Does The Gift of Tongues Exist Today?

[obeytheword]

In the first century people were raised from the dead and healed of handicaps they had since birth. Any documentation of this that I can review? Does it always only happen in "third world countries" where it would be impossible to verify?

The reason I ask is because the gift of speaking in tongues and the gift of healing, etc., seem to be connected. If one is available today, ALL should be. Do you agree?

If one of your best friends grew up in Thailand - son of missionary parents, and he could affirm how he had seen bones knit together in front of his eyes would that impact your belief? It among other things has mine.

You believe in MANY things you do not have irrefutable proof of - pretty much everything involving your faith you do not believe because you have scientifically verifiable proof of (at least I hope not)

The bible says this happened, and never says it has stopped - so why would you conclude it stopped?

If you limit your faith to what you have "proof" of, then you will be limited in what you can believe - no offense intended. Faith IS by definition belief in things unseen afterall


This is not to say that I believe every time I hear of a supposed "miracle" happening. The word of faith movement is filled with a bunch of idiots and money-hungry people - though there are genuine Christians and anointed people even there. Satan of course would love to confuse the issue, and give us reason to conclude that the spirit does not have power, and it is all a bunch of junk. Look what he did in Corinth WITH the gift of tongues and the counterfeit?

Be Blessed!

[obeytheword]

The reason I highlighted "by the hand of men" is because God can surely heal people through His own processes, whether that would be miraculous or providential.

However, in the first century men laid hands on the sick and they were immediately and completely healed. I have never seen evidence of this happening in our times. If you have some evidence, I would love to explore it!

Just be careful not to be Thomas

I know there is a counsel I used to have a website for of Doctors who would independently verify divine healings. They could refute - or at least come up with alternate possibilities for a great number of them, but many they had very specific scientific proof of the healing occurring, and could not in any way refute it. These are not Christian doctors who just want to push it through, but mostly secular ones who would honestly like to disprove the results if possible.

Anyway, I will dig around, and see if I can find the website - been awhile since I have been on there.

Be Blessed!

[menJesus]

In the first century people were raised from the dead and healed of handicaps they had since birth. Any documentation of this that I can review? Does it always only happen in "third world countries" where it would be impossible to verify?

The reason I ask is because the gift of speaking in tongues and the gift of healing, etc., seem to be connected. If one is available today, ALL should be. Do you agree?

The only connection I know of is that they are gifts given by the same Spirit.

Do a Google search on "raised from the dead" - I am on pp 32 and still reading...

There are threads of healings on here, also.

God never left us - WE - as a people - left Him. That is why the miracles and healings are so rare nowadays.

[Matt14]

If one of your best friends grew up in Thailand - son of missionary parents, and he could affirm how he had seen bones knit together in front of his eyes would that impact your belief? It among other things has mine.

You believe in MANY things you do not have irrefutable proof of - pretty much everything involving your faith you do not believe because you have scientifically verifiable proof of (at least I hope not)

The bible says this happened, and never says it has stopped - so why would you conclude it stopped?

If you limit your faith to what you have "proof" of, then you will be limited in what you can believe - no offense intended. Faith IS by definition belief in things unseen afterall


This is not to say that I believe every time I hear of a supposed "miracle" happening. The word of faith movement is filled with a bunch of idiots and money-hungry people - though there are genuine Christians and anointed people even there. Satan of course would love to confuse the issue, and give us reason to conclude that the spirit does not have power, and it is all a bunch of junk. Look what he did in Corinth WITH the gift of tongues and the counterfeit?

Be Blessed!

On the contrary, I believe the Bible does teach that these gifts have passed away. Perhaps we could study that together, in a more suitable format (not in this thread).

I'm not in this thread to discourage you, or challenge everything you think and feel. Just throwing out some food for thought.

I've been interested in this topic lately. One book I ordered recently is this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310201551

Maybe I'll learn something from reading this book that I can share.

As for your friend's story, I would have to have a lot more information before I could believe such a thing. How old was he? What was the person's name who received this miracle? Who was the person laying hands on him to do the healing? Names, addresses, phone numbers, etc.

Do you have these sorts of information? I would love to see some more information on what you are claiming.

[Matt14]

Just be careful not to be Thomas

I know there is a counsel I used to have a website for of Doctors who would independently verify divine healings. They could refute - or at least come up with alternate possibilities for a great number of them, but many they had very specific scientific proof of the healing occurring, and could not in any way refute it. These are not Christian doctors who just want to push it through, but mostly secular ones who would honestly like to disprove the results if possible.

Anyway, I will dig around, and see if I can find the website - been awhile since I have been on there.

Be Blessed!

What kind of healings, though?

God tells us to pray for the sick. If they could not be healed by Him, He would not tell us to pray! So I believe that God does heal, if it is His will.

However, it's that part about people still having miraculous power to heal that I take issue with. I'm definitely a cessationist.

Anyway, not trying to stray away from the topic of tongues. But I think the miraculous powers and the tongue speaking go together, in my understanding.

God bless! Thanks for the good discussion.

[Matt14]

The only connection I know of is that they are gifts given by the same Spirit.

Do a Google search on "raised from the dead" - I am on pp 32 and still reading...

There are threads of healings on here, also.

God never left us - WE - as a people - left Him. That is why the miracles and healings are so rare nowadays.

No one has said "God has left us." That's a false assumption of people who believe the miraculous gifts have passed away.

The truth of the cessationist view is not that they think God has "left us," but just that He allowed the apostles to perform miraculous deeds in order to confirm that the word they preached was true:

Heb 2:3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
Heb 2:4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?

The purpose of the signs and wonders was to witness to the word. Now that the complete will of God is revealed and contained in scripture, there is no need for these gifts, in my understanding.

But, perhaps that's a discuss to have in another thread, on another day.

[VerticalReality]

The purpose of the signs and wonders was to witness to the word. Now that the complete will of God is revealed and contained in scripture, there is no need for these gifts, in my understanding.

Just curious, but why do you believe that the Word needed witnessed to then but it doesn't need witnessed to today? Just going by my own experience dealing with unbelievers, those signs are very much needed. How many times have you heard an unbeliever state something to the effect of . . .

"What makes your Scriptures right and the Islam scriptures wrong?"

or . . .

"There are so many religions in this world . . . what makes yours the right one?"

How do you answer such a question, Matt14, and how do you assure an unbeliever that what you are saying is true and what Islam says is false? Why should an unbeliever believe you as opposed to the Muslim down the street telling him that he should follow Muhammed?

[Matt14]

Just curious, but why do you believe that the Word needed witnessed to then but it doesn't need witnessed to today? Just going by my own experience dealing with unbelievers, those signs are very much needed. How many times have you heard an unbeliever state something to the effect of . . .

"What makes your Scriptures right and the Islam scriptures wrong?"

or . . .

"There are so many religions in this world . . . what makes yours the right one?"

How do you answer such a question, Matt14, and how do you assure an unbeliever that what you are saying is true and what Islam says is false? Why should an unbeliever believe you as opposed to the Muslim down the street telling him that he should follow Muhammed?

Well, to begin with, if the Bible is not enough to bring about belief, then we are in trouble. Most folks came to belief because they heard the word of God (Romans 10:17) not because they say a miraculous deed performed.

Second, Paul said during his time they "prophesied in part." So you see, even the miraculous deeds of the first century were not perfect, were they? There was something more needed.

What was needed was a completion and collection of God's inspired word to man. Once this came, there was no need for any partial prophesying.

So in short, the gifts were needed in the first century to confirm that the word being spoken was from God, because prophecy was only in part. Now that it is complete, it is no longer needed.

The complete word of God is far more powerful than partial prophecy. That's why it is not needed today to convince a Muslim.

And the main argument against what you are suggesting is the fact that if these gifts were available today, we would have mass conversions when the miracles are witnessed. However, we do not see this.

If God wanted this, it would happen. But He's entrusted the gospel to us "earthen vessels."

[godsgirl]

You know... I would rather think that the Church started back then, rather than a division, based upon a denomination, of the body of Christ starting on day one.

Except I don't think the early church denied (like most denoms. do today) the baptism in the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues as evidence-that's why I said the Pentecostal church started then.

[VerticalReality]

Well, to begin with, if the Bible is not enough to bring about belief, then we are in trouble. Most folks came to belief because they heard the word of God (Romans 10:17) not because they say a miraculous deed performed.

Second, Paul said during his time they "prophesied in part." So you see, even the miraculous deeds of the first century were not perfect, were they? There was something more needed.

What was needed was a completion and collection of God's inspired word to man. Once this came, there was no need for any partial prophesying.

So in short, the gifts were needed in the first century to confirm that the word being spoken was from God, because prophecy was only in part. Now that it is complete, it is no longer needed.

The complete word of God is far more powerful than partial prophecy. That's why it is not needed today to convince a Muslim.

And the main argument against what you are suggesting is the fact that if these gifts were available today, we would have mass conversions when the miracles are witnessed. However, we do not see this.

If God wanted this, it would happen. But He's entrusted the gospel to us "earthen vessels."

I see you believe that the bible is the "that which is perfect" spoken of in 1 Corinthians 13 . . .

What do you make of this comment by Paul?

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

What do you think it is here that Paul is saying he will know? Do you believe this is the completed bible?

[obeytheword]

On the contrary, I believe the Bible does teach that these gifts have passed away. Perhaps we could study that together, in a more suitable format (not in this thread).

I'm not in this thread to discourage you, or challenge everything you think and feel. Just throwing out some food for thought.

I've been interested in this topic lately. One book I ordered recently is this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310201551

Maybe I'll learn something from reading this book that I can share.

As for your friend's story, I would have to have a lot more information before I could believe such a thing. How old was he? What was the person's name who received this miracle? Who was the person laying hands on him to do the healing? Names, addresses, phone numbers, etc.

Do you have these sorts of information? I would love to see some more information on what you are claiming.

As to my friends story, he has been eye-witness to several divine healings. I doubt he has any of that info - I was not using it as proof in and of itself - but if your best friend could say the same, would it affect your beliefs?

Be Blessed!

[godsgirl]

Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever.

that should settle it.

[ProjectPeter]

Sorry I've been away so long from this thread. Lots going on on the ground.

Anyway, I've been thinking. Many in this thread mention that speaking in tongues is a gift and that it is still given by God today.

Do any who believe that believe that the gift of healing is still given today? Are people miraculously healed at the hand of men today?

Sure... although "at the hand of men" is pretty loaded because it's not man doing it... tis the Spirit empowering the gift in the man.

[ProjectPeter]

In the first century people were raised from the dead and healed of handicaps they had since birth. Any documentation of this that I can review? Does it always only happen in "third world countries" where it would be impossible to verify?

The reason I ask is because the gift of speaking in tongues and the gift of healing, etc., seem to be connected. If one is available today, ALL should be. Do you agree?

There is evidence out there of healings and the like taking place. But if you don't believe it happens then you're not going to likely believe the evidence given. I've had many a folk ask for such as that and even introduced a couple of folks to a man that was blind from birth and was healed in such a way when he was in his 30's. Then I listened as they explained it away no matter the evidence... why? They don't believe it.

[ProjectPeter]

On the contrary, I believe the Bible does teach that these gifts have passed away. Perhaps we could study that together, in a more suitable format (not in this thread).

I'm not in this thread to discourage you, or challenge everything you think and feel. Just throwing out some food for thought.

I've been interested in this topic lately. One book I ordered recently is this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0310201551

Maybe I'll learn something from reading this book that I can share.

As for your friend's story, I would have to have a lot more information before I could believe such a thing. How old was he? What was the person's name who received this miracle? Who was the person laying hands on him to do the healing? Names, addresses, phone numbers, etc.

Do you have these sorts of information? I would love to see some more information on what you are claiming.

And you just proved my last post! If one doesn't believe then the telephone numbers and addresses won't help because then you'll want to see CatScan results and have ten doctors agree it was a divine healing etc. It would be a never ending list of demands and you'd still draw the conclusion you have already concluded.

It is funny to me how so many folks say "I've never seen it" but then they have spent most of their life in a church that doesn't believe it nor do they practice it and if you don't believe it or practice it then it's a given... you ain't going to see it.