Once saved always saved....

[ProjectPeter]

Okay good, this is where I could not agree because you kept putting the actual part on. We both agree we have life and will not lose life unless we somehow lose faith, right?


Just for a help I found the earlier posts below.


From Myrton: That's what I am actually trying to get across.

Okay I guess. Not sure now what the point is but I'm getting old... it happens.

[ProjectPeter]

How is someone saved then?

Luck of the draw man... luck of the draw.

[Buck shot]

Okay I guess. Not sure now what the point is but I'm getting old... it happens.

We both agree we have life and will not lose life unless we somehow lose faith, right?

The point that I have been trying to lead to for a lllloooooonnnnnggggggg time is that some are teaching that you can lose your salvation and then get it back.
I have brought this up over and over but knowone seems to want to address it.

Does your NOSAS belief allow for someone to lose their salvation and then regain it?

[ProjectPeter]

Are we then still son's of the devil, right until the end of our endurment, or we bastards until we have the full adoption?

When do we get to give thanks for His unspeakable free gift?

We are sons by Grace through faith, and this is a free gift.

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Yes... we are all that. That too is what you guys have seen me write over and over again for 20,000 plus post on this forum. Let me find that emoticon thingy again here....

[jshears]

Luck of the draw man... luck of the draw.

Could you give a clearer answer?

[ProjectPeter]

You do get a little sarcastic at times
I really wondered what you believed for a while until I read enough of your posts.

Sometimes even a lot. But then look at some of the questions asked. The new guy... some slack perhaps. These that have been around and ask me questions like "are we still sons of the devil until we die" type questions.... that's deserving of at least a little sarcasm.

[Partaker of Christ]

The argument that you are trying to make is the same on the OSAS side. How do you know that you are not one of the FALSE being led into destruction and I'm not saying that you are but how do you know? At this time in your life you might be the one of the FALSE that are enduring for a while ie. the rocks and the thorns but you wouldn't know that you are. You wouldn't know this until the end.

That's the problem with those that use FALSE and TRUE. The FALSE don't know they are FALSE but the TRUE act like they know they are TRUE and the TRUE are the only ones that can tell the FALSE they are FALSE. That's funny when you think about it!

Huh?
Then we might say that Christainity could be false.

The difference is that OSAS put their full trust in Christ. NOSAS put their trust in Christ and their own self enduring.

Jesus said He will loose none, that the Father give Him.
Do you say He was false?

[ProjectPeter]

We both agree we have life and will not lose life unless we somehow lose faith, right?

The point that I have been trying to lead to for a lllloooooonnnnnggggggg time is that some are teaching that you can lose your salvation and then get it back.
I have brought this up over and over but knowone seems to want to address it.

Does your NOSAS belief allow for someone to lose their salvation and then regain it?

Buck Shot... we've explained Hebrews 6 many a time. That is the passage that you ultimately point to there along with the knowledge that folks can in fact be blotted out of the book of life. But keep in mind that this passage isn't speaking of just anyone. There are people that fall away early in their walk for a variety of reasons. THe Hebrews passage isn't speaking of those folks but is speaking of folks that are mature and who should be teachers by now... yet they were sliding back. The warning to them was hey... be careful because one can slide back too far. No... that person is apostate and they cannot be saved again... that is exactly what the word reprobate means and I believe that there are folks that will never know the Lord who CAN never know Him because God gives them over to a reprobate mind.

All that being said... a sin doesn't "unsave" a man. I don't believe for a second that David ever lost his "salvation"... and he did some heavy duty sinning. That being said... had he hardened his heart and ignored the warning from the prophet... I believe he too could have lost the Spirit of God just as Saul did.

But the answer is yes... someone can turn from God and return back. Remember the prodigal son was alive and left... dead while gone... alive again. Now... I asked folks this before and no one answered back. If you can show me anywhere in Scripture that alludes to the idea that a spiritually dead man is still a saved man... then you're on to something. If you can't... then I can't buy it.

Folks tend (on the NOSAS side I'll pick on) to forget that even when a brother is caught up in sinfulness... that doesn't automatically negate his being saved. If the brother refuses correction and tells everyone, God included" to pretty much pound sand because they right like what they are doing... that person is on a gnarly road. But nevertheless... God is times more patient than any one of us and patient even when we're living like a moron.

[2 Peter 2:20]

Luck of the draw man... luck of the draw.

When is the next drawing? I want to make sure I'm there. You have to be present to win!

[ProjectPeter]

Could you give a clearer answer?

No... not likely. I don't mind discussing stuff with folk as long as the conversation can stay intellectually honest at least. Disagreement is fine. Got no problem at all with that. You are free to take a gander at this thread where I have tons of post already. Take a look at the blog... take a look at other threads (I've been and am in many)... then we can talk if you want to do so seriously.

[ProjectPeter]

When is the next drawing? I want to make sure I'm there. You have to be present to win!

That being present is vital.

[ProjectPeter]

Goodness guys... we are nearing the stopping point on this thread by the way. I am going to have to close it before long because once threads get this big it can cause the server to do some really freaky stuff... or whatever the technical problem is. That is what the geeks take care of!

So... let's wind this down and we can split some of these other discussion off into other threads.

jsheers... if you want to start a thread on what it takes to be saved.... I would be happy to post in it. Probably tomorrow though... getting late on my end.

[jshears]

Goodness guys... we are nearing the stopping point on this thread by the way. I am going to have to close it before long because once threads get this big it can cause the server to do some really freaky stuff... or whatever the technical problem is. That is what the geeks take care of!

So... let's wind this down and we can split some of these other discussion off into other threads.

jsheers... if you want to start a thread on what it takes to be saved.... I would be happy to post in it. Probably tomorrow though... getting late on my end.

it's jshears <--- do I have to correct you on every point? lol... that new thread thing is a good idea, maybe tomorrow

[Partaker of Christ]

WOW, 6 pages in one day!

I could be wrong but the folks that I have read from here on the OSAS side are not saying sinning is good at all. They are not saying it is okay or that God allows it to continue.

Just wanted to point that out

I also have not seen this, but somehow, because we shout 'liberty', we get accused of shouting 'licence'

Do we have licence? God forbid.

The difference I believe is that most OSAS'ers say our Father will rightly chastise His much loved children when they miss the mark. NOSAS'ers (or some) seem to think this chastisment is utter destruction.

[Buck shot]

Buck Shot... we've explained Hebrews 6 many a time. That is the passage that you ultimately point to there along with the knowledge that folks can in fact be blotted out of the book of life. But keep in mind that this passage isn't speaking of just anyone. There are people that fall away early in their walk for a variety of reasons. THe Hebrews passage isn't speaking of those folks but is speaking of folks that are mature and who should be teachers by now... yet they were sliding back. The warning to them was hey... be careful because one can slide back too far. No... that person is apostate and they cannot be saved again... that is exactly what the word reprobate means and I believe that there are folks that will never know the Lord who CAN never know Him because God gives them over to a reprobate mind.

All that being said... a sin doesn't "unsave" a man. I don't believe for a second that David ever lost his "salvation"... and he did some heavy duty sinning. That being said... had he hardened his heart and ignored the warning from the prophet... I believe he too could have lost the Spirit of God just as Saul did.

But the answer is yes... someone can turn from God and return back. Remember the prodigal son was alive and left... dead while gone... alive again. Now... I asked folks this before and no one answered back. If you can show me anywhere in Scripture that alludes to the idea that a spiritually dead man is still a saved man... then you're on to something. If you can't... then I can't buy it.

Folks tend (on the NOSAS side I'll pick on) to forget that even when a brother is caught up in sinfulness... that doesn't automatically negate his being saved. If the brother refuses correction and tells everyone, God included" to pretty much pound sand because they right like what they are doing... that person is on a gnarly road. But nevertheless... God is times more patient than any one of us and patient even when we're living like a moron.

Thanks for the answer.


I do not look at the prodical son parable the same as you. We know he was dead to his dad but I understand him to still be a son. i do understand why you see it your way though. i tend to lean more to the fruit tree that continues to not bare good fruit even after the Master Gardener has worked around it. Folks cannot be both good and bad trees. We are either one or the other. Like sheep and goats, we cannot be both. I know you agree with this too.

I cannot agree that we could ever be born again a third time. You say that is not what you are saying but that is what you are saying if you lose your salvation then you are in a worse place than you were before. So how can you just repent and be back where you were?

So the ball ends up in God's court where it should be. We cannot say someone has lost their salvation. Only God knows.