Once saved always saved....

[Buck shot]

Well, you have to go back through miles of replies to find it! I'm not even sure the OP is still talking to us!

I laughed but is it funny?

[Buck shot]

I can recieve knowledge of news that Jesus died for me but if I don't believe it then I've turned away from it. If I recieve knowledge that Salvation is only through Christ and I reject it then I've never been saved.

I know what your saying and i would like to believe that God put all the warnings in because He would have to take one guys part out but i can't

[Buck shot]

Why does evidence take faith?

Yeah, what say ye, Ken? (this is the Ken guy)

[My heart's Desire]

I'm curious about people who willingly turn their backs on God, denounce Him as Lord and Savior, even after they may have been saved.

If God truly does give us free will, then isn't it our free will to reject our own salvation?

You hear stories of people turning away from God after something bad happens to them. Ted Turner was a Christian until his sister, I think it was, died. Now he claims a form of atheism, says he's going to party with his friends in Hell.

If he was saved as a small child, but has completely turned his back on God, is he still going to Heaven?

But then again, if OSAS is false, then what do the verses in Ephesians, 1:14 I think, mean when they say we are sealed to the day of redemption?

That's just it. We are not that person, We don't know all their lives,their thoughts or God's dealings with them. We cannot judge that they are saved or not unless they just come right out and say "I am not saved" or I am saved. There are many who are religious, think they are right with God because of their works. Many think God is love and so they are right with Him. There are many reasons and ways why people claim to be saved just as their are many who say they are Christian when we know they mean different things by that even.
Those who are really saved have been redeemed, are sealed. Do people who totally turn from the Lord's Salvation ever have it to begin with? I think the only ones who know is the person and God.

[My heart's Desire]

Book is plain – a true Christian can so sin and refuse to repent and be lost eternally. I think it is a rare occurrence but an occurrence nonetheless.

Is that sort of like one can trust God only as far as they can trust themselves? Like I have to trust God to save me from my sins because I can't save myself but yet I can keep myself saved?

[My heart's Desire]

I know what your saying and i would like to believe that God put all the warnings in because He would have to take one guys part out but i can't

I'm not real sure what you just said. sorry.

[Buck shot]

I'm not real sure what you just said. sorry.

I was refering to God's warning in Revelations when He said He would take away a person's part from the book of life for taking away words of His prophecy.

It would be nice to believe God would only have to do this to one person but as much taking away from Revelations I have seen in my lifetime, it is wishful thinking.

I think some of these believe they are saved. Probably even believe they understand God so well that they can change His word because they understand it better than those who translated it years ago. Jesus second biggest adversary was the high priest of that day. They thought they were "in like flint". Seems some things never change.

Pride creeps in and kills faith.

[Partaker of Christ]

And again... you take a very simple thing and try to force your reading into it. Ezekiel 18 by the way isn't talking salvation by the sword. It is talking about all souls are Gods... the soul that sins will die. The soul that is righteous will live.

Then tell us Ken, are the wages of sin death, or not?

Will any amount of good works, pay the wages of sin?

Can a man bring and offer his own sacrifices for sin, or does it have to be made by the High Priest?

How many religious people would repent of sin, but not trust in the death and resurection of Christ Jesus. Will their repentance save them?

[Partaker of Christ]

Hebrews 10:26 ¶For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

He was part of the blood covenant of Christ. So unless you want to try and make this into an unbeliever who somehow got sanctified without believing... then your theory there might work. As it stands... your theory keeps falling apart due to what is actually written in the text itself.

And also... I don't understand the common sense reasoning that would actually think that someone could fall from somewhere they have never been. The mindset that says they can forsake something that they have never had... the can stay steadfast on something they have never believed anyway... etc. To me... how does even common sense compute something that way?

Deut 7:6 For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Deut 14:2 For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Christ Jesus, was the Apostle to the Jews, who were the covenant people.

[Partaker of Christ]

I'm curious about people who willingly turn their backs on God, denounce Him as Lord and Savior, even after they may have been saved.

If God truly does give us free will, then isn't it our free will to reject our own salvation?

You hear stories of people turning away from God after something bad happens to them. Ted Turner was a Christian until his sister, I think it was, died. Now he claims a form of atheism, says he's going to party with his friends in Hell.

If he was saved as a small child, but has completely turned his back on God, is he still going to Heaven?

But then again, if OSAS is false, then what do the verses in Ephesians, 1:14 I think, mean when they say we are sealed to the day of redemption?

1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

We are also told that the wheat and the tares will 'grow together'.

They can look much alike. It is only when they are grown, that you can really tell them apart.

[Buck shot]

1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

We are also told that the wheat and the tares will 'grow together'.

They can look much alike. It is only when they are grown, that you can really tell them apart.

But were some of them?

[Partaker of Christ]

I was refering to God's warning in Revelations when He said He would take away a person's part from the book of life for taking away words of His prophecy.

It would be nice to believe God would only have to do this to one person but as much taking away from Revelations I have seen in my lifetime, it is wishful thinking.

I think some of these believe they are saved. Probably even believe they understand God so well that they can change His word because they understand it better than those who translated it years ago. Jesus second biggest adversary was the high priest of that day. They thought they were "in like flint". Seems some things never change.

Pride creeps in and kills faith.

Hi Buck Shot!

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Does this 'take away his part' [G3313; meros] mean, to remove his name out of 'the book of life'?

G3313
meros
From an obsolete but more primary form of μείρομαι meiromai (to get as a section or allotment); a division or share (literally or figuratively, in a wide application): - behalf, coast, course, craft, particular (+ -ly), part (+ -ly), piece, portion, respect, side, some sort (-what).

[Buck shot]

Hi Buck Shot!

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Does this 'take away his part' [G3313; meros] mean, to remove his name out of 'the book of life'?

G3313
meros
From an obsolete but more primary form of μείρομαι meiromai (to get as a section or allotment); a division or share (literally or figuratively, in a wide application): - behalf, coast, course, craft, particular (+ -ly), part (+ -ly), piece, portion, respect, side, some sort (-what).

Howdy Partaker of Christ,

9Marksfan brought up the same thing earlier in the thread. I wish I could play with words like that and feel okay with it. I really do. But "it is what it is".

Myrton's (that's me) view:
"his part"= his name, his piece of the Holy City, his portion of the Kingdom, his share of Glory, his inheritance, his crowns, his mansion, and even the memory of him.

It breaks my heart to even think about what is lost. Think how our Father must feel.

[9Marksfan]

I'm curious about people who willingly turn their backs on God, denounce Him as Lord and Savior, even after they may have been saved.

I think we're all agreed that is a tragic but all-too-real phenomenon.

If God truly does give us free will, then isn't it our free will to reject our own salvation?

But God does not allow our free will to be sovereign - it is always tainted with sin, so if he allowed us "complete" free will - no one would be saved!

You hear stories of people turning away from God after something bad happens to them. Ted Turner was a Christian until his sister, I think it was, died. Now he claims a form of atheism, says he's going to party with his friends in Hell.

The parable of the sower deals with that issue - Jesus says these people have no root = never saved - the testing of the bad experience comes and they turn their backs on God.

If he was saved as a small child, but has completely turned his back on God, is he still going to Heaven?

God alone knows his heart, but we have to question if he was truly saved as a child if that is what he grows up to be like - it is always possible that he will repent, but if he doesn't before he dies - I think the Scriptures are solemnly clear on the fate of those who live and die in sin.....

But then again, if OSAS is false, then what do the verses in Ephesians, 1:14 I think, mean when they say we are sealed to the day of redemption?

True believers ARE sealed unto the day of redemption - and they WILL persevere in the faith to the end (although they may well fall - badly - along the way - God will ensure that they are restored, like Peter was).

[Partaker of Christ]

Howdy Partaker of Christ,

9Marksfan brought up the same thing earlier in the thread. I wish I could play with words like that and feel okay with it. I really do. But "it is what it is".

Myrton's (that's me) view:
"his part"= his name, his piece of the Holy City, his portion of the Kingdom, his share of Glory, his inheritance, his crowns, his mansion, and even the memory of him.

It breaks my heart to even think about what is lost. Think how our Father must feel.

Howdy back at yer Myrton!!

Vic's (that's me) view
Isn't saying "his part" = his name, also a playing with words?
I think it is just trying to get a right understanding


If it is his name, then he will end up in the lack of fire and brimstone. Why not just say his name shall be removed, rather then his part?

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Why say, and out, and out, and out, because if it is his name that is out, then the rest ("out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book") surely does not matter.