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Thread: The Law ( 10 commandments)

  1. #1
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    The Law ( 10 commandments)

    There is a contradiction i am having a problem with " the Law " should i be keeping the 10 commandments ? some say Jesus done away with the law and we no longer have to be strict in obedience to it, some say it's just a guide on how to be a good person and please the Lord. But the Lord said he did not come to abolish the he came to fulfill the law, so should we therefore keep the law as the Jews the believe in Jesus do ? If so how can i keep the sabbath holy if all the churchs congregate on sunday since the catholic church brought it in. The only church that i am aware of that keeps the sabbath is the seventh day adventist church but i do not want to go there as i do not believe some of what they teach, i find it hard to even find a church that is true to the word am talking about preachers like paul washer and alike ! i like there message but no one seems to be doing it. Any way I try to keep the ten commandments but the sabbath is a puzzler to me and help is needed !!!! thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga View Post
    There is a contradiction i am having a problem with " the Law " should i be keeping the 10 commandments ? some say Jesus done away with the law and we no longer have to be strict in obedience to it, some say it's just a guide on how to be a good person and please the Lord. But the Lord said he did not come to abolish the he came to fulfill the law, so should we therefore keep the law as the Jews the believe in Jesus do ? If so how can i keep the sabbath holy if all the churchs congregate on sunday since the catholic church brought it in. The only church that i am aware of that keeps the sabbath is the seventh day adventist church but i do not want to go there as i do not believe some of what they teach, i find it hard to even find a church that is true to the word am talking about preachers like paul washer and alike ! i like there message but no one seems to be doing it. Any way I try to keep the ten commandments but the sabbath is a puzzler to me and help is needed !!!! thanks
    Hi Nobunaga

    Very good question. Couldn't have put it better.

    I started keeping the Sabbath on Saturday last summer when I reread Genesis 2:1-3 and saw the teaching of Jesus Christ and the apostles (especially Paul) in a new light:


    Genesis 2:1-3
    1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
    2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
    3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
    (KJV)


    to bless = To make or pronounce holy; to consecrate (OPTED Websters dictionary 1913)
    sanctified = to be set apart (Online Bible Hebrew Lexicon)


    I realised that the seventh-day Sabbath was brought into being well before God made any covenants (agreement, pledge) with Noah, with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and then with the children of Israel (Exodus 20, 10 commandments).


    Thus I began to change in my understanding of the following scriptures:


    Mt 5:17-19
    17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (KJV)


    17 ¶ "Do not for a moment suppose that I have come to abrogate the Law or the Prophets: I have not come to abrogate them but to give them their completion. 18 Solemnly I tell you that until Heaven and earth pass away, not one iota or smallest detail will pass away from the Law until all has taken place. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of these least commandments and teaches others to break them, will be called the least in the Kingdom of the Heavens; but whoever practises them and teaches them, he will be acknowledged as great in the Kingdom of the Heavens.” (Mt 5:17-19 WEY)


    Abrogate: To put an end to; to do away with. (OPTED Websters dictionary 1913)




    Eph 2:8-9
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (KJV)


    Eph 2:8-9
    8 For it is by grace that you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves. It is God’s gift, and is not on the ground of merit— 9 so that it may be impossible for any one to boast.” (WEY)


    I was able to see that Paul was not contradicting this statement of Jesus Christ (Mt 5:17.19) in his epistles when he tells of how we are saved by grace through faith, not by our works (by doing things to earn our slavation).


    (Christians are saved by our belief in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ for our sins which enables us to have fellowship with the Father and the Son (1 John 1:3). By continuing in His word we can maintain that relationship and come to the knowledge of the truth (John 8:31-31).)


    I see clearly from Genesis 2:3 that the seventh day Sabbath has been important to God from the beginning. Therefore seventh-day Sabbath-keeping is an act of obedience motivated by our love for Him.


    1Jo 4:19
    We love him, because he first loved us.” (KJV)
    Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, ‘For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.’ No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Rm 8:35-39

  3. #3
    I don't believe Jesus did away with the Law (He said He came "not to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it"). As such, I believe we are still under the Law, but whereas we fail to follow the Law (sin) Christ covers us with His atonement (since He perfectly followed the Law, He takes our place as having perfectly followed it).

    But at the same time, while Jesus did not abolish the Law, He... "overrides" certain Laws. For example, we don't have to follow the Law about sacrifices, since Jesus is our sacrifice. We don't have to follow any Laws about the ark of the covenant (God's "throne" on earth) since Jesus' throne is at the right hand of God in heaven. We don't have to follow the Laws about the priests, since Jesus is our priest.

    Matthew 12 also shows us that Jesus is the "Lord of the Sabbath." He is our sabbath. Also see Colossians 2:16-17.

  4. #4
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    My advise to you is to spend many hours in study and not look to men to give you an answer that may or may not please you. I was in the same spot 3 years ago when i wondered the same and i now observe the Sabbath, and follow the Law to the best of my ability. It is to be a sign between God and His chosen people. Some would say this applies to Israel only, but where is your citizenship if you're grafted into the same tree ?

    EDIT:
    I have posted in and created many threads about this very topic, if you desire some material for study, those threads could help you, or possibly confuse you. That's why i suggest you take this up with God, as he will not give you a snake, but He will give you truth.
    That's what i did, and God taught me so much during those 3 years.


    Shalom,
    Tanja
    Jer 6:16 Thus says the Lord: Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way lies; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls.
    2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
    If it's not done out of unselfish love, then it's hardly righteous.
    http://disciple2yeshua.wordpress.com/




  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga View Post
    There is a contradiction i am having a problem with " the Law " should i be keeping the 10 commandments ? some say Jesus done away with the law and we no longer have to be strict in obedience to it, some say it's just a guide on how to be a good person and please the Lord. But the Lord said he did not come to abolish the he came to fulfill the law, so should we therefore keep the law as the Jews the believe in Jesus do ? If so how can i keep the sabbath holy if all the churchs congregate on sunday since the catholic church brought it in. The only church that i am aware of that keeps the sabbath is the seventh day adventist church but i do not want to go there as i do not believe some of what they teach, i find it hard to even find a church that is true to the word am talking about preachers like paul washer and alike ! i like there message but no one seems to be doing it. Any way I try to keep the ten commandments but the sabbath is a puzzler to me and help is needed !!!! thanks
    Read the book of Galatians and Romans 1-8 and pay special attention to the first part of Romans 7 and 8. Also, you might find Colossians to be interesting reading, esp. chapter 2 and 3.

    That should help some.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  6. #6
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    I actually keep Sabbath from Friday evening to Saturday evening, and have a worship service on Sunday. There is actually nothing in scripture that says it is required to fellowship with other believers on the Sabbath. And in my book, any day is a good day to worship!

    God Bless!
    II Timothy 2:15
    Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    Read My Testimony Visit Our Website

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    Quote Originally Posted by Studyin'2Show View Post
    I actually keep Sabbath from Friday evening to Saturday evening, and have a worship service on Sunday. There is actually nothing in scripture that says it is required to fellowship with other believers on the Sabbath. And in my book, any day is a good day to worship!

    God Bless!
    Thank you everyone for your help in this matter, it seems there is a definete divide here or no coming together or agreement on the matter to put it another way. I'm in the same position as before as i have tried to research scripture and can find arguments for both sides !

    What do you do to keep Sabbath on friday evening to saturday ? i like your way of thinking ! keeping the Sabbath and still going to church but what do you do ?

  8. #8
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    Well look at the commandment.

    Exodus 20:8-11
    8 “ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day
    is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

    Remember it; that's the first thing. Gives you an idea that He knew that people would forget it at some point. Keep it holy; that's the second thing. So, what is holy? I like dictionary.com's number two definition.
    ho·ly /ˈhoʊli/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hoh-lee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, -li·er, -li·est, noun, plural -lies. –adjective 1.specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated: holy ground. 2.dedicated or devoted to the service of God, the church, or religion: a holy man.
    Dedicated or devoted to the service of God. I usually spend the day just enjoying His presence, enjoying His creation. If I have an opportunity to feed the hungry, visit the sick, or just generally help those in need, I do. That is the service of God, isn't it? Just as Yeshua healed on the Sabbath. My 'keeping' of the Sabbath, likely looks very different than what legalistic Sabbath keeping looks like, just as His looked different than what they expected. Oh yeah, I don't work. Now this confuses many because they don't know how to define work. I think the key is focusing on God, not ourselves. And understanding that the Sabbath was made FOR us, not to be a burden AGAINST us. I hope this helps as you seek God's will for you in this.

    God Bless!
    II Timothy 2:15
    Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    Read My Testimony Visit Our Website

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    Quote Originally Posted by Studyin'2Show View Post
    Well look at the commandment.


    Remember it; that's the first thing. Gives you an idea that He knew that people would forget it at some point. Keep it holy; that's the second thing. So, what is holy? I like dictionary.com's number two definition. Dedicated or devoted to the service of God. I usually spend the day just enjoying His presence, enjoying His creation. If I have an opportunity to feed the hungry, visit the sick, or just generally help those in need, I do. That is the service of God, isn't it? Just as Yeshua healed on the Sabbath. My 'keeping' of the Sabbath, likely looks very different than what legalistic Sabbath keeping looks like, just as His looked different than what they expected. Oh yeah, I don't work. Now this confuses many because they don't know how to define work. I think the key is focusing on God, not ourselves. And understanding that the Sabbath was made FOR us, not to be a burden AGAINST us. I hope this helps as you seek God's will for you in this.

    God Bless!
    Thank you ! i try to read the bible every day and hardly ever watch tv anymore and am constantly looking for answers i dont have regarding God. Can i ask if you are Jewish ? just that i have been listening to Micheal Brown and other Jewish people that believe in Jesus and they make a lot of sense to me as a non Jewish person but explain the
    Old and New Testiment very well for me. and also with regard to the Law ! Sabbath included

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga View Post
    Thank you ! i try to read the bible every day and hardly ever watch tv anymore and am constantly looking for answers i dont have regarding God. Can i ask if you are Jewish ? just that i have been listening to Micheal Brown and other Jewish people that believe in Jesus and they make a lot of sense to me as a non Jewish person but explain the
    Old and New Testiment very well for me. and also with regard to the Law ! Sabbath included
    Nope; not Jewish. And I don't follow rabbinic law or tradition. I just read God's word and apply it to my life.
    II Timothy 2:15
    Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    Read My Testimony Visit Our Website

  11. #11
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    The best answer i liked on this topic was read the bible. No book has had a greater effect on me, it alone brought me to faith. My problems start with denominations and people in those denominations. Defend the bible only.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga View Post
    There is a contradiction i am having a problem with " the Law " should i be keeping the 10 commandments ? some say Jesus done away with the law and we no longer have to be strict in obedience to it, some say it's just a guide on how to be a good person and please the Lord. But the Lord said he did not come to abolish the he came to fulfill the law, so should we therefore keep the law as the Jews the believe in Jesus do ?
    Excellent question and one that I struggled with for a long time myself. I will do my best to try to help you in what I have learned in my previous struggle with this same topic. It just recently was made known to me and I finally feel at peace, thanks to God. I hope I can help you in your journey to seek understanding. You will probably get a lot of different responses so don't just pick which one you want to believe, but believe in God and his word only. Continue to pray and read God's word. I only want to help you from what I learned through my journey.

    We are no longer under the law of Moses.
    We are no longer in bondage to the law of Moses.
    Is the law necessary? - Yes, to lead us to Christ.
    "The Law is the schoolmaster to leads us to Christ". - (Galatians 3:24) The Law shows us our sin, which is why we need Christ to save us. Christ fulfilled God's requirement of the law and also paid the penalty we deserve for breaking God's law. Christ is where we find righteousness, not by obedience to the law. If we are justified by the law, Christ died for nothing.
    "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" - (Galatians 2:21)
    If we try to obey the 10 commandments (even out of Love for God) to get to heaven then we are not accepting the free gift from God in Jesus Christ, but are trying to earn our way in. It is impossible to earn a gift, therefore we have to receive God's gift and follow Jesus. No one is declared righteous by the Law.
    We are now under the law of Christ - (Galatians 6:2)
    The Law of Christ is this...
    “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” - (Matthew 22:37-40).
    If we do these two things, we will be fulfilling all that Christ wants for us to do, “This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” - (1 John 5:3).
    The Ten Commandments are not even applicable to Christians, except to lead us to Christ. However, 9 of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God we won't be worshipping other gods or worshipping idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we won't be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. So, we are not under any of the requirements of the Old Testament law. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we do those two things faithfully, everything else will fall into place. We get the desires to do these things after we turn to Jesus with our 100% trust, knowing that Jesus alone can save us and nothing else. We are given new hearts with new desires. Although we still have temptatians and struggles, after we turn to Jesus, we will desire the things of God.

    Jesus did come to fulfill the law and not to abolish or do away with the law (Matthew 5:17-18).
    Jesus did not suggest that the law of Moses would remain in effect forever. That would contradict everything we learn in the New Testament.
    "Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes" - (Romans 10:4)
    "Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. - (Galatians 3:23-25)
    "By abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. - (Ephesians 2:15)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga View Post
    If so how can i keep the sabbath holy if all the churchs congregate on sunday since the catholic church brought it in. Any way I try to keep the ten commandments but the sabbath is a puzzler to me and help is needed !!!! thanks
    Your question specifically regarding the Sabbath. Again, you will get many different views so continue your journey through prayer and God's word.

    "Sabbath rest" is the wonderful rest and peace that comes to us in Jesus because of His finished work for us on the cross. We no longer have 'work', Jesus did the 'work' for us and now our rest comes through Jesus Christ. Rest in Jesus Christ.

    Our works, our sins, are finished on His cross. He finished the work and He finished our sins. The Son set and He brought eternal Sabbath-rest into our lives.

    To those who believe...Our sins are finished. Our old lives are finished. We died with Him and are living in Him now, in the eternal Sabbath of His love, His life.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by shnfx View Post
    **snip**
    If we try to obey the 10 commandments (even out of Love for God) to get to heaven then we are not accepting the free gift from God in Jesus Christ, but are trying to earn our way in. It is impossible to earn a gift, therefore we have to receive God's gift and follow Jesus. No one is declared righteous by the Law.
    **snip**
    The Ten Commandments are not even applicable to Christians, except to lead us to Christ. However, 9 of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). **snip**
    I just wanted to address a couple of things you posted so I pulled out those little snips. First, I can only speak for myself, but I have never once eluded that we are to 'get into heaven' by keeping the commandments. God forbid! May no one ever be deceived into thinking this! I do not and could not do ANYTHING to earn my way to glory. As scripture says that is a free gift. Remembering the Sabbath has nothing to do with my salvation. I have been made righteous by the blood of Messiah alone! I just wanted to share that so you would understand that keeping Sabbath in no way means rejecting the free gift of salvation through the blood of Yeshua.

    Next, I'd like comment on your assertion that only 9 of the 10 commandments being repeated in the Apostolic Scriptures. I disagree and believe that all 10 commandments were confirmed by Messiah.

    Luke 4:16
    - So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.

    Mark 2:27 - And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

    The Sabbath, according to Yeshua, was made FOR us, so I have no trouble enjoying this free gift, as well!

    God Bless!
    II Timothy 2:15
    Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobunaga View Post
    i am having a problem with " the Law " should i be keeping the 10 commandments ?
    Of course!!! Keeping the Sabbath set apart for the Lord is not difficult. I don't believe that specifically involves going to church on a Saturday. The Jewish Sabbath commemorated the day God rested when His Work of Creating the universe and everything in it was finished. As Christians we commemorate the day Jesus Christ rose from the dead - commemorating when His Work of Salvation was completed, which was the 'first day of the week' which is Sunday.

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