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Thread: "For the letter killeth, but the spirit gives life", 2 corinthians 3:6

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by thethinker View Post
    Your church tells you that you sin in not tithing and that is the "cause of your financial troubles"? Wow! They think they have the inroads to God's mind.

    In other words, "God is going to punish you if you don't tithe". Sounds like modern day scribes and pharisees, don't you think?

    So what is then the difference between the old covenant God and the new covenant God? And what is the difference between your church and the scribes and pharisees of Jesus' day?
    Yes, this is taught at my church, but I'm now set free from these laws. I'm not going to leave, because God has made it doubtless that I am to be there. My pastor is just teaching what he was taught, but in many things his eyes are being opened to the truth in the Word instead of what religion says. I will keep this particular area in my prayers for his enlightenment. He really does love God, and it's not greed that he is motivated by. He doesn't even take a salary from our church. He sincerely believes what he's teaching is true, and in his eyes, he would be wrong to not teach it.

    I won't give his name, but if you would pray for him with me, I would appreciate it. Call him Brother G.


  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by valleybldr View Post
    Tolerance and subjective truth are two different things. Each faith community is capable of defining their own "absolutes." Unless the evidence is clear to the contrary, I'm not going to impute motives to someone that disagrees with me. The tithing debate is valid and understandable on several levels. todd
    It is those who require the observance of tithing and other old covenant laws that are not tolerant.

    I confess my own intolerance. But it is toward those who beat the consciences of the sheep with old covenat laws. The man in my true story was distressed because his pastor said that those who don't tithe sin. The man did not have the wherewithal to give 10%.

    It was his pastor who had sin. He brought his own childhood baggage and old covenant baggage in to the pulpit inflicting harm on Christ's sheep. Shame on him!

  3. #33
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    It is human nature to make a list of rules, try to live by them, and feel we're doing OK. It is Spirit nature to be led by the Spirit.

    When we observe Jesus in the Gospels, we see Him living as an observant Jew, so that all should be done correctly. So we should be living as observant Christians. This means being led by the (indwelt) Spirit as only post-Pentecost people can.

    In all things, we give with a free and loving heart, as God leads. If we are not prompted to give, we are not condemned, and refrain from giving with a free and loving heart.

    This of course is a matter of conscience, and is quite apart from outright sin, in which we have no choice.

    It is hard to live in the Spirit of the Law, and apart from the letter of it. We will all wrestle with that distinction as long as we're this side of Heaven.
    Phl 4:11 Not that I speak from want, for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am.

  4. #34
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    Cool Yield and Stop Signs

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  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by SIG View Post
    It is hard to live in the Spirit of the Law, and apart from the letter of it. We will all wrestle with that distinction as long as we're this side of Heaven.
    So I can murder but not hate? No lust but extra-marital sex is fine? This makes no sense and we should wrestle and reject such a notion. todd

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by thethinker View Post
    It is those who require the observance of tithing and other old covenant laws that are not tolerant.
    You make God's instructions to his people sound oppressive. I thought He gave His divine revelation at Sinai as a part of their ticket out of slavery. Guess He really "set them up" huh? todd

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by valleybldr View Post
    So I can murder but not hate? No lust but extra-marital sex is fine? This makes no sense and we should wrestle and reject such a notion. todd
    If you keep the spirit of the law, there will be no sin. Apart from lust, there is no extra-marital sex.

    The spirit of the law will always keep one from sin but the letter of the law will not. The spirit gives life while the letter kills.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    If you keep the spirit of the law, there will be no sin. Apart from lust, there is no extra-marital sex.

    The spirit of the law will always keep one from sin but the letter of the law will not. The spirit gives life while the letter kills.
    I agree with what you say here contrasting the spirit and the letter but where I believe I differ with most who have posted already is that I do not believe that 'the law' has changed, only how we perceive it. What was once only on hard, cold, unfeeling stone has now been written onto soft, willing, feeling hearts. No longer do we feel forced to merely make the appearance of walking righteously. Now it is our desire to walk completely in the righteousness Yeshua died to impart to us. No longer do we need to fear being banished from His table because we have erred. Now, we know that we have been adopted as sons, and a son does not fear the way a servant does.

    God Bless!
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  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by valleybldr View Post
    You make God's instructions to his people sound oppressive. I thought He gave His divine revelation at Sinai as a part of their ticket out of slavery. Guess He really "set them up" huh? todd
    Why did God change the law then? If the Levitical order that required tithing was sufficient, then why did God transfer the priesthood to Christ who was NOT a Levite?

    "Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood...what further need was there that another Priest should come?" [Heb. 7:11]

    The transferrance of the Priesthood from the Levitical to Christ implies the INFERIORITY of the Levitical. A good business man does not make a change if all is going well.

    The old saying, "If it ain't broke don't fix it" applies here. If the Levitical was not broke, then why did God "fix it"?

    The command to tithe under the Levitical priesthood did not create pure hearts. The people surrendered the tenth because they were required. But Christ's priesthood creates the purity of heart that God required from the beginning. So Paul said,

    "Let us give NOT out of necessity" (or requirement).

  10. #40
    You all probably have no idea just how much this thread has set me free. Nothing has changed for me financially since I first posted, but it's all different on the inside now. I used to dread not only the tithe/offering time at church, but then when any opportunities to give came, I felt horrible. How could I give a few dollars there when I wasn't even paying my tithes to my church? Now, I'm actually excited about all these opportunities that I will have to give, even if it's just a dollar.

    Thanks again for starting this thread and for all who have helped.


  11. #41
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    Praise God for the freedom His spirit brings!


    In Christ's love, stoo

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by stillforgiven View Post
    You all probably have no idea just how much this thread has set me free. Nothing has changed for me financially since I first posted, but it's all different on the inside now. I used to dread not only the tithe/offering time at church, but then when any opportunities to give came, I felt horrible. How could I give a few dollars there when I wasn't even paying my tithes to my church? Now, I'm actually excited about all these opportunities that I will have to give, even if it's just a dollar.

    Thanks again for starting this thread and for all who have helped.
    Stillforgiven,
    Though we are free to give according to conscience now we still should have the right priorities. I believe that those who deliver the Word of God to us and our families week in and week out should be at the top of our priorities.

    I exhort you to keep first in mind your pastor's needs and the needs of other minister's of the Word at your church.

    We are all being fed by the pain staking hard work of those who study the Word.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by thethinker View Post
    The transferrance of the Priesthood from the Levitical to Christ implies the INFERIORITY of the Levitical. A good business man does not make a change if all is going well.
    That's what I said "He set them up (for failure)" by giving them an inferior way. Do you allow for the destruction of the Temple in your thinkings regarding why things changed? todd

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by thethinker View Post
    The command to tithe under the Levitical priesthood did not create pure hearts. The people surrendered the tenth because they were required.
    How can you possibly make that judgment? I'm sure many follow[ed] God because they see His ways as being right and just. todd

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by valleybldr View Post
    How can you possibly make that judgment? I'm sure many follow[ed] God because they see His ways as being right and just. todd
    Psa 1:2 But his delight [is] in the law of YHWH; and in His law doth he meditate day and night.

    Psa 40:8 I delight to do Thy will, O my God: yea, Thy law [is] within my heart.

    Psa 119:16 I will delight myself in Thy statutes: I will not forget Thy Word.

    Psa 119:47 And I will delight myself in Thy commandments, which I have loved.
    Thus says YHWH, "Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you will find rest for your souls.
    -Jeremiah 6:16

    Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. - Matthew 11:29

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