Behold He Cometh With The Clouds!!!!!!

[My heart's Desire]

The clouds I believe are symbolic of angels. (God was surrounded by a cloud in the wilderness, but then read Deuteronomy 33:2). .

Totally possible

[My heart's Desire]

May I ask what setting foot on this earth has to do with Christ coming?

Because Zech 14:4 says In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.

[Firstfruits]

The clouds I believe are symbolic of angels. (God was surrounded by a cloud in the wilderness, but then read Deuteronomy 33:2). Elijah rides a fiery chariot (2 kings 2:11) and the angels in some places are described as horses and chariots of fire (2 Kings 6:17). So basically they are different ways of saying that God is coming with his angels. The righteous will be resurrected and taken up, but the wicked killed. The different accounts of the event fill in the whole picture.

I think the biggest split though is the description in some places of Christ touching down (Zech 14:4) and in others the righteous are taken up. So I think there are basically two comings.

There was no mention of them seeing angels, other than the two men that told them how Christ would return. Niether of the scriptures state otherwise.

[ross3421]

The clouds I believe are symbolic of angels.

Correct. Now one step deeper......Who are the angels? They are spirits and after we die we are spirits minus this flesh........

Get my point.

Christ coming with angels or all his saints is not a contradiction because at that point they are one the same. Angels are spirits apart from a coruptable habitation. However angels "holy spirits" do for a point in time become one in those which call on the name of the Lord.


Mark.

[Firstfruits]

Because Zech 14:4 says In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.

Would this be on the new earth, the new Jerusalem, which shall come after the first heaven and earth are passed away when Christ comes?

[My heart's Desire]

Actually, many of us do agree about some endtime events such as what happens at the 7th trumpet, but the difference is that several believe something different happens to the Church as it is being called out today before the events begin taking place. We all look at the events now as if we are living because we are living and we're all not sure of where we are presently in how the Lord looks at the end of the age. Sorry, don't know if that made sense. Some look at the events of the 7th trumpet happening on earth, while all those who are the Church are already with Jesus.

[My heart's Desire]

Would this be on the new earth, the new Jerusalem, which shall come after the first heaven and earth are passed away when Christ comes?

Not on the new earth, for this happens during a battle against Jerusalem.
I would say somewhere around the time of what is known as Armageddon.

[My heart's Desire]

speaking of clouds, this reminds me of the passage in Hebrews, being surrounded by a cloud of witnesses. If they are clothed in white then so many would maybe look like clouds.

[My heart's Desire]

The vision in the first chapter of Ezekiel always fasinates me. There was a wind that brought a great cloud with fire flashing forth and a bright light around it with something like glowing metal in the middle of it. I try to envision maybe a clear day and a cloud like this coming from the north.
Inside the cloud are 4 living beings, with wheels.
Over the heads of the living beings were something like an expanse, and it was spread out over their heads. Above the expanse, over their heads was something like a throne and a figure on the throne. The radiance was like the "glory of the Lord". Anyway, when the wheels moved the beings went wherever the wheels went. I can't help but see the entire expanse, the throne etc, which are above the beings with wheels moving whenever the wheels move.

[quiet dove]

The church has already left the earth before the 7yr tribulation and have gone to heaven,they return with the Lord at the end of the tribulation. Those who see them coming are the saints who have not been killed in the tribulation period and those wicked people on the earth.

Why do people have to make this hard to understand when it is really so simple.

The thing you don't understand is Christ comes for the dead and living church at the same time. The dead in Christ rise first and then the living are changed in the twinkling of an eye. This catching up is different to the Lord's return, they are two seperate events.

I'm with ya on this sister. Dont find it complicated and it fills my soul with joy at the awesome glory and mercy of our Lord, Savior and King!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DIZZY]

I'm with ya on this sister. Dont find it complicated and it fills my soul with joy at the awesome glory and mercy of our Lord, Savior and King!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi quiet Dove,

Mine toooooooooooooo

[enarchay]

Jesus ascended up to His Father, the Ancient of Days, in heaven. But Jesus didn't descend down to earth in 70 AD.

The angel didn't mention but the One return of Christ in Acts 1 at His ascension from earth to heaven.

The coming with the clouds may not necessarily imply a downward coming, but an upward ascent. If it does represent a downward descent, it is the man Jesus addresses that will witness him, which would link it with 70 C.E.

[Allegra]

Acts 1: 9-11 tells us how Jesus was taken into heaven, and that he shall return the same way.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; And a cloud received him out of their sight.
Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand Ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as Ye have seen him go into heaven.

In Daniel 7:13. Daniel saw one like the Son of man come with the clouds.
Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

The following scriptures tell us of the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven after the tribulation.
Mt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power And great glory.
Mt 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mk 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming</SPAN> in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mk 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming</SPAN> in the clouds of heaven.

Revelation 1:7 tells us that every one shall see him.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Now have a look at 1 thessalonians 4:17 and see where we shall ever be with the Lord.

1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with Them in The clouds, to meet The Lord in The air: and so shall we ever be with The Lord.

This is the same manner as when Christ was taken into heaven.

Has the prophecy changed that Christ will come in another manner, other than how he was taken?

God's coming in the clouds of heaven is a symbolic way of speaking of His presence, judgment, & salvation. All through Scripture God was "coming on clouds" in salvation of His people & judgment of His enemies
Presence clouds:
Exodus 16:10
10And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.
Exodus19:9
9And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.
Leviticus 16:2
2And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the veil before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.
Numbers 11:25
25And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
Salvation clouds:
Psalm 18:9-12
9 He parted the heavens and came down;
dark clouds were under his feet.
10 He mounted the cherubim and flew;
he soared on the wings of the wind.
11 He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him—
the dark rain clouds of the sky.
12 Out of the brightness of his presence clouds advanced,
with hailstones and bolts of lightning.

Judgment clouds:

Isaiah 19:1
1The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
Nahum 1:3
3The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
Jesus was was using the apocalyptic language of the prophets to identify Himself as the Messiah:
Mark 14:62
62And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
All about hope:
Romans 8:23
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.(salvation clouds)

Rev.1:7

7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Has the prophecy changed, you ask? No. nothing written about that!

Jude 1:14-15
14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

[Soj]

God's coming in the clouds of heaven is a symbolic way of speaking of His presence, judgment, & salvation.

We are discussing the return of Jesus Christ to this earth, and this huge future event is not symbolic but literal!

The following scripture cannot possibly be symbolic, as they were watching him as he was taken up in a cloud, and then they were told that he would return in the same way, in a cloud:

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

All through Scripture God was "coming on clouds" in salvation of His people & judgment of His enemies

The prophecies of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ are all throughout scripture, yes.

Presence clouds:
Exodus 16:10
10And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.
Exodus19:9
9And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.
Leviticus 16:2
2And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the veil before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

The above scriptures have nothing to do with the return of Jesus Christ in the clouds, but are a reference to Jehovah God in the Old Testament when He showed his glory to Israel. Only Moses spoke directly with Him while the rest of the people saw the cloud, which was enough for them to believe God because the cloud was the sign they required!

Exodus 33:9 And it came to pass, as Moses entered into the tabernacle, the cloudy pillar descended, and stood at the door of the tabernacle, and the LORD talked with Moses. 10 And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door. 11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
Exodus 33:17 And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name. 18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory. 19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. 20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

Salvation clouds:
Psalm 18:9-12
9 He parted the heavens and came down;
dark clouds were under his feet.
10 He mounted the cherubim and flew;
he soared on the wings of the wind.
11 He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him—
the dark rain clouds of the sky.
12 Out of the brightness of his presence clouds advanced,
with hailstones and bolts of lightning.

This is the Second Coming.

Judgment clouds:

Isaiah 19:1
1The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
Nahum 1:3
3The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
Jesus was was using the apocalyptic language of the prophets to identify Himself as the Messiah:
Mark 14:62
62And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
All about hope:
Romans 8:23
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.(salvation clouds)

Rev.1:7

7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Has the prophecy changed, you ask? No. nothing written about that!

Jude 1:14-15
14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Most of those scriptures concern the literal Second Coming of Jesus Christ - that's what they are written about. You are just making spiritual application from the verses and ignoring the doctrinal teachings, probably because they don't fit in with your doctrine.

The literal interpretation of the Lord "coming in the clouds", as referring to the Second Coming and return of the Lord Jesus Christ to this earth, has been a fundamental Christian belief since the first century when Jesus ascended into heaven in the sight of those disciples, the scriptures themselves testify of this.

[Steven3]

I think the biggest split though is the description in some places of Christ touching down (Zech 14:4) and in others the righteous are taken up. So I think there are basically two comings.

Hi Wintermute
There's not a single verse which says "taken back to heaven", there's only 1Thess4:17 which says (in Greek) "go to welcome him in the air" That verb is only used - such as the brethren in Rome welcoming Paul - when they go out to the city gates to greet someone.

So there's no contradiction - all the verses speak of a touchdown, in Jerusalem.

Acts 1:9 Mt Olives -> Air -> Clouds -> Heaven,
Acts 1:11 Heaven -> Clouds -> Air -> Mt Olives

There is no rapture, except to Jerusalem.
God bless
Steven