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Thread: "For the letter killeth, but the spirit gives life", 2 corinthians 3:6

  1. #1

    "For the letter killeth, but the spirit gives life", 2 corinthians 3:6

    "FOR THE LETTER KILLETH, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE", 2 Corinthians 3:6

    Dear Brothers and Sisters,

    Back in the 1980's when I was a student at the Moody Bible Institute I was assigned a ministry in a prison. We had to do ministry related work for graduation requirements. I was teamed up with another man who was a student at a Bible school in Indiana. I do not remember his name.

    On one occasion after we had delivered the Word to prisoners I noticed that the brother appeared to be quite distressed. So I asked him what was the matter. He replied saying,

    "The pastor at my church has been saying that we sin when we do not tithe. He said that the inability to tithe is not an excuse. But I don't have the money to tithe".

    I told the brother that tithing was abolished with the Levitical priesthood for it was an integral part of the Levitical priesthood. He asked me where the Bible says this.

    "Those who are the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law....However, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that ANOTHER PRIEST should rise according to the order of Melchizidek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed of neseccity there is also a CHANGE IN THE LAW" Hebrews 7.

    The sons of Levi had a "commandment" to receive tithes from the people. But that priesthood was abolished and Christ our Priest RECEIVED NO SUCH COMMANDMENT. Ergo, tithing is an old covenant ordinance!

    The brother told me that his conscience had been set free. I felt good because the brother lifted his face in assurance that he is guilt free.

    Since I came to this board I have noticed that a lot of Christians here are carrying over their old covenant baggage into their new covenant relationship with God and even requiring others to do so. So you need to think about backing off because,

    "The letter killeth, but the spirit gives life".

    NOTE: I originally posted Hebrews 8. But the correct chapter is 7.
    Last edited by thethinker; Mar 20th 2008 at 02:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by thethinker View Post
    "FOR THE LETTER KILLETH, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE", 2 Corinthians 3:6

    Dear Brothers and Sisters,

    Back in the 1980's when I was a student at the Moody Bible Institute I was assigned a ministry in a prison. We had to do ministry related work for graduation requirements. I was teamed up with another man who was a student at a Bible school in Indiana. I do not remember his name.

    On one occasion after we had delivered the Word to prisoners I noticed that the brother appeared to be quite distressed. So I asked him what was the matter. He replied saying,

    "The pastor at my church has been saying that we sin when we do not tithe. He said that the inability to tithe is not an excuse. But I don't have the money to tithe".

    I told the brother that tithing was abolished with the Levitical priesthood for it was an integral part of the Levitical priesthood. He asked me where the Bible says this.

    "Those who are the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law....However, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that ANOTHER PRIEST should rise according to the order of Melchizidek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed of neseccity there is also a CHANGE IN THE LAW" Hebrews 8.

    The sons of Levi had a "commandment" to receive tithes from the people. But that priesthood was abolished and Christ our Priest RECEIVED NO SUCH COMMANDMENT. Ergo, tithing is an old covenant ordinance!

    The brother told me that his conscience had been set free. I felt good because the brother lifted his face in assurance that he is guilt free.

    Since I came to this board I have noticed that a lot of Christians here are carrying over their old covenant baggage into their new covenant relationship with God and even requiring others to do so. So you need to think about backing off because,

    "The letter killeth, but the spirit gives life".
    Amen. Living in Christ we have fulfilled the law, it's within our hearts.

  3. #3
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    thethinker said: "Since I came to this board I have noticed that a lot of Christians here are carrying over their old covenant baggage into their new covenant relationship with God and even requiring others to do so. So you need to think about backing off because,

    "The letter killeth, but the spirit gives life".

    Well, I must just ask you this: if I give every dollar I make to God, really, of what concern is it to you? Its my money, after all...
    Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by thethinker View Post
    "FOR THE LETTER KILLETH, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE", 2 Corinthians 3:6

    Dear Brothers and Sisters,

    Back in the 1980's when I was a student at the Moody Bible Institute I was assigned a ministry in a prison. We had to do ministry related work for graduation requirements. I was teamed up with another man who was a student at a Bible school in Indiana. I do not remember his name.

    On one occasion after we had delivered the Word to prisoners I noticed that the brother appeared to be quite distressed. So I asked him what was the matter. He replied saying,

    "The pastor at my church has been saying that we sin when we do not tithe. He said that the inability to tithe is not an excuse. But I don't have the money to tithe".

    I told the brother that tithing was abolished with the Levitical priesthood for it was an integral part of the Levitical priesthood. He asked me where the Bible says this.

    "Those who are the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law....However, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that ANOTHER PRIEST should rise according to the order of Melchizidek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed of neseccity there is also a CHANGE IN THE LAW" Hebrews 8.

    The sons of Levi had a "commandment" to receive tithes from the people. But that priesthood was abolished and Christ our Priest RECEIVED NO SUCH COMMANDMENT. Ergo, tithing is an old covenant ordinance!

    The brother told me that his conscience had been set free. I felt good because the brother lifted his face in assurance that he is guilt free.

    Since I came to this board I have noticed that a lot of Christians here are carrying over their old covenant baggage into their new covenant relationship with God and even requiring others to do so. So you need to think about backing off because,

    "The letter killeth, but the spirit gives life".
    I'm not saying you're wrong, please believe me. And I'd love to be free from what can be bondage. But, what if this you're wrong? What if we are robbing God when we withhold our tithes?


  5. #5
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    Fear Free!

    Quote Originally Posted by stillforgiven View Post
    I'm not saying you're wrong, please believe me. And I'd love to be free from what can be bondage. But, what if this you're wrong? What if we are robbing God when we withhold our tithes?
    Live in the love of God and be fear free!
    Life! Just Live It!
    http://www.lifeblog.co.nr/

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    Amen brother, great post. My understanding of the old covenant law is that is was set up to show us that no matter how hard we try, we cannot uphold the whole law. We also learn that anyone who offends any one point of the law is guilty of the whole law. The law kept a person in bondage because in it, there was no mercy, no grace, no hope, only condemnation. For this reason, Jesus said that He came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. In Jesus' death, He showed how the law kills by being put to death by the very people how claimed to live by the law.

    In His death and resurrection, He put to death the old covenant and made a new one with those who believe on His name. This new covenant releases us from our iniquities and bondage, thereby allowing for true atonement, making us pure and holy, able to stand in our Fathers glorious presence and be counted worthy.

    As for the law, the new covenant doesn't mean that we shouldn't still do anything that the law prescribes, it just means that we are no longer bound to it.

    Now, in regard to not tithing being a sin, if the Holy Spirit convicts you to do so and you are able, yet you do not, you may want to meditate on this verse a little:

    James 4:17: - Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

    Personally, I have found much blessing when I have tithed, both spiritually and financially. If you find yourself compelled to tithe, do so. If not, do not give grudgingly or out of duty.

    2 Corinthians 9:7 - So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.


    In Christ's love, stoo

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by stoomart View Post
    Amen brother, great post. My understanding of the old covenant law is that is was set up to show us that no matter how hard we try, we cannot uphold the whole law. We also learn that anyone who offends any one point of the law is guilty of the whole law. The law kept a person in bondage because in it, there was no mercy, no grace, no hope, only condemnation. For this reason, Jesus said that He came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. In Jesus' death, He showed how the law kills by being put to death by the very people how claimed to live by the law.

    In His death and resurrection, He put to death the old covenant and made a new one with those who believe on His name. This new covenant releases us from our iniquities and bondage, thereby allowing for true atonement, making us pure and holy, able to stand in our Fathers glorious presence and be counted worthy.

    As for the law, the new covenant doesn't mean that we shouldn't still do anything that the law prescribes, it just means that we are no longer bound to it.

    Now, in regard to not tithing being a sin, if the Holy Spirit convicts you to do so and you are able, yet you do not, you may want to meditate on this verse a little:

    James 4:17: - Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

    Personally, I have found much blessing when I have tithed, both spiritually and financially. If you find yourself compelled to tithe, do so. If not, do not give grudgingly or out of duty.

    2 Corinthians 9:7 - So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.


    In Christ's love, stoo
    I'm going to really be thinking and praying about what you've said, to see if I'm trying to live up to someone else's conviction or if it's really from God. There are times I cannot tithe. My whole paycheck sometimes goes to rent, and to write a tithe check would be to write a hot check, and I know that's not right. But I feel condemned for not tithing, because my church teaches that not tithing is a sin, and even teaches that it's a cause of my financial troubles.


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillforgiven View Post
    I'm going to really be thinking and praying about what you've said, to see if I'm trying to live up to someone else's conviction or if it's really from God. There are times I cannot tithe. My whole paycheck sometimes goes to rent, and to write a tithe check would be to write a hot check, and I know that's not right.
    Read this also as you seek God on this:

    2 Cor 9:6-8

    6Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

    Give when you can with a happy heart.

    Also this: Mark 12:43-44

    43Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on."

    It doesn't take 10%, it takes sacrifice... any amount... and God will bless your offers even when they are a few pennies.


    Slug1--out

    ~Limitations in a Christian’s life are due to limited prayer and limiting obedience~

    ~Forgiveness has nothing to do with forgetting that moment... it's all about freedom FROM that moment.~


    ~Your needs activate God's compassion and faith activates God's power~

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  9. #9
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    Dear Stillforgiven,

    Following Christ should not be a burden, but something you delight in, just as a son finds delight in pleasing his father, so should our relationship with our heavenly Father be, to please Him and bring Him honor.

    Matthew 11:28-30

    28 - Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    29 - Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
    30 - For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

    Another thing that I've learned from experience is that we can never be able to out-give God. If all you can spare is the change in the bottom of your pocket, He sees your heart in doing so and will reward you the same as if you could give %100 of everything you have. Again, it's not the quantity, it's the heart.


    In Christ's love, stoo

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Read this also as you seek God on this:

    2 Cor 9:6-8

    6Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

    Give when you can with a happy heart.

    Also this: Mark 12:43-44

    43Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on."

    It doesn't take 10%, it takes sacrifice... any amount... and God will bless your offers even when they are a few pennies.


    Thanks for the scriptures. I know I can come up with something to put into the plate, even it it's not a full 10% some weeks. I can see where this should be a state of my heart and not something that I feel I have to do to make God love me.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by stoomart View Post
    Dear Stillforgiven,

    Following Christ should not be a burden, but something you delight in, just as a son finds delight in pleasing his father, so should our relationship with our heavenly Father be, to please Him and bring Him honor.

    Matthew 11:28-30

    28 - Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    29 - Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
    30 - For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

    Another thing that I've learned from experience is that we can never be able to out-give God. If all you can spare is the change in the bottom of your pocket, He sees your heart in doing so and will reward you the same as if you could give %100 of everything you have. Again, it's not the quantity, it's the heart.


    In Christ's love, stoo
    I think I was typing when you posted this, and I missed it. Thanks for the encouragement. I really have a feeling of peace I have about it now.

    My thanks to thethinker for starting the thread, and to the rest of you for answering my questions.


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Read this also as you seek God on this:

    2 Cor 9:6-8

    6Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

    Give when you can with a happy heart.

    Also this: Mark 12:43-44

    43Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on."

    It doesn't take 10%, it takes sacrifice... any amount... and God will bless your offers even when they are a few pennies.
    The first example is a collection that Paul was taking up for the persecuted saints in Jerusalem. And the 2nd was a widow under the old system who would have been taken in and supported by it. Which was a rule that was passed on to the NT churches too. So it seems that if this is what your church is collecting funds for, then it would be good to tithe.

    Which is not to say that supporting the pastor is not warranted too because it is. That is where the 1/10 works well in a synagogue which required 10 men for it to be formed. That would make everyone of equal substance. Christian giving is not governed by such rules however, rather a generous spirit is our rule. And if one has that, then there ought not be any guilt over having sinned based on one's "tithe".

    Show me a NT storehouse that exists for distribution to the saints and I will change my mind!

    Especially when guys like Greg Laurie are able to collect $14,000,000 in "tithes" for new buildings which HE then owns...
    Robin

    Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established that, unless one loves the truth, he cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal
    And Jesus saith unto him [Thomas], I am the way the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6
    Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford
    Those who compromise with Christ’s enemies may be reckoned with them. - C.H. Spurgeon

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by thethinker View Post

    "FOR THE LETTER KILLETH, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE", 2 Corinthians 3:6

    Dear Brothers and Sisters,

    Back in the 1980's when I was a student at the Moody Bible Institute I was assigned a ministry in a prison. We had to do ministry related work for graduation requirements. I was teamed up with another man who was a student at a Bible school in Indiana. I do not remember his name.

    On one occasion after we had delivered the Word to prisoners I noticed that the brother appeared to be quite distressed. So I asked him what was the matter. He replied saying,

    "The pastor at my church has been saying that we sin when we do not tithe. He said that the inability to tithe is not an excuse. But I don't have the money to tithe".

    I told the brother that tithing was abolished with the Levitical priesthood for it was an integral part of the Levitical priesthood. He asked me where the Bible says this.
    Of course Christians are not bound by the Law of Moses which was “nailed to the cross” but Christians are by command and example under the NT to “lay by him in store” to support the ministry and help the poor “upon the first day of the week”. Christians are not limited by a “tithe” – they can give more or they can give less as long as they do it with a “cheerful heart” – “for God loveth a cheerful giver…”
    Acts 20:35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

    1 Corinthians
    16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
    16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
    16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

    2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

  14. #14
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    Greetings Mograce2U,
    Quote Originally Posted by Mograce2U View Post
    Especially when guys like Greg Laurie are able to collect $14,000,000 in "tithes" for new buildings which HE then owns...
    How do you know how much is collected at a Greg Laurie event and what proof do you have that Greg Laurie owns any such buildings?
    17The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. 18For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “Workers deserve their wages.” 19Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 20But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning. 21I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

    The Holy Bible : Today's New International Version. 2005 (1 Ti 5:17-21). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.
    Are you personally a witness to this? If the answer is yes, then you need at least another witness. If you aren't a witness, then you need some decent proof.

    Grace & peace to you,

    Joe
    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - unknown

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

  15. #15
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    There were actually 3 separate tithes in the OT, two were collected annually (Lev 27:30-33; Deut 14:22-27) and the third was collected every 3 years (Deut 14:28-29, 26:12) for the poor. So on average that's at least 23% plus you also had all the feast & free will offerings on top of that (Ezra 3:5). So if you want to be Biblically consistent, 10% doesn't even get you half there and double tithing still pulls up a bit short as well.

    One needs to consider that Israel, unlike the Church, was a nation and tithes functioned in a similar way as taxes do today (eg. help run the country, social welfare etc.).

    Whle personally I have nothing against tithing, those who insist people must pay a tenth are being legalistic, end of story.

    Cheers
    Leigh

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