Once saved always saved....

[Buck shot]

You've got to be kidding right? I have said that throughout this thread in many post that I have made. I know you have seen it in these many post as well and just because I may not have made that statement in one little specific post.... RbG... that has been my theme throughout all of the post I have made. So how about a little respect for that at least eh?

He really has RbG.
Faith, Just not in actuality

[ProjectPeter]

Yes we do think a lot alike. Many of the people on here are very well rooted in what they believe. Enjoy discussing issues with them, even if we don't agree on everything. I'd much rather talk about the Word of God than everything else in the world.

And that we totally agree on.

[2 Peter 2:20]

No, Ken you see it that way but we are reading the same Bible and do not understand the "whole" the same.

We are sons of God through faith in Jesus Christ NOW.

IF (just for you Sean) some are blotted out then they are no longer sons and I don't think they will be given another chance to return. This is why I can't join ya'll NOSAS camps. Unless I'm wrong, ya'll believe that someone can lose their salvation multiple times.

So I end up setting on your proverbial fence like a turkey.

Gobble...Gobble

Thanks for the IF! You just need to practice your WHAT and you will have it.

[2 Peter 2:20]

And that we totally agree on.

That they are a lot alike or discussing God's word???

[Buck shot]

Again... man made that up one day. It ain't in the Bible.

Read the parable of the unforgiving servant.

Matthew 18:21 ¶Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
23 "For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a certain king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves.
24 "And when he had begun to settle them, there was brought to him one who owed him ten thousand talents.
25 "But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.
26 "The slave therefore falling down, prostrated himself before him, saying, `Have patience with me, and I will repay you everything.´
27 "And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
28 "But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, `Pay back what you owe.´
29 "So his fellow slave fell down and began to entreat him, saying, `Have patience with me and I will repay you.´
30 "He was unwilling however, but went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.
31 "So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
32 "Then summoning him, his lord said to him, `You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you entreated me.
33 `Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, even as I had mercy on you?´
34 "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
35 "So shall My heavenly Father also do to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."

Who does the king in this parable represent?

God

Was the servant forgiven a monster debt that he couldn't pay?

He did not have the means, correct

Did the servant continue in the kindness of the king?

No

Did the king call the servant back before him and REVOKE the mercy that was shown?

Yes

Was the last judgment on him worse than the first judgment on him?

Yes

Did Jesus in fact tell the disciples... God will do the same to you if you don't forgive your brother from the heart?

Yes

Now one for you, Ken.

Did the King give him the chance to be forgiven again?

[Buck shot]

Cool... then tell them to stop sinning and watch the reaction.

Okay ya'll STOP SINNING!

[ProjectPeter]

I AM a son of God. He adopted me and one day I will recieve what He has promised. That is faith. Not a weak faith but a strong faith like a rock! Faith is evidence of things unseen. I know you understand what evidence is. There is nothing to question in evidence. That is why evidence is used to prove things.

Do you think Almighty God could not cast you out of Glory? Even after we finish this fleshly course we will still live by faith that He won't. Faith will not end either but, I know Love is the greatest because without Love their would not be true mercy.

Huh? If you are there then why would you need faith in an incorruptible body? It's incorruptible and there will be no need for faith. To think one still needs faith once entered into eternity... that just doesn't make much sense to me.

As to faithing being the evidence of things not seen... again... that's right. One with faith... need not see the physical evidence. Chapter 11 of Hebrews makes that point very clear with the many examples such as Abraham who while only having the one son from Sarah... died believing that he would have descendants that numbered the stars.

[2 Peter 2:20]

Okay ya'll STOP SINNING!

That's holiness...No body wants to do that!! It's too hard...easier to say well it's going to happen so why fight it. God can keep me in His hand, never lose me, controls me, guides me, keeps me on the narrow and all along my salvation is locked up tighter than Dick's hatband. Yet, He can't keep me from sinning. It sounds like there are other factors involved!

[jshears]

Huh? If you are there then why would you need faith in an incorruptible body? It's incorruptible and there will be no need for faith. To think one still needs faith once entered into eternity... that just doesn't make much sense to me.

As to faithing being the evidence of things not seen... again... that's right. One with faith... need not see the physical evidence. Chapter 11 of Hebrews makes that point very clear with the many examples such as Abraham who while only having the one son from Sarah... died believing that he would have descendants that numbered the stars.

So you think you'll be secure once you get to eternity? No chance of losing salvation after that?

[2 Peter 2:20]

So you think you'll be secure once you get to eternity? No chance of losing salvation after that?

Sure, no chance since the only way to lose it would be through sin and sin will not enter in.

[ProjectPeter]

I don't understand why the cheap shots?
How is this suppose to be, "exactly what I am talking about"

The discussion was about a person who truly believes, being able or not being able, to stop believing. Why are you now trying to change this into 'greasy grace'?

It wasn't a cheap shot at all. It was a very good example of that very thing. You said they can believe and still deny Christ. That is greasy grace at it's finest and it totally defies Scripture.

[ProjectPeter]

"I NEVER knew YOU" This doesn't sound like someone who lost their salvation.

Do you believe that God actually does forget your sin and it is counted as far as the east is from the west or cast our sins in the sea... all speaking of God forgetting those sins? Do you think God is going to forget those sins when you are forgiven those sins and yet He is going to bring them all up to you on judgment day even after forgetting them? I'm sure you don't... neither do I.

But keep in mind that passage in Ezekiel we've discussed a bit in here.


Ezekiel 18:20 "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.
21 ¶"But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
22 "All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live.
23 "Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?
24 ¶"But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.

The concept of God's righteous forgiveness allows Him to forget your iniquity. Also... God's righteous wrath allows God to not remember your righteousness as well if you turn from that righteousness and back to sin.

[jshears]

Sure, no chance since the only way to lose it would be through sin and sin will not enter in.

Are you saved now? What are you saved from?

[Buck shot]

Isn't that EXACTLY what it says? Then later doesn't it say that we in actuality are adopted at the redemption of our bodies?

No, that is how you understand it though. You put all you understand into some of the verses. Look at all of them. Let's do it again:


Rom8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
We are after the things of the Spirit now
6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
We have died to sin and now live
11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
The Spirit is already in us
12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
We would not be deptors if it has not happened yet
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
You are actually living when you die to sin
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
When you are lead by God you are His son
15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Remeber v9, we are supposed to be living in the spirit now
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
His Spirit is our spirit's witness
17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
We cannot wait to see God's plan for us completed.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
We once lived for self but now have hope because of what He has done
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
We can be delivered from the bondage of sin to the glorious liberty of God
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
We do not have to carry the burden of sin any longer. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
(they) Speaking of the ones that have not realized yet.
We have the firstfruits of the Spirit now in actuality, we only need to wait for the completion of the adoption process.

24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
A sure hope that it is going to happen 25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
We actually know that it is coming so we wait patiently for the fulfillment

[jshears]

Do you believe that God actually does forget your sin and it is counted as far as the east is from the west or cast our sins in the sea... all speaking of God forgetting those sins? Do you think God is going to forget those sins when you are forgiven those sins and yet He is going to bring them all up to you on judgment day even after forgetting them? I'm sure you don't... neither do I.

But keep in mind that passage in Ezekiel we've discussed a bit in here.


Ezekiel 18:20 "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.
21 ¶"But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
22 "All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live.
23 "Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?
24 ¶"But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.

The concept of God's righteous forgiveness allows Him to forget your iniquity. Also... God's righteous wrath allows God to not remember your righteousness as well if you turn from that righteousness and back to sin.

Wow --that was a real stretch, Jesus didn't say that though. He said "I NEVER knew you."