Once saved always saved....

[alethos]

Quote: from alethos
If people get into a right relationship with God and focus on living for the Lord, and walking in the Spirit, then they don't need the comfort of an "eternal security" doctrine.

Reply from 9Marksfan
Ah, because they can look to themselves and see how well they're doing! Nice one! No need to rely on God's faithfulness, keeping power and sustaining grace!

The way I see it is that when I desire to live FOR THE LORD, my focus is on the Lord. On how I can please Him

When you think of YOUR SECURITY, You are focused on SELF, on whats in it for you.

[valleybldr]

What about those Christians who doubt whether they will make it to the end? Who question whether their faith is genuine? Who may feel they've blown it by some act of disobedience? Who are sorely buffeted by the Enemy? Where is their hope to be found?

I would wonder about a faith riddled with insecurity, hopelessness and shame. The Word of God isn't magic but it is life giving. todd

[9Marksfan]

I would wonder about a faith riddled with insecurity, hopelessness and shame. The Word of God isn't magic but it is life giving. todd

Agreed, but I would wonder about the reality of someone's faith that never has periods of doubt, uncertainty, guilt and spiritual depression - this was the norm for the saints in the bible - and down through the centuries......

[9Marksfan]

The way I see it is that when I desire to live FOR THE LORD, my focus is on the Lord. On how I can please Him

And that of course is the ideal - and are you telling me that that desire is there, 100%, 24:7, 365 days a year, every single year?

When you think of YOUR SECURITY, You are focused on SELF, on whats in it for you.

No - I don't know what kind of superspiritual relationship you have with God, my friend, but if it never has spells of doubt, uncertainty, guilt and spiritual depression, then it's not the faith I have - nor I believe what most if not all of the saints in the bible had - and believers down through the centuries.....

[ProjectPeter]

Agreed, but I would wonder about the reality of someone's faith that never has periods of doubt, uncertainty, guilt and spiritual depression - this was the norm for the saints in the bible - and down through the centuries......

But then one could also describe that as working out their own salvation with fear and trembling. We might call it doubt, uncertainty, guilt or whatever... but that doesn't at all have to be those things even though that may be what it looks like from the outside looking in.

[alethos]

No - I don't know what kind of superspiritual relationship you have with God, my friend, but if it never has spells of doubt, uncertainty, guilt and spiritual depression, then it's not the faith I have - nor I believe what most if not all of the saints in the bible had - and believers down through the centuries.....

If OSAS is everything your side says it is, and there isn't a chance that you could loose your salvation, then why the doubt and fear on the part of those who cling to the OSAS teaching? If this fire insurance policy is everything your side claims it is, then fear and doubt should be absent.

[Tabernacle]

Kinda my own personal view, but in 23 yrs of marriage I never wake up wondering if I'm still married.....not once have I turned to my wife and said "honey....are you sure we're really married?"

Salvation being far deeper and richer, if my marriage has such plain assurance how can salvation not have far more?

Yeah....marriage is bumpy, at least it was early on, but never any doubts about whether I got married or not.....nor whether I was still married.

2nd thought - my children, look like me (lots of preaching there), they're clearly distinguishable as my own. They know I am their father and I know they are my children. Now if someone asked one of them - is that your father and my child said "well.....uhh.....ya know I used to think so but now I have doubts.....". I don't know about ya'll, but I'd have a serious little chat with my child, get it settled. It is, in my opinion, an insult to our Father.....

- The matter isn't 'can you lose your salvation' (which comes with terms like, SEALED, KEPT, ETERNAL, etc..... but rather the issue is, again in my opinion, DO YOU KNOW for sure you got saved?

I think a lot of people aren't really saved at all and so for them, the doctrine of eternal security is a very dangerous thing. We ought be very careful about how and when we lead someone to the cross, lest we lead them into a false profession that may plague them for the rest of their life.

[9Marksfan]

But then one could also describe that as working out their own salvation with fear and trembling. We might call it doubt, uncertainty, guilt or whatever... but that doesn't at all have to be those things even though that may be what it looks like from the outside looking in.

Same destination, different door again, Ken! The thing is they HAPPEN - a life that does not have these on OCCASION does not appear to me to be consistent with biblical Christianity......

[9Marksfan]

If OSAS is everything your side says it is, and there isn't a chance that you could loose your salvation, then why the doubt and fear on the part of those who cling to the OSAS teaching? If this fire insurance policy is everything your side claims it is, then fear and doubt should be absent.

But remember, I'm not your typical OSASer! I'm POTS! The doubt and fear are there because (a) we are still in the flesh; (b) Satan loves to get us in that place; and (c) God loves to use these experiences to bring about growth and a greater dependence on Him!

[9Marksfan]

Kinda my own personal view, but in 23 yrs of marriage I never wake up wondering if I'm still married.....not once have I turned to my wife and said "honey....are you sure we're really married?"

Salvation being far deeper and richer, if my marriage has such plain assurance how can salvation not have far more?

Yeah....marriage is bumpy, at least it was early on, but never any doubts about whether I got married or not.....nor whether I was still married.

2nd thought - my children, look like me (lots of preaching there), they're clearly distinguishable as my own. They know I am their father and I know they are my children. Now if someone asked one of them - is that your father and my child said "well.....uhh.....ya know I used to think so but now I have doubts.....". I don't know about ya'll, but I'd have a serious little chat with my child, get it settled. It is, in my opinion, an insult to our Father.....

- The matter isn't 'can you lose your salvation' (which comes with terms like, SEALED, KEPT, ETERNAL, etc..... but rather the issue is, again in my opinion, DO YOU KNOW for sure you got saved?

I think a lot of people aren't really saved at all and so for them, the doctrine of eternal security is a very dangerous thing. We ought be very careful about how and when we lead someone to the cross, lest we lead them into a false profession that may plague them for the rest of their life.

Amen - good points. It's all about KNOWING whether you are truly saved or not - or just deluded......

[ProjectPeter]

Same destination, different door again, Ken! The thing is they HAPPEN - a life that does not have these on OCCASION does not appear to me to be consistent with biblical Christianity......

I agree there and did agree with what you said. My point wasn't that I disagree at all but that I see this as simply part of working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Sin's a bad thing and I've never known someone be so fearful of whether or not they were saved who also wasn't doing something they knew they ought not do.

[ProjectPeter]

Kinda my own personal view, but in 23 yrs of marriage I never wake up wondering if I'm still married.....not once have I turned to my wife and said "honey....are you sure we're really married?"

Salvation being far deeper and richer, if my marriage has such plain assurance how can salvation not have far more?

Yeah....marriage is bumpy, at least it was early on, but never any doubts about whether I got married or not.....nor whether I was still married.

2nd thought - my children, look like me (lots of preaching there), they're clearly distinguishable as my own. They know I am their father and I know they are my children. Now if someone asked one of them - is that your father and my child said "well.....uhh.....ya know I used to think so but now I have doubts.....". I don't know about ya'll, but I'd have a serious little chat with my child, get it settled. It is, in my opinion, an insult to our Father.....

- The matter isn't 'can you lose your salvation' (which comes with terms like, SEALED, KEPT, ETERNAL, etc..... but rather the issue is, again in my opinion, DO YOU KNOW for sure you got saved?

I think a lot of people aren't really saved at all and so for them, the doctrine of eternal security is a very dangerous thing. We ought be very careful about how and when we lead someone to the cross, lest we lead them into a false profession that may plague them for the rest of their life.

But then at any time... you could get up out of that bed. Walk out the door... and never return. You didn't "lose" your marriage... but you certainly walked away from it. Could you afterwards say... "I was never married in the first place?" I would think not eh?

[Redeemed by Grace]

Kinda my own personal view, but in 23 yrs of marriage I never wake up wondering if I'm still married.....not once have I turned to my wife and said "honey....are you sure we're really married?"

Salvation being far deeper and richer, if my marriage has such plain assurance how can salvation not have far more?

Yeah....marriage is bumpy, at least it was early on, but never any doubts about whether I got married or not.....nor whether I was still married.

2nd thought - my children, look like me (lots of preaching there), they're clearly distinguishable as my own. They know I am their father and I know they are my children. Now if someone asked one of them - is that your father and my child said "well.....uhh.....ya know I used to think so but now I have doubts.....". I don't know about ya'll, but I'd have a serious little chat with my child, get it settled. It is, in my opinion, an insult to our Father.....

- The matter isn't 'can you lose your salvation' (which comes with terms like, SEALED, KEPT, ETERNAL, etc..... but rather the issue is, again in my opinion, DO YOU KNOW for sure you got saved?

I think a lot of people aren't really saved at all and so for them, the doctrine of eternal security is a very dangerous thing. We ought be very careful about how and when we lead someone to the cross, lest we lead them into a false profession that may plague them for the rest of their life.

Bulls eye!

OSAS is not insurance nor a licensee to sin…. It’s a proclamation from God about His choice of the elect…

The question is always about self…. Are we saved? Then the next question is from what? And then 'How do we know?'.... Then as God reveals we walk in the faith He gives us each day.


One has to remember that salvation is for God, of God, by God, in God, through God and God alone, and that those who believe, truly believe, will see God as holy, righteous, provident, sovereign, etc… and God changes the heart of stone to a heart of flesh… and that He works in and through man, for His glory….


Good post and being relatively new here, welcome! Buckle down and enjoy the ride!

[9Marksfan]

I agree there and did agree with what you said. My point wasn't that I disagree at all but that I see this as simply part of working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Sin's a bad thing and I've never known someone be so fearful of whether or not they were saved who also wasn't doing something they knew they ought not do.

It's good to agree again!

[Redeemed by Grace]

It's good to agree again!

Agreement is good indeed!