated to understand if you take a common sense approach. But u are right that some things are only revealed when they occur.

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Originally Posted by Hannah

On the other hand I personally think that most of the filth that is dragging down society seems to be coming from the USA at the moment.

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Europe is pretty much post-Christian today. Is that also America's fault?

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Originally Posted by Fenris

Europe is pretty much post-Christian today. Is that also America's fault?

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I believe that the following are responsible for the situation in Europe

1) Darwinism
2) Socialism - a nice idea but poison for Christianity. So reluctantly I turn my back.
3) Commercialism and superficial junk culture from the USA.


Not sure what order that should be in, but those are the main explanations for why Christianity is almost dead in Europe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannah

Not sure what order that should be in, but those are the main explanations for why Christianity is almost dead in Europe.

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Fair enough. I don't know either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hannah

I believe that the following are responsible for the situation in Europe

1) Darwinism
2) Socialism - a nice idea but poison for Christianity. So reluctantly I turn my back.
3) Commercialism and superficial junk culture from the USA.


Not sure what order that should be in, but those are the main explanations for why Christianity is almost dead in Europe.

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I do not know either, but I agree with you here.

The corruption of European populations goes back much further than that of any recent dogmas like those listed above

Just as do the cultures of the Middle East which pre-dated anything of western civilization

All of this perversion comes from the same source; a lost world of human intransigence against the Lord with Satan's push

The Lord dealt severely with this same kind of pre-flood behavior and the post-flood populations of the Middle East did not change course [Genesis 10;11]