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    The Law ( 10 commandments)

    There is a contradiction i am having a problem with " the Law " should i be keeping the 10 commandments ? some say Jesus done away with the law and we no longer have to be strict in obedience to it, some say it's just a guide on how to be a good person and please the Lord. But the Lord said he did not come to abolish the he came to fulfill the law, so should we therefore keep the law as the Jews the believe in Jesus do ? If so how can i keep the sabbath holy if all the churchs congregate on sunday since the catholic church brought it in. The only church that i am aware of that keeps the sabbath is the seventh day adventist church but i do not want to go there as i do not believe some of what they teach, i find it hard to even find a church that is true to the word am talking about preachers like paul washer and alike ! i like there message but no one seems to be doing it. Any way I try to keep the ten commandments but the sabbath is a puzzler to me and help is needed !!!! thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga View Post
    There is a contradiction i am having a problem with " the Law " should i be keeping the 10 commandments ? some say Jesus done away with the law and we no longer have to be strict in obedience to it, some say it's just a guide on how to be a good person and please the Lord. But the Lord said he did not come to abolish the he came to fulfill the law, so should we therefore keep the law as the Jews the believe in Jesus do ? If so how can i keep the sabbath holy if all the churchs congregate on sunday since the catholic church brought it in. The only church that i am aware of that keeps the sabbath is the seventh day adventist church but i do not want to go there as i do not believe some of what they teach, i find it hard to even find a church that is true to the word am talking about preachers like paul washer and alike ! i like there message but no one seems to be doing it. Any way I try to keep the ten commandments but the sabbath is a puzzler to me and help is needed !!!! thanks
    Hi Nobunaga

    Very good question. Couldn't have put it better.

    I started keeping the Sabbath on Saturday last summer when I reread Genesis 2:1-3 and saw the teaching of Jesus Christ and the apostles (especially Paul) in a new light:


    Genesis 2:1-3
    1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
    2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
    3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
    (KJV)


    to bless = To make or pronounce holy; to consecrate (OPTED Websters dictionary 1913)
    sanctified = to be set apart (Online Bible Hebrew Lexicon)


    I realised that the seventh-day Sabbath was brought into being well before God made any covenants (agreement, pledge) with Noah, with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and then with the children of Israel (Exodus 20, 10 commandments).


    Thus I began to change in my understanding of the following scriptures:


    Mt 5:17-19
    17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (KJV)


    17 ¶ "Do not for a moment suppose that I have come to abrogate the Law or the Prophets: I have not come to abrogate them but to give them their completion. 18 Solemnly I tell you that until Heaven and earth pass away, not one iota or smallest detail will pass away from the Law until all has taken place. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of these least commandments and teaches others to break them, will be called the least in the Kingdom of the Heavens; but whoever practises them and teaches them, he will be acknowledged as great in the Kingdom of the Heavens.” (Mt 5:17-19 WEY)


    Abrogate: To put an end to; to do away with. (OPTED Websters dictionary 1913)




    Eph 2:8-9
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (KJV)


    Eph 2:8-9
    8 For it is by grace that you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves. It is God’s gift, and is not on the ground of merit— 9 so that it may be impossible for any one to boast.” (WEY)


    I was able to see that Paul was not contradicting this statement of Jesus Christ (Mt 5:17.19) in his epistles when he tells of how we are saved by grace through faith, not by our works (by doing things to earn our slavation).


    (Christians are saved by our belief in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ for our sins which enables us to have fellowship with the Father and the Son (1 John 1:3). By continuing in His word we can maintain that relationship and come to the knowledge of the truth (John 8:31-31).)


    I see clearly from Genesis 2:3 that the seventh day Sabbath has been important to God from the beginning. Therefore seventh-day Sabbath-keeping is an act of obedience motivated by our love for Him.


    1Jo 4:19
    We love him, because he first loved us.” (KJV)
    Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, ‘For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.’ No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Rm 8:35-39

  3. #3
    I don't believe Jesus did away with the Law (He said He came "not to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it"). As such, I believe we are still under the Law, but whereas we fail to follow the Law (sin) Christ covers us with His atonement (since He perfectly followed the Law, He takes our place as having perfectly followed it).

    But at the same time, while Jesus did not abolish the Law, He... "overrides" certain Laws. For example, we don't have to follow the Law about sacrifices, since Jesus is our sacrifice. We don't have to follow any Laws about the ark of the covenant (God's "throne" on earth) since Jesus' throne is at the right hand of God in heaven. We don't have to follow the Laws about the priests, since Jesus is our priest.

    Matthew 12 also shows us that Jesus is the "Lord of the Sabbath." He is our sabbath. Also see Colossians 2:16-17.

  4. #4
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    My advise to you is to spend many hours in study and not look to men to give you an answer that may or may not please you. I was in the same spot 3 years ago when i wondered the same and i now observe the Sabbath, and follow the Law to the best of my ability. It is to be a sign between God and His chosen people. Some would say this applies to Israel only, but where is your citizenship if you're grafted into the same tree ?

    EDIT:
    I have posted in and created many threads about this very topic, if you desire some material for study, those threads could help you, or possibly confuse you. That's why i suggest you take this up with God, as he will not give you a snake, but He will give you truth.
    That's what i did, and God taught me so much during those 3 years.


    Shalom,
    Tanja
    Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
    2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
    If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
    http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/




  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga View Post
    There is a contradiction i am having a problem with " the Law " should i be keeping the 10 commandments ? some say Jesus done away with the law and we no longer have to be strict in obedience to it, some say it's just a guide on how to be a good person and please the Lord. But the Lord said he did not come to abolish the he came to fulfill the law, so should we therefore keep the law as the Jews the believe in Jesus do ? If so how can i keep the sabbath holy if all the churchs congregate on sunday since the catholic church brought it in. The only church that i am aware of that keeps the sabbath is the seventh day adventist church but i do not want to go there as i do not believe some of what they teach, i find it hard to even find a church that is true to the word am talking about preachers like paul washer and alike ! i like there message but no one seems to be doing it. Any way I try to keep the ten commandments but the sabbath is a puzzler to me and help is needed !!!! thanks
    Read the book of Galatians and Romans 1-8 and pay special attention to the first part of Romans 7 and 8. Also, you might find Colossians to be interesting reading, esp. chapter 2 and 3.

    That should help some.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    I actually keep Sabbath from Friday evening to Saturday evening, and have a worship service on Sunday. There is actually nothing in scripture that says it is required to fellowship with other believers on the Sabbath. And in my book, any day is a good day to worship!

    God Bless!
    II Timothy 2:15
    Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    Read My Testimony Visit Our Website

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Studyin'2Show View Post
    I actually keep Sabbath from Friday evening to Saturday evening, and have a worship service on Sunday. There is actually nothing in scripture that says it is required to fellowship with other believers on the Sabbath. And in my book, any day is a good day to worship!

    God Bless!
    Thank you everyone for your help in this matter, it seems there is a definete divide here or no coming together or agreement on the matter to put it another way. I'm in the same position as before as i have tried to research scripture and can find arguments for both sides !

    What do you do to keep Sabbath on friday evening to saturday ? i like your way of thinking ! keeping the Sabbath and still going to church but what do you do ?

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    Well look at the commandment.

    Exodus 20:8-11
    8 “ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day
    is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

    Remember it; that's the first thing. Gives you an idea that He knew that people would forget it at some point. Keep it holy; that's the second thing. So, what is holy? I like dictionary.com's number two definition.
    ho·ly /ˈhoʊli/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hoh-lee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, -li·er, -li·est, noun, plural -lies. –adjective 1.specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated: holy ground. 2.dedicated or devoted to the service of God, the church, or religion: a holy man.
    Dedicated or devoted to the service of God. I usually spend the day just enjoying His presence, enjoying His creation. If I have an opportunity to feed the hungry, visit the sick, or just generally help those in need, I do. That is the service of God, isn't it? Just as Yeshua healed on the Sabbath. My 'keeping' of the Sabbath, likely looks very different than what legalistic Sabbath keeping looks like, just as His looked different than what they expected. Oh yeah, I don't work. Now this confuses many because they don't know how to define work. I think the key is focusing on God, not ourselves. And understanding that the Sabbath was made FOR us, not to be a burden AGAINST us. I hope this helps as you seek God's will for you in this.

    God Bless!
    II Timothy 2:15
    Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    Read My Testimony Visit Our Website

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Studyin'2Show View Post
    Well look at the commandment.


    Remember it; that's the first thing. Gives you an idea that He knew that people would forget it at some point. Keep it holy; that's the second thing. So, what is holy? I like dictionary.com's number two definition. Dedicated or devoted to the service of God. I usually spend the day just enjoying His presence, enjoying His creation. If I have an opportunity to feed the hungry, visit the sick, or just generally help those in need, I do. That is the service of God, isn't it? Just as Yeshua healed on the Sabbath. My 'keeping' of the Sabbath, likely looks very different than what legalistic Sabbath keeping looks like, just as His looked different than what they expected. Oh yeah, I don't work. Now this confuses many because they don't know how to define work. I think the key is focusing on God, not ourselves. And understanding that the Sabbath was made FOR us, not to be a burden AGAINST us. I hope this helps as you seek God's will for you in this.

    God Bless!
    Thank you ! i try to read the bible every day and hardly ever watch tv anymore and am constantly looking for answers i dont have regarding God. Can i ask if you are Jewish ? just that i have been listening to Micheal Brown and other Jewish people that believe in Jesus and they make a lot of sense to me as a non Jewish person but explain the
    Old and New Testiment very well for me. and also with regard to the Law ! Sabbath included

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga View Post
    Thank you ! i try to read the bible every day and hardly ever watch tv anymore and am constantly looking for answers i dont have regarding God. Can i ask if you are Jewish ? just that i have been listening to Micheal Brown and other Jewish people that believe in Jesus and they make a lot of sense to me as a non Jewish person but explain the
    Old and New Testiment very well for me. and also with regard to the Law ! Sabbath included
    Nope; not Jewish. And I don't follow rabbinic law or tradition. I just read God's word and apply it to my life.
    II Timothy 2:15
    Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    Read My Testimony Visit Our Website

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    The best answer i liked on this topic was read the bible. No book has had a greater effect on me, it alone brought me to faith. My problems start with denominations and people in those denominations. Defend the bible only.

  12. #12
    Jesus-Is-Real Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga View Post
    Thank you ! i try to read the bible every day and hardly ever watch tv anymore and am constantly looking for answers i dont have regarding God. Can i ask if you are Jewish ? just that i have been listening to Micheal Brown and other Jewish people that believe in Jesus and they make a lot of sense to me as a non Jewish person but explain the
    Old and New Testiment very well for me. and also with regard to the Law ! Sabbath included
    Nobunaga,

    Hi there.

    I have a tape set called "The Law and Holiness" Volume 1, that you might be interested in which will bless you tremendously. If you are interested just pm me!

    Blessings,
    Connie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga View Post
    Thank you everyone for your help in this matter, it seems there is a definete divide here or no coming together or agreement on the matter to put it another way. I'm in the same position as before as i have tried to research scripture and can find arguments for both sides !

    What do you do to keep Sabbath on friday evening to saturday ? i like your way of thinking ! keeping the Sabbath and still going to church but what do you do ?
    Hi Nobunaga!

    I went through a period of searching on the same issue, some years ago. The bottom line for me was realizing that the Sabbath is specifically about having a rest! Since then I have observed over and over in my own life and in the lives of my children and friends, how important it is to have a day of rest. God's design for our lives really is the best design.

    While you are doing your Biblical research, look for the word "rest" and meditate on it. Especially read what Hebrews has to say about rest. The best answer you will get from anyone will be the answer God gives you from His word. Pray first, then study. Then follow the pattern,

    Listen (to what God has said to you)
    Meditate (on what He means by what He said)
    Obey (what you have come to understand.)

    When you have perfect peace about it, you will know that you have found the right answer.
    Blessings,

    Road Warrior


    Proverbs 4:23
    23 Guard your heart above all else,
    for it determines the course of your life.

  14. #14
    Jesus-Is-Real Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga View Post
    Thank you everyone for your help in this matter, it seems there is a definete divide here or no coming together or agreement on the matter to put it another way. I'm in the same position as before as i have tried to research scripture and can find arguments for both sides !

    What do you do to keep Sabbath on friday evening to saturday ? i like your way of thinking ! keeping the Sabbath and still going to church but what do you do ?
    Nobunaga,

    I hope God's Word blesses you richly.

    Matt 22:35-40
    35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
    36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    38 This is the first and great commandment.
    39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


    Rom 13:8-14
    8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
    9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
    11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
    12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
    13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
    14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


    1 Tim 1:5-20
    5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
    6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
    7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
    8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
    9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
    10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
    11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
    12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
    13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
    14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
    15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
    16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
    17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
    18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
    19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
    20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.


    James 2:8
    8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:


    1 John 4:7-11
    7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that liveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
    8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
    9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
    10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
    11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.


    1 John 4:19-21
    19 We love him, because he first loved us.
    20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
    21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

    Jesus never did tell Jew or Gentile to keep the Sabbath day (the Law is Spiritual since we have The Holy Spirit now). It spiritually means to stop, by God's Grace and Holy Spirit, doing your (past) works - sin and unbelief - and to rest with God, believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ - Loving One Another as He has loved us through His Life, Death and Resurrection to New Life. Paul never commanded the Gentiles either in keeping the physical Sabbath. When we are buried with Christ, ceasing from sin by God's Grace in walking after The Spirit of Truth, it is fulfilled in us. Each day you do that you show your New Life in Christ where even the Whole Law is Fulfilled. When you walk in Love toward God and others the Righteousness of the law is filfilled in you, because of what Jesus paid for us on the Cross, as you walk not after the lusts of the flesh - sin - but after the Spirit of God. We can only understand this by Revelation and The Grace of God. But the Gentile believers by nature do the Commandments and proves that the Law is written on their (our) hearts. You don't see many Gentile believers doing the letter of "Sabbath" but you see it instictfully in their lives. And they don't 'work it up' it's already being done through them which hangs on: Loving God surpremely and your neighbor as yourself and of course the New Commandment, Love One Another as Jesus has loved us in His Life and in His Death and Resurrection. I myself, at one point of my life, looked at the letter of the Law but I was missing Jesus, the Rightness of The Law, who it pointed to. Yes, do what others who sit in Moses sit tell you, Look unto Jesus who they are really teaching about, but don't do as they do because they DON'T see Jesus who they really are affirming yet they don't know.

    But mostly, God can show you by His Grace and Spirit; He's God,
    Connie

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    Hello Connie!

    I have NOT seen any scripture where Yeshua tells His disciples to STOP keeping Sabbath (as it was intended). He does tell them that the Sabbath was made FOR man. It's a good thing! I, for one, do not keep Sabbath legalistically as the religious leaders of His day were doing or even as the Orthodox Jews of today do. I remember it and in doing so I weekly celebrate God creating in six days and resting on the seventh. Which is one of the reasons He tells us to remember it. I also keep it holy by not letting myself get distracted by the busyness of this world. However, as JiMH has stated that she does, I also have used the day to help those in need.

    One thing I believe is important to see is that Yeshua spiritualized ALL 10 of the Father's commandments, however, in do so He does not negate the physical side of the command. For example, in telling us not to hate our brother He is not saying it's now okay to murder him. On the contrary, He is saying that if we obey the spiritual we will in doing so also obey the physical. It is the same with the Sabbath if we take the time to understand what the Sabbath is for. It is, as Yeshua said, for US! I spiritually rest in Him, and in doing so understand why the Father commanded man to rest (physically). I have known too many believers who have burned themselves out working 24 hrs, 7 days a week, 365 a year. Then once burned out they are no good to even themselves. Physical rest is good for our bodies just as spiritual rest is good for our souls. They are not concepts that need to be contrary to one another, but should rather work in conjunction with one another so that we, as believers, can be well rested; both body and soul.

    God Bless!
    II Timothy 2:15
    Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    Read My Testimony Visit Our Website

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