Joel Osteen on respecting God in our diets

[valleybldr]

It is not my desire to debate the overall merits of America's number one religious TV program. I do, however, find the following clip fascinating since the teaching is done before a rather large audience in an evangelical mega-church and I assume it was broadcast nationally. I find many Protestants open to God's right and purposes in deeming some meats clean and others unfit. IMO, Joel does a good explaining the practical aspect of this discussion.

todd

http://www.mydadsrestaurant.com/josteencleanfoodbig.wmv

[Grace40]

I'm not a big Joel Osteen fan, but I have to say I do agree with him on this. I went years without eating pork because the Lord convicted me that it was wrong.

[Matt14]

It is not my desire to debate the overall merits of America's number one religious TV program. I do, however, find the following clip fascinating since the teaching is done before a rather large audience in an evangelical mega-church and I assume it was broadcast nationally. I find many Protestants open to God's right and purposes in deeming some meats clean and others unfit. IMO, Joel does a good explaining the practical aspect of this discussion.

todd

http://www.mydadsrestaurant.com/josteencleanfoodbig.wmv

I would take God's word over Osteen's any day:

1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving;
1Ti 4:5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Rom 14:14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Act 10:9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour.
Act 10:10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance
Act 10:11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth.
Act 10:12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air.
Act 10:13 And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."
Act 10:14 But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean."
Act 10:15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common."

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[diffangle]

I would take God's word over Osteen's any day:

1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving;
1Ti 4:5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Since us humans are creatures of God, is it okay for us to eat each other? Obviously there are some creatures that YHWH doesn't consider to be food. Paul was dealing with gnosticism... looking at verse 1 you can see that Paul is not talking about our Creators Word/Instructions...

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

His Word is not a doctrine of devils... never was... never will be.

Rom 14:14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

This isn't the condoning of eating animals that our Creator doesn't consider food. Again, Paul was dealing with gnostics who teach that asceticism(like abstaining from all meats) is what makes one holy.

Act 10:9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour.
Act 10:10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance
Act 10:11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth.
Act 10:12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air.
Act 10:13 And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."
Act 10:14 But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean."
Act 10:15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common."

This has nothing to do with food as verses 19 and 20 reveals what the vision was about...

While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee. Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

and then Peter reiterates what his vision meant in verse 28...

And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

It wasn't about food, it was about a law the Jews(not YHWH's law) had to not keep company with gentiles... YHWH set him straight on the wrongness of that man-made law.

[Matt14]

If it's about the Law, perhaps this one will better suit you:

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
Gal 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

If you choose to be bound by the Law of Moses, that is your choice. That's all I have to say on this matter.

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[ProjectPeter]

Colossians 2:20 ¶If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"
22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with the using) -- in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

[HisLeast]

Posts 4 & 5 of this thread illustrate beautifully what I struggle with HOURLY in my walk.

Damned if one does, and damned if one doesn't.

[diffangle]

If it's about the Law, perhaps this one will better suit you:

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
Gal 5:4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

If you choose to be bound by the Law of Moses, that is your choice. That's all I have to say on this matter.

-

Paul was addressing those who taught that one can only be justified/saved by ritual conversion/circumcision... the Law has never been what saves/justifies us... it's always been about circumcision of the heart, we should want to obey His Instructions out of love for Him... not out of obligation.

[Matt14]

Paul was addressing those who taught that one can only be justified/saved by ritual conversion/circumcision... the Law has never been what saves/justifies us... it's always been about circumcision of the heart, we should want to obey His Instructions out of love for Him... not out of obligation.

If you keep one, you must keep them all. Adherence to the food laws of the Old Law is unnecessary and adverse to the sacrifice of Christ. If Christ took it away from you, why would you want it back?

Rom 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

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[Matt14]

Posts 4 & 5 of this thread illustrate beautifully what I struggle with HOURLY in my walk.

Damned if one does, and damned if one doesn't.

The Bible is very clear on this matter. You do not have to be in doubt.

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[ProjectPeter]

Since us humans are creatures of God, is it okay for us to eat each other? Obviously there are some creatures that YHWH doesn't consider to be food.

Honestly... this I look at and marvel. I understand folks believe what they believe but when this is an example... it just seems goofy.

There is a clear distinction made Scripturally of a critter and it being food as opposed to eating humans.

Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.
4 "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.
5 "And surely I will require your lifeblood; from every beast I will require it. And from every man, from every man's brother I will require the life of man.
6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.

So while I know that folks believe unclean animals aren't what this is speaking of... that isn't my point right now. The "not eat humans" as if that was a "creature" one would count as food thus you've made some grand point... it isn't that grand really.

[Semi-tortured]

Posts 4 & 5 of this thread illustrate beautifully what I struggle with HOURLY in my walk.

Damned if one does, and damned if one doesn't.

Amen, brother. Hourly struggles FTL.

On one hand you have most Christians that believe it's OK to eat pork (which doesn't make it right obviously). Also, the scripture supporting the eating of pork seems to be more convincing to me than the scripture used prohibiting it. I would have no problem giving up pork. I probably eat pig 20-25 times per year counting ham. Take away ham and I maybe eat it 5 times per year. But I feel no personal conviction except when people tell me it's wrong.

[Brother Mark]

Posts 4 & 5 of this thread illustrate beautifully what I struggle with HOURLY in my walk.

Damned if one does, and damned if one doesn't.

There's only two laws brother, love God and love man. Trust in the Lord and follow him with all your heart.

[diffangle]

[/color][/size]Honestly... this I look at and marvel. I understand folks believe what they believe but when this is an example... it just seems goofy.

There is a clear distinction made Scripturally of a critter and it being food as opposed to eating humans.

It's not that goofy, here's the Strong's def of the word "creatures" used in that verse...

ktisma (Strong's G2938) meaning...
1) thing founded
2) created thing

We are created things so we're included in that.

Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant.
4 "Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.
5 "And surely I will require your lifeblood; from every beast I will require it. And from every man, from every man's brother I will require the life of man.
6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.

So while I know that folks believe unclean animals aren't what this is speaking of... that isn't my point right now. The "not eat humans" as if that was a "creature" one would count as food thus you've made some grand point... it isn't that grand really.

Why does He deem certain animals as clean and unclean after Gen 9? The point of asking that question when referencing 1 Tim 4 is that obviously "every creature" isn't really addressing "every creature" or else humans would be included in that. Paul says in verse 1 that he is addressing a doctrine of devils... do you honestly believe that YHWH's instructions are a doctrine of devils? Also, in verse 3 he says that they are teaching abstaining from all meat and marriage... those are purely gnostic practices/asceticism when done out of trying to be holy/justified... like Catholic priests not marrying and their(the Catholics) practice of abstaining from meat.

[Brother Mark]

I would take God's word over Osteen's any day:

Amen! When the food laws were given, God spoke of being holy.

Lev 11:44-47
44 'For I am the Lord your God. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am holy. And you shall not make yourselves unclean with any of the swarming things that swarm on the earth. 45 'For I am the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt, to be your God; thus you shall be holy for I am holy.'"

46 This is the law regarding the animal, and the bird, and every living thing that moves in the waters, and everything that swarms on the earth, 47 to make a distinction between the unclean and the clean, and between the edible creature and the creature which is not to be eaten.
NASB

Yet, in the NT nowhere is being holy associated with food. If we are to follow the food laws, then they are to be about holiness. What then are they teaching?

Peter uses this reference to teach us about what we eat with our minds.

1 Peter 1:13-16

13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16 because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
NASU

We are to take every thought captive and not eat the unclean thoughts of the enemy. Then we can be holy as God is holy. Sin starts in the mind and heart. When we think it and receive it into our heart, then it will come out and defile us.

Matt 15:18-20
18 "But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. 19 "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. 20 "These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man."
NASB

Let us then think only on things that are pure and avoid eating the unclean food of bitterness, fornication, etc that will defile us. Then we can be holy as he is holy.