Since Jesus knew in Gethsemane that God the Father's will
required him to drink from the cup, then wasn't his
request to have the cup taken away from him against
God the Father's will?
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Since Jesus knew in Gethsemane that God the Father's will
required him to drink from the cup, then wasn't his
request to have the cup taken away from him against
God the Father's will?
Jesus dealt with this throughout his adult life...from the start of his ministry. He knew he would die a terrible death.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasoncohen
In his humanity, he was dreading what was to come, But he stayed true to his nature, and followed the Father.
Nothing wrong with asking the Father to change his mind/will.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasoncohen
What is the end of his prayer? Nevertheless, not my will, but YOUR WILL be done.:saint:
But as Jesus knew God the Father's will, he knew there was no possibility of the Father changing his mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by ewq1938
I think of this verse written solely for our benefit, remember the Lord sweated drops of blood thinking of what He was about to endure, it is impossible to imagine the wrath of God owing to everyman and his judgment bearing upon Jesus at the time of the cross :( I think asking the father to remove this cup was not asking Him to change his mind, But is showing us if there was another way for God to wipe away our sins then He would do it another easier way rather than go to the cross. Therefore we know now there was no other way for God to purchase us for himself, He had to endure that cruel cruel cross, Why? All for us...
That isn't true.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasoncohen
That is still asking his Father to change his mind about the events he had earlier decided upon.Quote:
Originally Posted by boangry
How could he ask the Father to change his mind if he knew the Father's will all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by ewq1938
He was asking for him to change his mind. He didn't know the answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasoncohen
Jesus was prophesied to die without sin. He defined sin as disobedience to the Father's will. So in order for him to remain sinless, he had to know the Father's will at all times...or else he could have disobeyed it only to later justify his sin with a 'hey God I forgot...'Quote:
Originally Posted by ewq1938
Yes and he did die sinless.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasoncohen
Asking your father to change his mind is not a sin.Quote:
He defined sin as disobedience to the Father's will.
Incorrect.Quote:
So in order for him to remain sinless, he had to know the Father's will at all times
Impossible.Quote:
...or else he could have disobeyed it only to later justify his sin with a 'hey God I forgot...'
Quote:
Matthew 26:39 He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.”
I believe that the idea or thought here is that Jesus understood that in His Father's eyes He would
become sin for all the world, I believe that was such an horrible thing for holiness to endure.
Jesus would have looked at sin much differently than we do.
He was saying if there were only another way....but if there is not, then Your will I will do.
I believe those verses are describing His immense agony of what He was to endure, knowing the
awfulness of sin, not His fear of torture and death on a cross at the hands of wicked men.
Jesus never expected the Father to change his mind, he knew all along that he would die for the sins of the world.
It was a moment of despair, knowing the depth of suffering that was about to befall him.
So, he asked three times knowing his Father would decline? Hardly...Jesus was desperate and he sincerely pleaded with his Father to change his mind, to have that symbolic cup pass from him.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffweeder
Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up
prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that
was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the
things which he suffered;
Mark 14:35 And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and
prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.
what hour is this? and what does it mean for this hour to pass from
Him?
Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto
thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but
what thou wilt.
Father, you can do anything! you can take this cup away from me if
you want, but I pray this only in your will, to take this cup and
this hour from me only if you agree that it should be done.
Mark 14:37 And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto
Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour?
Mark 14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The
spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
Mark 14:39 And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same
words.
He prayed the same thing again. Please Father change your mind!
Mark 14:40 And when he returned, he found them asleep again, (for
their eyes were heavy) neither wist they what to answer him.
Mark 14:41 And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep
on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold,
the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.