Once saved always saved....

[jshears]

You don't have the inheritance yet. Nor the adoption which is exactly the inheritance because without it... you aren't a son of God. Again... that is EXACTLY what Paul is telling us in Romans 8. If you had it already... why do you need to hope? If you were already a son of God and you already were participating in eternal life... there is no need of faith. You don't need faith for something already there. That is also why Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13... NOW abideth faith, hope and love. There is going to be a time when there is no need for "faith" because we will have that prize. There will be no need for hope... we will have the inheritance and adoption as sons. That is why the greatest of all those things is love... because in the end... love will always be the one thing that never fades away because we will be in the very presence of love personified.

Why does John say (in 1 John) that we are the sons of God NOW, and that we have (present tense) eternal life NOW? He doesn't say it's something in the future we're waiting for --he says "NOW." Does John not know what he's saying, perhaps he's confused too.

[2 Peter 2:20]

Ipso facto, then by your statement, you won’t know that you are one of His sheep until you die and judged at the end?

2 Peter 3
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. 14So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

I wonder why Peter worded it this way?? Notice that it doesn't say that God has ALREADY made you spotless and blameless. If He did Peter wouldn't have needed to write verse 14 at all.

[ProjectPeter]

Why does John say (in 1 John) that we are the sons of God NOW, and that we have (present tense) eternal life NOW? He doesn't say it's something in the future we're waiting for --he says "NOW." Does John not know what he's saying, perhaps he's confused too.

He teaches the same thing Paul taught.

Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

If that faith doesn't endure to the end... you are in fact a son of the devil. Surely you can see that in the entire letter of 1 John?

[2 Peter 2:20]

Why does John say (in 1 John) that we are the sons of God NOW, and that we have (present tense) eternal life NOW? He doesn't say it's something in the future we're waiting for --he says "NOW." Does John not know what he's saying, perhaps he's confused too.

Will you and I die?

John 11
25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Normally most are quick to quote verse 26 but verse 25 goes with it. Even though he dies...yet shall he live.

[Redeemed by Grace]

Uh... if one didn't know then that is one that has no faith RbG. How many times must I say that for you guys to actually get it?

But that's not what you stated...

It isn't hard to discern at all. It is WHOSOEVER believes in Him and that believing is one that is present and active... ALWAYS. And fact as well... once a person has been saved (in actuality... once endured) then no one can snatch them out of the hand of Christ. Who is that sheep... the one that followed. Not for a day... week... month... a year... even 40 years. But the one that followed until the end be that a day, week, month, year, or 40... or more.

You are saying that it is "the one that followed [past tense] until the end [death then judgment time]..."

My question is, can you know that you are of His fold before you die?

[2 Peter 2:20]

But that's not what you stated...




You are saying that it is "the one that followed [past tense] until the end [death then judgment time]..."

My question is, can you know that you are of His fold before you die?

The argument that you are trying to make is the same on the OSAS side. How do you know that you are not one of the FALSE being led into destruction and I'm not saying that you are but how do you know? At this time in your life you might be the one of the FALSE that are enduring for a while ie. the rocks and the thorns but you wouldn't know that you are. You wouldn't know this until the end.

That's the problem with those that use FALSE and TRUE. The FALSE don't know they are FALSE but the TRUE act like they know they are TRUE and the TRUE are the only ones that can tell the FALSE they are FALSE. That's funny when you think about it!

[jshears]

He teaches the same thing Paul taught.

Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

If that faith doesn't endure to the end... you are in fact a son of the devil. Surely you can see that in the entire letter of 1 John?

Sure. My faith will endure to the end because I'm saved. Faith is a gift from God after all isn't it? I couldn't have enough faith to believe in the first place except God gives it to me? I think it's a lack of faith on your part to say that God can't keep the saved 'saved'. And also, you still haven't told me why John says we are the sons of God NOW. I have put my faith in Christ, therefore I'm a son of God correct? Therefore being a son of God, I have been adopted (or else I'm not a son), being adopted into God's family I have an inheritance. What if I stop believing?? Instead let me ask, Why would I stop believing?

[ProjectPeter]

But that's not what you stated...




You are saying that it is "the one that followed [past tense] until the end [death then judgment time]..."

My question is, can you know that you are of His fold before you die?

You've got to be kidding right? I have said that throughout this thread in many post that I have made. I know you have seen it in these many post as well and just because I may not have made that statement in one little specific post.... RbG... that has been my theme throughout all of the post I have made. So how about a little respect for that at least eh?

[ProjectPeter]

Sure. My faith will endure to the end because I'm saved. Faith is a gift from God after all isn't it? I couldn't have enough faith to believe in the first place except God gives it to me? I think it's a lack of faith on your part to say that God can't keep the saved 'saved'. And also, you still haven't told me why John says we are the sons of God NOW. I have put my faith in Christ, therefore I'm a son of God correct? Therefore being a son of God, I have been adopted (or else I'm not a son), being adopted into God's family I have an inheritance. What if I stop believing?? Instead let me ask, Why would I stop believing?

Mercy is a gift of God as well... but if you don't continue in God's kindness... God will revoke that mercy. Why would you stop? No clue... folks stop for a variety of different reasons.

[2 Peter 2:20]

Sure. My faith will endure to the end because I'm saved. Faith is a gift from God after all isn't it? I couldn't have enough faith to believe in the first place except God gives it to me? I think it's a lack of faith on your part to say that God can't keep the saved 'saved'.

There's more to it than what God does. The Bible says that God wants ALL men to be saved! That means one of 3 things...

1) God always gets what He wants and ALL will go to Heaven
2) God fails because we know that not ALL go to Heaven
3) God gives us everything we need to live and follow a godly and holy life but some don't follow that narrow path.

If you choose #3 then there has to be a factor other than God. Although He is the most important part in the equation our part can have an effect.

[jshears]

Mercy is a gift of God as well... but if you don't continue in God's kindness... God will revoke that mercy. Why would you stop? No clue... folks stop for a variety of different reasons.

Really? Romans says that the gifts of God are without repentance. God doesn't take back a gift --a gift is not earned, it's given unconditionally --else it's not a gift.

[Redeemed by Grace]

The argument that you are trying to make is the same on the OSAS side. How do you know that you are not one of the FALSE being led into destruction and I'm not saying that you are but how do you know? At this time in your life you might be the one of the FALSE that are enduring for a while ie. the rocks and the thorns but you wouldn't know that you are. You wouldn't know this until the end.

That's the problem with those that use FALSE and TRUE. The FALSE don't know they are FALSE but the TRUE act like they know they are TRUE and the TRUE are the only ones that can tell the FALSE they are FALSE. That's funny when you think about it!

That's my point, you are taking the negative position, I'm showing the positive position... When Salvation is for of by in through and God alone, it's not man's work but God's. 'My sheep hear His voice...and they follow' is cognitive active and that being redeemed by the Great Shepherd is security... Evidences are fruit and love for God and for one another.

But I too will agree by saying that salvation is not a one time event, it's an eternal pathway - and that we need to die daily to sin and self, but as His sheep we can confidently say thank you for saving me, for it's all about You Lord.

[Redeemed by Grace]

You've got to be kidding right? I have said that throughout this thread in many post that I have made. I know you have seen it in these many post as well and just because I may not have made that statement in one little specific post.... RbG... that has been my theme throughout all of the post I have made. So how about a little respect for that at least eh?

I do respect you... but tell me then about your words... if you say one thing here and another thing there, which ones do I choose to follow to understand what you mean?

[Buck shot]

Have you ever repented? If a person repents of something and yet continues in that something... they are lying to God and sure enough... broke a promise (more or less).

As to the lying part... if you can repent and yet continue in it and it's all good ... you are in fact lying to God and haven't changed your mind about anything.

WOW, 6 pages in one day!

I could be wrong but the folks that I have read from here on the OSAS side are not saying sinning is good at all. They are not saying it is okay or that God allows it to continue.

Just wanted to point that out

[John146]

Um... no they are not unconditional. That is just something man has made up somewhere. It is required that we endure to the end and even POTS folk understand that. It is required that we believe and yes... even POTS folk believe that. It is even required that we are obedient to Christ.... etc. So there is nothing at all "unconditional" about this.

I have to agree. Did Jesus not say that the one who does not abide in Him will be cast forth as a branch and cast into the fire (John 15:6)? One can't abide (remain) in Him if they aren't in Him in the first place, right?