Once saved always saved....

**bbrandy2002** · Feb 25th 2008, 02:40 AM

I'm a believer that once your saved your always saved, however last night I was reading over Revelation. Maybe this is a silly question but its says in the letters to the(Rev.3) Laodicean church that lukewarm christians will be vomited from his mouth. I have heard this saying many times, I'm curious though does this mean that a lukewarm christian will not get into heaven, and in essence have lost thier salvation? I've been a christian for 20 years, I'm still learning but this just struck me. Can someone help me with this question. Thanks.

***Athanasius*** · Feb 25th 2008, 03:04 AM

Oh boy.
Way to ask a question

People will most likely say that those lukewarm Christians, weren't really Christians to begin with, and that's why they would be spit out. With that, I'm not a believer in once saved, always saved.

**Slug1** · Feb 25th 2008, 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by Xel'Naga

Oh boy.
Way to ask a question

People will most likely say that those lukewarm Christians, weren't really Christians to begin with, and that's why they would be spit out. With that, I'm not a believer in once saved, always saved.

Yeah, I agree but the Bible says lukewarm "Christians", not lukewarm Christian want-a-be's.

The Scripture is clear and leaves no guess work. These Christian's don't seem to make it.

In the Bible a "Christian" is one who is saved, if the scripture was referring to someone who wasn't a Christian then they would not be referred to as Christian.

***Athanasius*** · Feb 25th 2008, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by Slug1

Yeah, I agree but the Bible says lukewarm "Christians", not lukewarm Christian want-a-be's.

The Scripture is clear and leaves no guess work. These Christian's don't seem to make it.

In the Bible a "Christian" is one who is saved, if the scripture was referring to someone who wasn't a Christian then they would not be referred to as Christian.

Well, that's what I get for trying to guess OSAS answers ;(

**cnw** · Feb 25th 2008, 03:32 AM

Xel, that is what I was eluding to in an earlier thread we were on. I personally believe that carnal means you have the head knowledge of Christianity but not the heart knowledge. Have you ever read Hebrews? It is a really good book but very heavy. I believe once you are saved you are always saved, but I believe that so very few people are saved in the first place.

**Slug1** · Feb 25th 2008, 03:41 AM

Originally Posted by cnw

I believe once you are saved you are always saved, but I believe that so very few people are saved in the first place.

God knows who is saved and who is not saved and I would not expect the Word of God to call one who is not saved, a Christian.

So to be referred to as a Christian must mean, one who is saved.

The scripture in the OP is referring to Christians who seem to be rejected, IOW's salvation wasn't secure.

***9Marksfan*** · Feb 25th 2008, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Slug1

God knows who is saved and who is not saved and I would not expect the Word of God to call one who is not saved, a Christian.

So to be referred to as a Christian must mean, one who is saved.

The scripture in the OP is referring to Christians who seem to be rejected, IOW's salvation wasn't secure.

No - the church at Laodicea was the same as all churches - a mixed bag of those who were truly saved and those who weren't - Jesus speaks of "some of you" who have been faithful and "some" who are not - in Laodicea, it seems that there was hardly any real Christians - maybe none - but there was still time to repent - and Jesus urged them to do so.

***Athanasius*** · Feb 25th 2008, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by cnw

Xel, that is what I was eluding to in an earlier thread we were on. I personally believe that carnal means you have the head knowledge of Christianity but not the heart knowledge. Have you ever read Hebrews? It is a really good book but very heavy. I believe once you are saved you are always saved, but I believe that so very few people are saved in the first place.

I just finished reading Hebrews (again

).
But, I don't know what thread you're referring too, sorry.

As for OSAS doctrine. It's very easy to say that those who go against the faith were never saved to begin with. Thus, once saved always saved is true, because true™ believers won't fall away, reject Christ, etc.

The problem is. . . That we aren't able to make those value judgments; only God knows the state of a persons heart. I think it very well may be that at one point a person was truly™ saved, and at another, turned away to deny Christ before men. The problem with such a position (that those who lose their salvation weren't saved to begin with, and never really 'had salvation') is that the scripture in question explicitly calls these people Christian. I believe it relates quite well to certain fig trees. . . .

***9Marksfan*** · Feb 25th 2008, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Xel'Naga

The problem is. . . That we aren't able to make those value judgments; only God knows the state of a persons heart.

Why is that a problem? It's so that we're all kept on our toes! Is that a problem?!?

I think it very well may be that at one point a person was truly™ saved, and at another, turned away to deny Christ before men.

I don't believe there are any such passages, properly understood.

The problem with such a position (that those who lose their salvation weren't saved to begin with, and never really 'had salvation') is that the scripture in question explicitly calls these people Christian.

Chapter and verse, please. What it does is treat the visible churches as genuine - giving everyone the benefit of the doubt - but allows for the fact that they will turn out to be a "mixed bag".

I believe it relates quite well to certain fig trees. . . .

The fig tree is Israel, which was also a mixed bag, of course! There is nothing new under the sun......

***markdrums*** · Feb 25th 2008, 10:54 PM

Here's what Jesus said in John 10:27-29

27My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.

***threebigrocks*** · Feb 26th 2008, 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by markdrums

Here's what Jesus said in John 10:27-29

27My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.

thing is - those sheep follow the Shepherd. They count and depend on Him for everything - food, shearing, shelter. Look at how sheep will follow.

The sheep are not sitting idlely by, they are in the process of, actively, following the Shepherd.

**NavyFirefighter** · Feb 26th 2008, 04:32 PM

I used to believe that once saved always saved was the case. I don't believe that anymore. I also don't believe that you will go to hell for one sin. Once a person has accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, they are saved, unless they walk away from God and go to a life os sin and debotery. I don't think that you can define a point of saved or not on that downhill slide. As for the letters to the Laodicean church (Rev.3), here is a link to the best explanation of that I have ever heard.

http://www.toledocalvary.org/sermons...sermonid=17345

The beliefe that once saved always saved is making a provision for the flesh.

ChristianKnight · Mar 5th 2008, 05:01 PM

I believe when your saved, you should not have to be saved again, but I am not against being saved again if the first time was a false saving.

***Roelof*** · Mar 18th 2008, 12:54 PM

Jacobus Arminius believed that:
Salvation can be lost, as continued salvation is conditional upon continued faith

***9Marksfan*** · Mar 18th 2008, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Roelof

Jacobus Arminius believed that:
Salvation can be lost, as continued salvation is conditional upon continued faith

If salvation is conditional upon anything in us, it is no longer salvation by grace but rather salvation by the works (efforts) of man. And Paul calls that another gospel.