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Deleted by Slug1: See Admin note and remain on topic in this thread.

Is that so? It seems pointing out illogical reasoning, and fallacies is being mean. It seems that pointing out grammatical rules is nothing more than my opinion. If that's the case what is left other...

Slug1, It seems I wasn't clear. It's not that can't answer them, it's that I'm not permitted to answer them.

Sorry Slug1 I'm unable to address them.

I believe all Scripture is irrifutable, but, how does this show names were written before the foundation of the world?

Hi divaD,

Here's how I understand that which is born of the flesh is flesh. In this passage Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus who is a Jew and believes that his entrance into the kingdom of God is...

Hi Keyzer,

The way the verse is contructed repentance and baptism are together, any argument that attempts to remove baptism also removes repentance. It's the way the passage is contructed.

Hi LV,

How do you propose we have that discussion? What are your thoughts? I think the biggest thing stopping the kind of Bible study that you are looking for is the fact that so many Christians...

This is disheartening Keyzer, however, I did suspect it. Here you've turned to these men for thier understanding of the passage and determined that we see sovereignty differently. It seems you've...

How did you that from my statemnt? I simply said that being God's workmanship does not mean forced obedience. God created Satan and the demons, no they are not in Christ, however, they were created...

Keyzer, all analogies break down at some point, however, the principle is the same. The Calvinist definition of sovereign is "NOT" the definition of sovereign. Look at any dictionary you choose,...

Hi Keyzer,

I think you've provided much information here.



Free will doesn't mean salvation is solely from man and that God is not in control. Consider a family and household. The man of...

Agreed, any argument made to exclude baptism by defaut excludes repentance.

Slug1,


Please stop misrepresenting the argument. I've made it clear that the verse that was 1/2 quoted was a reference to the ECF's, not baptism. You've still not presented as single passage of...

Where dos it say he was sealed with the Holy Spirit?

Jesus told the aposltes to make disciples by baptizing and teaching them.

Hi Mark,

I agree about the sacrifices. I didn't get my point across. What I'm getting at is the purpose for the sacrifices. Scripture tells us that the OT sacrifices couldn't take away sin, so...

I agree, Most of the time I don't use Mark 16:16 to support my case for baptism. Actually, I believe Act 2:38 seals the deal.

I wasn't necessarily looking to discuss it. I was just interested if you had evidence that I was not aware of. I personally don't put much stock into the fact that it is missing from the Alexandrian...

I answered your post, still no Scripture. Just one, that's all.

If you read the passage Slug1 you'll that the there were people who believed in Jesus and were water baptized who had not received the Holy Spirit. Let me ask you Slug1, according to what you've...

Thanks divaD, I wasn't aware there were quite that many ECF's that quoted it.

Hi PPS,

Just curious, what evidence do you have?

Hi Mark,

I don't think I got the point across on my question I agree with what you've post. God did tell the Jews to make those sacrifices. The question goes to the hear of the Penal model of the...

Slug1, you said if I addressed your post you'd give me the Scrpiture.

Luke, Paul's traveling companion and writer of the Gospel.


15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of...

Hi Watchman,

I'm amazed also at the reaction this gets.

Jesus states plainly, he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. That should end the discussion here.


This passage does not address baptism


Again, Jesus states clearly that unless one...

Hi Watchman,

I wasn't throwing stones either. I was simply making a observation about the permanent change that you saw in baptism.

Hi Mark,

Yes, I think if one is baptized as a Christian it is valid whether he fully understands what happened or not. It's God who is doing the cleansing so we just need to follow what He's said.