In my understanding, 5-fold ministry is synonymous with the equipping gifts. That doesn't separate, rather, it shows a differing function that is as needed as, and equal to, the other gifts.
W :)
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In my understanding, 5-fold ministry is synonymous with the equipping gifts. That doesn't separate, rather, it shows a differing function that is as needed as, and equal to, the other gifts.
W :)
Thank you for that edification, I apologize for having to draw His sword to get to this point, now if we could convince amazzin of the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
Father bless.
Look at it this way too... to those who have and exercise the "spiritual" gifts of the Holy Spirit as per 1 Cor 12... the Five-Fold ministry are the ones who WILL disciple them in the USE OF those gifts of the Holy Spirit. Another reason WHY they are called to EQUIP the Body of Christ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
As Paul discipled the Body of Christ beginning in Corinth, today the Five-Fold ministry is to do the same but... many don't even believe in the Five-Fold ministry and look where we are today... A BUNCH OF UN-DISCIPLED Christians.
If the Five-Fold ministry was supported and they were able to do their job without so MUCH resistance from the Body of Christ... then discipleship would be IN EFFECT, all who exercised the gifts of the Holy Spirit wouldn't be competing with each other and on the other end... others would not be calling them "charismatic" as if charismatic is a bad word.
The Corinthians were un-discipled charismatics... Paul went in and fixed the problem. Today the problem still exists and without the support for the Five-Fold ministry to disciple the un-discipled... the problem continues and gets worse.
Hence the >900 denominations, or divisions (although manmade) in the body of Christ today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug1
W :(
Hooah, I agree 100%... I made an edit too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
Amen ! speak ! :pp :pp :ppQuote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
Pastors and teacher introduce Him to the lost and guard those things introduced.
Christ's words/corrections disciple the lost into His fold. Christ does the discipleship !
yea i will bow out not trying to cause some division.
my understanding of some things is limited, i only stick with what is in scripture.
fewarechosen,
As I see it now, my work is done on this thread too.
God bless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug1
Unfortunately tho, many charismatics did that to themselves. They earned that bad reputation..as in barking like dogs, uncontrollable laughter as Scriptures are read, and the list goes on, then attributing all of this to the work of the Holy Spirit.
But I wouldn't think this applies to all charismatics tho. But it does give even the good charismatics a bad name, since a lot of folks associate the above with charismatics in general, which isn't fair to the charismatics who would never do such things as the above in a million years.
That's where the term, holy roller, came from...those rolling around on the floor as being slain in the Spirit.Quote:
Originally Posted by divaD
W :)
You forgot "clucking" like chickens :)Quote:
Originally Posted by divaD
I agree, they did it to themselves EXACTLY like the Corinthians HAD DONE.
I agree. God put me in a charismatic church and there is order as per what Paul instructed. When God put me in that church I was fearful in simply raising my hand upward in worship to God.Quote:
But I wouldn't think this applies to all charismatics tho. But it does give even the good charismatics a bad name, since a lot of folks associate the above with charismatics in general, which isn't fair to the charismatics who would never do such things as the above in a million years.
Anyway... sure, many shoot themselves in the foot and others can't get past that, this is "A" charismatic problem not "THE" charismatic problem. Many more who are charismatic don't act or do anything like those who are shooting "themselves" in the foot but it sure seems the damage of this is spreading across to ALL the Body of Christ.
Some, just continue doing their charismatic worship and manifesting of the Holy Spirit as God wills (both inside church walls and also OUTSIDE church walls) and there is complete order and God is glorified. Some... look at any in the Body of Christ who manifest the gifts of the Holy Spirit and say "bad Christian" (persecution) and make sure the Holy Spirit don't do ANY of that within their church.
If the Five-Fold ministry could just do their jobs and EQUIP (disciple) the Body of Christ the proper way... then this problem would not exist.
Those who cluck like chicken and bark like dogs... they don't want to be discipled.
Those who will NOT allow the Holy Spirit to manifest in them ANY of the gifts of the Holy Spirit... they don't want to be discipled.
Those who do allow the Holy Spirit to manifest in them and they are moved in the Spirit as God wills... well, the middle is the toughest place to be located in my opinion.
If those in the middle step toward the barkers/cluckers... and try to disciple them, they are run out.
If those in the middle step toward the suppressors of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and allow God to use them and show them there IS ORDER in the operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, they are run out.
UNITY?
HARDLY!!!
The battle between the flesh and the Spirit is a raging one...el quencho will not win!Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug1
W :)
AMEN... that is why all I do is give testimony of the miracles and of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, I help those who are seeking truth from those scriptures about the gifts of the Holy Spirit and when people disagree because the testimonies don't align with their doctrines (since the doctrines OMIT scriptures), I drive on and keep posting the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
Maybe in general, some folks are scared of these things these days. I know I am. But I used to not be tho. I had some bad and disturbing experiences as a charismatic. One wouldn't think that should be the case with the gifts of the Spirit. So in my case, I have to wonder what it was that I was involved in? And I have to wonder why I would want to try and get involved with the alleged gifts of the Spirit yet again? If it didn't go well the first time, why would it go well the next time around?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug1
When I was a charismatic, I never witnessed any of the clucking like chickens, etc. But who knows, had I stayed a charismatic, I perhaps eventually would have found myself in the middle of that mess, with me also believing it was the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. The point is, I was pretty naive about things back in the 80s when I was a charismatic. Had I not broken away, I may still be just as naive, Just for the record, I am in no way implying that if one is a charismatic, this then means they are naive. I'm just saying that I was so naive back in those days that I can see myself falling for the clucking like chickens thing had I remained a charismatic.
There could be no counterfeit unless there exists a truth. I, too, have had bad "charismatic" experiences...all of which pointed me to discern more carefully what is, and is not, of God. I am sad to report that MOST of what I've experienced among charismatics is fake. Some simply will not wait for the Lord to move and, like Abram, take matters unto themselves. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, sis...but don't allow yourself to be deceived, either! God is faithful...listen for His small, still voice confirming, or denying, that something is of Him!Quote:
Originally Posted by divaD
blessings,
Watchman :)