Amils - has Rev. 19:17-21 occurred yet?

[Hawk]

The subject line says it all...

“Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”
And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.”
(Rev 19:17-21 NKJV)

If it has occurred, I'm curious what scriptures you would use to support it.

If it has not, I'd love to hear when you think it will occur.

Thanks so much! I'm just trying to get a handle around this viewpoint and there are some nagging questions I am having a hard time answering...

Hawk

[wpm]

The subject line says it all...

“Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”
And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.”
(Rev 19:17-21 NKJV)

If it has occurred, I'm curious what scriptures you would use to support it.

If it has not, I'd love to hear when you think it will occur.

Thanks so much! I'm just trying to get a handle around this viewpoint and there are some nagging questions I am having a hard time answering...

Hawk

This is the one final future Coming of Christ.

Paul

[Hawk]

Thanks so much for the speedy reply Paul! I completely agree with you.

Can you expound on what you believe is happening specifically in 19:20?

Hawk

[Romulus]

The subject line says it all...

“Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”
And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.”
(Rev 19:17-21 NKJV)

If it has occurred, I'm curious what scriptures you would use to support it.

If it has not, I'd love to hear when you think it will occur.

Thanks so much! I'm just trying to get a handle around this viewpoint and there are some nagging questions I am having a hard time answering...

Hawk

The other point of view of fulfillment which a few of us (very few) believe, is unfortunately against board rules to discuss (Full Preterism.)

God Bless!

[Hawk]

I guess the crux of my whole misunderstanding can be boiled down to one starting question.

Is Rev. 19:17-21 a parallel passage of Rev. 20:1-10 in the amil viewpoint? Is it just simply a "retelling" of the same events, "rewinding" at 20:1 back to Calvary and proceeding to the second coming and ultimate destruction of the wicked at 20:9?

Hawk

[wpm]

I guess the crux of my whole misunderstanding can be boiled down to one starting question.

Is Rev. 19:17-21 a parallel passage of Rev. 20:1-10 in the amil viewpoint? Is it just simply a "retelling" of the same events, "rewinding" at 20:1 back to Calvary and proceeding to the second coming and ultimate destruction of the wicked at 20:9?

Hawk

Rev 17-19 is speaking about the intra-Advent period. Babylon is false religion. The beast is the antichrist system. This ends with war against the saints, then the Coming of Christ.

I believe Rev 20 is also speaking about the intra-Advent period. The binding of Satan occurred spiritually at the cross. The Gospel went out to the ethnos (Gentiles). Satan and the spirit of antichrist will be released from their restraint at the end. The saints will then be surrounded - then the Coming of Christ.

Paul

[John146]

The subject line says it all...

“Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”
And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.”
(Rev 19:17-21 NKJV)

If it has occurred, I'm curious what scriptures you would use to support it.

If it has not, I'd love to hear when you think it will occur.

Thanks so much! I'm just trying to get a handle around this viewpoint and there are some nagging questions I am having a hard time answering...

Hawk

No, that has not occurred yet. It's a description of the second coming of Christ.

[John146]

I guess the crux of my whole misunderstanding can be boiled down to one starting question.

Is Rev. 19:17-21 a parallel passage of Rev. 20:1-10 in the amil viewpoint?

Not exactly. Paul explained it already. But I'll just add that we see both Rev 19:17-21 and Rev 20:9 as being when Christ returns "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thess 1:7-8).

Is it just simply a "retelling" of the same events, "rewinding" at 20:1 back to Calvary and proceeding to the second coming and ultimate destruction of the wicked at 20:9?

No, I think it's just speaking of the actual day of His return.

[Hawk]

I'm getting clarity, thanks again Eric and Paul...

Do you see the battle of Rev. 19:17-21 as the same battle as Rev. 20:7-10, or are they two different battles, both occurring some time around the second coming of Christ?

"Around", meaning a few hours or days, not 1000 years

Hawk

[John146]

I'm getting clarity, thanks again Eric and Paul...

Do you see the battle of Rev. 19:17-21 as the same battle as Rev. 20:7-10, or are they two different battles, both occurring some time around the second coming of Christ?

"Around", meaning a few hours or days, not 1000 years

Hawk

I see them as the same battle. I see the battle of Armageddon (Rev 16:13-16) as being the same battle as those.

[Hawk]

I see them as the same battle. I see the battle of Armageddon (Rev 16:13-16) as being the same battle as those.

Cool, thanks Eric! wpm, what do you think?

Hawk

[wpm]

Cool, thanks Eric! wpm, what do you think?

Hawk

Likewise. Gog and Magog battle is before the return of Christ, not 1,000 yrs+ after.

Paul

[ross3421]

I guess the crux of my whole misunderstanding can be boiled down to one starting question.

Is Rev. 19:17-21 a parallel passage of Rev. 20:1-10 in the amil viewpoint? Is it just simply a "retelling" of the same events, "rewinding" at 20:1 back to Calvary and proceeding to the second coming and ultimate destruction of the wicked at 20:9?

Hawk

Just an addition..........

The events in Rev 1-7 all have occurred prior to the return of Christ. The confusion is the literal interpetation of 1000 years. ummm Minnesota is called the state of a thousand lakes...... but I bet it does not have a thousand?

Anyway, you will see that Satan was cast into, and is loosened from the bottomless pit prior to Christ's return. He is cast into the pit in chapter 12 prior to the 1260 days and the woman is protected from the serpant Satan for this period. Since there is no measured time in heaven/hell Satan is reffered as being in this location for "thousand years". During this 1260 days in which Satan is bound he has a man in his place which deceives the world after which he himself is loosened and comes up after the 5 trumpet is complete for a period of 30 days.

Rev 8.9 then speak of the gathering of the final battle and the second coming of Christ.


Mark

[Hawk]

Likewise. Gog and Magog battle is before the return of Christ, not 1,000 yrs+ after.

Paul

Great.

So if the battle of Rev. 19 is the exact same battle as Rev. 20, how do you account for the discrepancies in details between the two battles? It would seem as if there has been some sort of passage of time between them (perhaps not 1000 years but a chronological reading of the text would of course indicate that - this is not a major point I am making, just a small observation - I am still just trying to obtain your viewpoint).

In Rev. 19:20, the "beast" and the "false prophet" are thrown alive into the lake of fire, but in Rev. 20, they are identified as already in there. Satan then joins them (20:10). If these were "parallel" passages, why would 20:10 describe the "beast" and "false prophet" as already being in the lake of fire?

Finally, hash out practically for me what it looks like for an "antichrist system" and a "false religion" to be thrown into the lake of fire.

Thanks again for helping me to understand your view!

Hawk

[The Village Idiot]

is an obvious parody to the marriage supper of the Lamb, referenced a few verses earlier.

"And the angel said to me, 'write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb'" (Re 19:9).