Joel Osteen on respecting God in our diets

[valleybldr]

Um... alrighty then I suppose.

Eze 20:25 "Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and ordinances whereby they should not live; :26 and I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they set apart all that openeth the womb, that I might destroy them, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD."

Translations differ (probably, in part, because it appears a direct contradiction of an earlier verse) but "context, context, context." The NIV and a number of other translations word it "I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by;" It's not God's law that is "not good" but the system of statutes they created for themselves. See verse 18.

todd

[HisGrace]

Deut 14:8 Also the swine is unclean for you, because it has cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud; you shall not eat their flesh or touch their dead carcasses.

I have also heard that it says in the Bible that we are not suppoed to eat shell fish, but can't find scripture to support this.

[valleybldr]

Deut 14:8 Also the swine is unclean for you, because it has cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud; you shall not eat their flesh or touch their dead carcasses.

I have also heard that it says in the Bible that we are not suppoed to eat shell fish, but can't find scripture to support this.

Lev. 11:10 "And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which [is] in the waters, they [shall be] an abomination unto you:"

[Athanasius]

Seems to fit a long quite nicely with the prosperity Gospel.

[diffangle]

But science today tells us why it was bad back in that day... and even say 40 years ago it wasn't the greatest of things to eat if you were buying from Joe Schmucky down at the little farm. But for a while now... pigs aren't eating all the junk that Joel talked about in this little bit of a sermon. The stuff you buy in the store now is grain fed and pumped full of antibiotics (and who knows what else) just as the cows, chickens, and whatever else they feed you from farm raised food... even the fish.

Pigs today eat feces... and do you think that the antibiotics and steroids they pump those creatures with isn't toxic or are those things actually considered food? Pigs don't have sweat glands, and as Joel points out, they have a very fast digestive system so you are eating alot of built up toxins(feces, parasites, antibiotics, steroids, pesticides from their feed). Also, when it comes to shellfish and fish without scales, it's still unsafe... why else do dr's tell pregnant women to stay away from those things? They are bigger fish that store up more toxins like mercury in their systems. Here's a good article that gets into why it's the unclean meats are still toxic to our systems...

http://www.lcg.org/cgi-bin/lcg/study...tem=1116549049

But nevertheless... point is the same. One can not believe God wasn't talking about clean and unclean animals I figure all they want... one still have to contend with what it says.

Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.
4 "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

Notice God made no such exception at all nor was it recorded as such.

Why did He make a distinction between clean and unclean animals when he was loading the ark?

[Matt14]

Why did He make a distinction between clean and unclean animals when he was loading the ark?

For sacrificial purposes, not for food.

-

[diffangle]

For sacrificial purposes, not for food.

-

Why wouldn't YHWH accept all His creatures for sacrifice if "every creature is good" and not to be refused? It makes me wonder if any animals went extinct as a result of Noah eating one or both of the two unclean animals he took on the ark.

[ProjectPeter]

Eze 20:25 "Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and ordinances whereby they should not live; :26 and I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they set apart all that openeth the womb, that I might destroy them, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD."

Translations differ (probably, in part, because it appears a direct contradiction of an earlier verse) but "context, context, context." The NIV and a number of other translations word it "I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by;" It's not God's law that is "not good" but the system of statutes they created for themselves. See verse 18.

todd

Um... do the ever popular Hebrew word study... there is no "over to" in there. I gave them also... I also gave them... that is the proper translation. That the NIV got some doctrinal tweaking into their translation... not a surprise. To think God gave them those ordinances and whatnot that they actually couldn't keep... that does kick a few doctrinal sacred cows slap in the kisser.

[ProjectPeter]

Pigs today eat feces... and do you think that the antibiotics and steroids they pump those creatures with isn't toxic or are those things actually considered food? Pigs don't have sweat glands, and as Joel points out, they have a very fast digestive system so you are eating alot of built up toxins(feces, parasites, antibiotics, steroids, pesticides from their feed). Also, when it comes to shellfish and fish without scales, it's still unsafe... why else do dr's tell pregnant women to stay away from those things? They are bigger fish that store up more toxins like mercury in their systems. Here's a good article that gets into why it's the unclean meats are still toxic to our systems...

http://www.lcg.org/cgi-bin/lcg/study...tem=1116549049

And again... today you can cook it times less than once upon a time because they have gotten rid of all them there toxins... and I don't care what the video says by folks that are out for their agenda of don't touch or taste. Point is... there's a lot of folks that have lived right long lives that at bacon or sausage most every morning of their lives and I'd never question their love for the Lord or their salvation because they pigged out (pun intended) on those items.

You don't want to eat pork or any meat in your case... that's cool. Knock yourself out and I'll not be offended in the least. If we ate together then I'd cook up something without all of that and be just as thankful for that meal as I am a T-Bone steak. But to question a Gentile believer and their obedience because they do not follow the law of Moses is truly as Matt said... getting into that Galatians issue.

Why did He make a distinction between clean and unclean animals when he was loading the ark?

For the offering to God. First thing they did in fact once they got off that there boat eh?

[ProjectPeter]

Why wouldn't YHWH accept all His creatures for sacrifice if "every creature is good" and not to be refused? It makes me wonder if any animals went extinct as a result of Noah eating one or both of the two unclean animals he took on the ark.

Um... he liked the smell of some over the other. Goodness... only you and I can at best guess. Why was Cain's offering not acceptable and yet Abel's was? Lot's of speculation on that but none of it biblical. Fact is... we don't know. Best guess biblically... God wasn't into the smell of fruit of the ground but really did enjoy the smell of roasted lamb. This is just absolutely reaching and reading doctrine into Scripture where the doctrine actually makes the actual words in Scripture of no affect.

Here is what that passage said when God spoke to Noah. All creatures are yours for food. Now... is that right or is that wrong?

[valleybldr]

To think God gave them those ordinances and whatnot that they actually couldn't keep... that does kick a few doctrinal sacred cows slap in the kisser.

Sure and it should because it directly contradicts what the Lord said Himself when giving them Torah. Deut. 30:11 "For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not too hard for thee, neither is it far off."

todd

[ProjectPeter]

Sure and it should because it directly contradicts what the Lord said Himself when giving them Torah. Deut. 30:11 "For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not too hard for thee, neither is it far off."

todd

No it doesn't contradict it at all. Jesus made the same thing clear. Moses gave those folks plenty of stuff that God never intended. Divorce... hate your enemy... etc. Those things are in fact in the Law of Moses and were allowed. But hey... one has to see before they can first understand.

Then add to the very simple facts of the New Testament Scripture written by Paul the apostle to the Gentile. Most folks in here are sure enough Gentile. We sure enough are not bound by the same yoke the Jewish folk were bound by and that was the Law of Moses as made clear by Peter and James in Acts 15.

One don't want to eat pork then don't. If you believe it a sin then to you it would be a sin because you couldn't eat it in faith. If one wants a ham and cheese sub from Subway tomorrow and they can give thanks for that food and eat it in faith... bon appetite. Be blessed in eating it.

[diffangle]

And again... today you can cook it times less than once upon a time because they have gotten rid of all them there toxins... and I don't care what the video says by folks that are out for their agenda of don't touch or taste.

Again, are mercury, antibiotics, steroids, and the high amounts of pesticides they consume considered food? You don't cook those things out. Also, why do dr's tell pregnant women to not consume shellfish and tuna?

Point is... there's a lot of folks that have lived right long lives that at bacon or sausage most every morning of their lives and I'd never question their love for the Lord or their salvation because they pigged out (pun intended) on those items.

I wouldn't question their salvation either, I would question if those who consumed those things and lived long lives suffered with health problems as a result of those foods and if they also consumed alot more plant material to balance out the fatty toxic meat consumption verses todays diet of fatty toxic meat with lots of processed foods(instead of veggies). I don't know if you've ever read Studyin2Show's testimony about how her father was advised by his dr to lay off the pork b/c it would kill him. Why would his dr say that about pork but nothing about laying off steak or chicken?

You don't want to eat pork or any meat in your case... that's cool. Knock yourself out and I'll not be offended in the least. If we ate together then I'd cook up something without all of that and be just as thankful for that meal as I am a T-Bone steak. But to question a Gentile believer and their obedience because they do not follow the law of Moses is truly as Matt said... getting into that Galatians issue.

Again I'm not saying it's a salvation issue, I'm saying that His instructions for us are good and I believe them to be for good reason.

For the offering to God. First thing they did in fact once they got off that there boat eh?

He only sacrificed one of each so why so many more pairs of clean than unclean. Noah ate more often than he did making sacrifices so why didn't YHWH command him to take just as many unclean animals if that was going to be what Noah would be eating as his food? If he was to eat one or both of the two unclean animals, then that would make them extinct quickly.

[quote]

Um... he liked the smell of some over the other. Goodness... only you and I can at best guess.

Or maybe He doesn't like scavengers nor considers them food as He says in Deut. and Lev.

Here is what that passage said when God spoke to Noah. All creatures are yours for food. Now... is that right or is that wrong?

He didn't say all creatures, it says every moving thing but when you look at the Hebrew text, the word every isn't included in it, it's also interesting to note that when that Hebrew word appears in other verses it follows the words birds and/or cattle... so why include birds and cattle in the verses if that word means every creature? That same verse says that He gave the green herb too but I wouldn't rush out to consume that hemlock smoothie so quickly.

[Athanasius]

I don't know, I heard from this guy named So Crates that Hemlock was a real trip.

[diffangle]

I don't know, I heard from this guy named So Crates that Hemlock was a real trip.

Drink up then. Throw in some poison ivy while you're at it... yum.