Once saved always saved....

[Buck shot]

Sorry, don't mean to offend you at all. It's just that your argument really is not very convincing. Not in light of the fact that the Bible says that we are already sons of God (how are we sons if we're not already adopted???), that we ARE already heirs of God, and that we've already received the spirit of adoption. You say we're not adopted until the resurrection? What about those who have died in Christ, according to your view they aren't adopted yet? Not until the resurrection huh? Like I said, not trying to offend you, it's just what you're proposing isn't sound theology, and it's certainly not biblical. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

This is what I brought up about 2,000 post ago

I think their answer was we only have a "spirit" of adoption.

[losthorizon]

WOW, 6 pages in one day!

I could be wrong but the folks that I have read from here on the OSAS side are not saying sinning is good at all. They are not saying it is okay or that God allows it to continue.

Just wanted to point that out

But if we take the non-biblical concept of once saved always saved to its logical conclusion it really does not matter what sins a Christian commits (adultery, murder, alcoholism, etc) – those sins cannot and do not separate the Christian from God. But this concept is in direct contradiction to the word of God…Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers...

...but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers. (James 1:14-16)

For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. (Rom 8:13)

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. Romans 6:16-18

[John146]

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

"waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body."
the redemption of our body

Yeah... and tell me ... why would Paul pray for something that was already a done deal? Again... Scripture don't negate Scripture. It says what it says and apply that with a simple reading and common sense we should clearly know that if I already had it... there ain't any need at all to pray for it.

Good point. Doesn't seem like there'd be any reason to pray for that if it was already a done deal.

[John146]

You said people can 'quit believing'

Can't they?

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. - Heb 6:4-6

6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. - John 15:6

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: - Heb 12:25

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; - 1 Tim 4:1

[Buck shot]

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:13,14)

The Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, not our adoption. I've been adopted but I don't have all of my inheritance yet. I have the down payment of the Spirit of God but the redemption of my body (Romans 8) hasn't yet happened. And I could have no inheritance ALREADY, if there hadn't ALREADY been an adoption.

I am watching for the answers! Brother it seems we think a lot alike .

Project Peter and 2 Peter 2:20 are well rooted in their belief. I do really respect them for that.

Where were you at a couple of weeks ago?

[jshears]

I am watching for the answers! Brother it seems we think a lot alike .

Project Peter and 2 Peter 2:20 are well rooted in their belief. I do really respect them for that.

Where were you at a couple of weeks ago?

Yes we do think a lot alike. Many of the people on here are very well rooted in what they believe. Enjoy discussing issues with them, even if we don't agree on everything. I'd much rather talk about the Word of God than everything else in the world.

[Buck shot]

You don't have the inheritance yet. Nor the adoption which is exactly the inheritance because without it... you aren't a son of God. Again... that is EXACTLY what Paul is telling us in Romans 8. If you had it already... why do you need to hope? If you were already a son of God and you already were participating in eternal life... there is no need of faith. You don't need faith for something already there. That is also why Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13... NOW abideth faith, hope and love. There is going to be a time when there is no need for "faith" because we will have that prize. There will be no need for hope... we will have the inheritance and adoption as sons. That is why the greatest of all those things is love... because in the end... love will always be the one thing that never fades away because we will be in the very presence of love personified.

I AM a son of God. He adopted me and one day I will recieve what He has promised. That is faith. Not a weak faith but a strong faith like a rock! Faith is evidence of things unseen. I know you understand what evidence is. There is nothing to question in evidence. That is why evidence is used to prove things.

Do you think Almighty God could not cast you out of Glory? Even after we finish this fleshly course we will still live by faith that He won't. Faith will not end either but, I know Love is the greatest because without Love their would not be true mercy.

[Partaker of Christ]

This is GREASY grace at its greasiest. Honestly... this is exactly what you are talking about. Try and convince Jesus that you believe but deny Him... then get used to these words... Away from me you worker of iniquity... I never knew you.

I don't understand why the cheap shots?
How is this suppose to be, "exactly what I am talking about"

The discussion was about a person who truly believes, being able or not being able, to stop believing. Why are you now trying to change this into 'greasy grace'?

[ProjectPeter]

Really? Romans says that the gifts of God are without repentance. God doesn't take back a gift --a gift is not earned, it's given unconditionally --else it's not a gift.

Again... man made that up one day. It ain't in the Bible.

Read the parable of the unforgiving servant.

Matthew 18:21 ¶Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
23 "For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a certain king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves.
24 "And when he had begun to settle them, there was brought to him one who owed him ten thousand talents.
25 "But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.
26 "The slave therefore falling down, prostrated himself before him, saying, `Have patience with me, and I will repay you everything.´
27 "And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
28 "But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, `Pay back what you owe.´
29 "So his fellow slave fell down and began to entreat him, saying, `Have patience with me and I will repay you.´
30 "He was unwilling however, but went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.
31 "So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
32 "Then summoning him, his lord said to him, `You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you entreated me.
33 `Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, even as I had mercy on you?´
34 "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
35 "So shall My heavenly Father also do to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."

Who does the king in this parable represent?

Was the servant forgiven a monster debt that he couldn't pay?

Did the servant continue in the kindness of the king?

Did the king call the servant back before him and REVOKE the mercy that was shown?

Was the last judgment on him worse than the first judgment on him?

Did Jesus in fact tell the disciples... God will do the same to you if you don't forgive your brother from the heart?

So yeah... He'll revoke it sure enough if the proper condition isn't met.

[jshears]

This is GREASY grace at its greasiest. Honestly... this is exactly what you are talking about. Try and convince Jesus that you believe but deny Him... then get used to these words... Away from me you worker of iniquity... I never knew you.

"I NEVER knew YOU" This doesn't sound like someone who lost their salvation.

[ProjectPeter]

I do respect you... but tell me then about your words... if you say one thing here and another thing there, which ones do I choose to follow to understand what you mean?

Read what I say in the same way one should read the Bible and most anything else. In context... all my post. Then like very simple math... 1 plus 1 equals two. Put it together. I would hope that we are way beyond have to FULLY CLARIFY points over and over and over again in each little post so as to stop the legalistic mindset of folks who try and do exactly what you are trying to do here. Nothing that I have said has contradicted the other post. This honestly is a habit that many have. It's like no one can put anything together but try and negate one set of words with another set of words.

[ProjectPeter]

WOW, 6 pages in one day!

I could be wrong but the folks that I have read from here on the OSAS side are not saying sinning is good at all. They are not saying it is okay or that God allows it to continue.

Just wanted to point that out

Cool... then tell them to stop sinning and watch the reaction.

[Buck shot]

He teaches the same thing Paul taught.

Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

If that faith doesn't endure to the end... you are in fact a son of the devil. Surely you can see that in the entire letter of 1 John?

No, Ken you see it that way but we are reading the same Bible and do not understand the "whole" the same.

We are sons of God through faith in Jesus Christ NOW.

IF (just for you Sean) some are blotted out then they are no longer sons and I don't think they will be given another chance to return. This is why I can't join ya'll NOSAS camps. Unless I'm wrong, ya'll believe that someone can lose their salvation multiple times.

So I end up setting on your proverbial fence like a turkey.

[ProjectPeter]

I have to agree. Did Jesus not say that the one who does not abide in Him will be cast forth as a branch and cast into the fire (John 15:6)? One can't abide (remain) in Him if they aren't in Him in the first place, right?

Sure... and that doesn't take a degree in Greek to figure out... simple common sense should be all it takes and God gave us that prudence to actually use.

[ProjectPeter]

This is what I brought up about 2,000 post ago

I think their answer was we only have a "spirit" of adoption.

Isn't that EXACTLY what it says? Then later doesn't it say that we in actuality are adopted at the redemption of our bodies?