Indeed it is. I can only pray that one day if/when we are all faced with the same circumstances we can all continue on in truth regardless of the adversity surrounding us.Originally Posted by Steve M
By His Stripes I'm Healed
Indeed it is. I can only pray that one day if/when we are all faced with the same circumstances we can all continue on in truth regardless of the adversity surrounding us.
Posting Freak
Regardless of what the thorn was, I find it interesting that the whole thing about boasting actually started in Chapter 10 about verse 8. The subject of boasting leads up to his subject of a thorn in the side. I believe the subject verse is probably 2 Cor. 10:17
But He who Boasts is to Boast in the LORD. NASB
Posting Freak
Ya, that makes sense....but I don't think the reason FOR the thorn is the issue.
I guess my point was that we are trying to figure out just what this thorn was, and in both cases, the thorn was a physical enemy rather than a physical ailment
Chal's Broer-In-Law
Brother Mark: "Is God telling him here "You have a sin but it is my will that you NEVER conquer this sin". Then we are saying that God desires for none of us to ever be able to walk a sinless life."
SIG: God also desires that none perish--but many DO perish. God also desires that His elect lead sinless lives--but none do, at least not this side of Heaven.
Because we still inhabit bodies that are perishing, we still have a sin nature lodged in us--like a thorn in our flesh. To say that Paul, because of his exceeding blessings, could completely overcome this sin nature would be to exalt him way too highly (as we may tend to do).
I guess I am maintaining that even though it is God's desire that we be sinless, He allows a sin nature to remain in us, so that we continue to rely on Him and His grace--which, through our weakness, we are able to see as perfect.
Phl 4:11 Not that I speak from want, for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am.
As righteous as Christ.
The difference in those other cases is that is man telling God no. Here, a man is humbly coming to God and God is telling him no.
"May the Lamb that was slain receive the just reward for His sufferings." A quote by Moravian missionary that sold himself (along with a friend) into slavery to reach those that the slave owner prevented from hearing the gospel.
May I live for Him and not for me.
By His Stripes I'm Healed
If Paul's thorn was a sin, God wouldn't have responded to Paul that His grace is sufficient.
Victory over sin is covered under God's grace.
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Chal's Broer-In-Law
Well--we know it was a "weakness."
?????
Phl 4:11 Not that I speak from want, for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am.
I don't know why people say the thorn in the flesh was a sin. The scripture doesn't seem to imply this.
there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me - 2 Corinthians 12:7
I think I read somewhere that one tradition said that Paul had developed epilepsy after surviving a stoning. And that's what he was describing.
Chal's Broer-In-Law
Could sins not be seen as messengers of Satan that buffet us?
Phl 4:11 Not that I speak from want, for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am.
By His Stripes I'm Healed
I think Paul goes on to make it clear that what he's going through is a physical issue when he talks of his infirmities. This same infirmity I believe Paul talks about in 2 Corinthians 11 in greater detail . . .
Here Paul discusses his infirmity at length and gives us a good indication of what he is speaking of in context. Paul gives us a description of many persecutions that he has endured for the gospel's sake.2 Corinthians 11:22-30
Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I. Are they ministers of Christ?—I speak as a fool—I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness— besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation? If I must boast, I will boast in the things which concern my infirmity.
As righteous as Christ.
Yes. But not necessarily in a sinful sense. Why? Because when Paul recognized that God worked through his weaknesses, he then experienced the power of God. When he learned this, he was happy for his weakness. So the weakness is more an inability on his part than it is sin, imho. Moses had a weakness with his tongue. Unlike Paul, he did not experience the power of God through his weakness as God intended. Intead, God had to appoint Aaron.
"May the Lamb that was slain receive the just reward for His sufferings." A quote by Moravian missionary that sold himself (along with a friend) into slavery to reach those that the slave owner prevented from hearing the gospel.
May I live for Him and not for me.
Chal's Broer-In-Law
I can live with any of these explanations...
This is, of course, an issue that has not been settled by anyone--so it's always speculative. (Which tells me it's not essential ?)
We can find out in Heaven--except at that point, we won't really care...
Phl 4:11 Not that I speak from want, for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am.
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