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I'd say the answer to that is Luke 19:42 "Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things [which belong] unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes."

The...

Joel Rosenberg is excellent. I thought Epicenter was spot on and his new book Inside the Revolution looks really good. Read a couple of chapters and will read it after I finish another book I'm...

I believe this is concerning the 2nd coming of Christ. I don't know that rapture concerns those in the "heavens." Interesting note, 1 Tim 5:21 refers to "elect angels."

They are coming with...

Well done my good and faithful servant.

I believe the position by pre-trib is that although posttribulationism was around early, Paul is combating that view, not embracing it.

third hero asked for some Bible verses:

I'll give it a try. I'll list the differences like this Rapture/2nd Coming, then provide some verses.

translation of believers/No translation involved
1...

It seems as even though the same word is used, it doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be same event.

Rapture -
Translation of believers
Translated saints go to heaven
Earth not judged...

I enjoyed reading Epicenter by Joel Rosenberg, probably because what he wrote lines up very close to what I believe is an end times scenario. Thanks for the update.

So I headed on over to the Blue Letter Bible and this is what they say about the term "is come" in Rev 6:17

* The Second Aorist Active Indicative verb form occurs 2,138 times in the New Testament....

Agree mostly My Hearts Desire, but there are some of us who also believe that there will be a time space between the rapture and the start of Daniel's 70th week. How long, no idea.

But doesn't Rev 6:17 say that God's wrath has come, as in past tense?

I personally think that Jesus was letting them know to not pay attention to worldly events as signs. He essentially calls rumors of wars and the rest non signs when answering the question about the...

I'd say it isn't an obstacle. How can spending time with God's Word not be profitable. Using what knowledge we have and correlating it with current events can be an opening to expressing the Gospel.

leebee saidThe World Tomorrow is a continuation of Herbert W Armstrongs World Wide Church of God. This in general has been considered by many if not all apologetic groups as a cult. There was a...

I think Scripture says we'll come back with Him at the second advent riding on white horses, Rev 19:14.

Now that I think of it, I see the post trib rapture this way. You suffer the great...

For those of us who believe in the pre-trib rapture, our argument would be that this verse says nothing of Jesus returning to earth. It says we will meet Jesus in the clouds and be with Him forever....

I'd suggest you take a look at their, World Tomorrow, statement of beliefs and tread carefully.

You'll have to excuse me, but I'm having a bit of trouble with you're interpretation here. Would you please tell me what you think it says.

I think 2 Thes 2:3-7 says that the man of sin cannot be...

Well doggonit someone's gotta stand up for the guy. Let it be me.

Now I don't watch him that often, but when I do I find his information intriguing. There's nothing wrong with trying to put what...

Out of reverence.

I like you don't totally buy into John representing the church, but I do think that his calling up to heaven is a rapture of sorts. What I do find interesting is that when John arrives in heaven the...

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Where in this time line would the death of Stephen in about 54AD fall. I would think that it was before #1 as Luke 21:12 states "But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you,...

Concerning the restrainer being the Holy Spirit. I believe that the correct full answer is that the restrainer is "the indewlt Holy Spirit in the church."

It seems to me that the Holy Spirit has a...

I'd like to say technically you are correct about the term tribulation. But I think where you may not be correct is that the term is an idiomatic expression or colloquialism that has been adopted...

Hey Cyber,

Here's what I see is the discussion point, please let me know if I'm wrong.

We have a time line in Daniel 9:25 "Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the...

I think this is the winner.

-When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand -Matthew 24:15

The book is good reading. Unfortunately your premise is bit off base, persecution is not God's wrath so you are comparing apples and oranges to make a banana split.

I take no offense as the question didn't seem to be delivered in a mean spirited way.

As stated above the word "rapture" is not in the English Bible. But the process of a rapture is. It comes...

Joe King said:
I guess terminology here is important. If by tribulation you mean general suffering and persecution then you are correct in believing we won't be exempt from that.

Deafpost said:...

I have looked at what you suggested and I still see two different events despite similarities. I think it is safe to say that no matter where you place the rapture (pre to post) that it is the...