Should Christians judge actions of others? Or not?

[Diggindeeper]

There have been many so good points brought out and I want to commend people for the study you must have already done on this subject! I am doing this from a study I led a few years back. This is taken from that time of teaching that took us about five or six weeks to study and discuss. I decided to do this here on the board because all the time I hear people saying, We're not supposed to judge others. And often I hear, You're not supposed to judge me.

One point that has been pointed out in your replies is that in order to witness to others, we MUST first be capable of judging their actions. I agree, and that can be scripturally proven. How can an erring brother be restored, or some lost hell-bound person brought to repentance if no spiritual, holy saint of God cannot JUDGE or DISCERN that there is sin in his life...and possess the BOLDNESS to point it out and lead the erring one to repentance?

Friends, this is love in action! It is a matter of life and death.

We certainly are NOT to go around with a judgmental, hypocritical, condemning, self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitude, but we do need to seriously reconsider whether or not to judge, and to speak out when needed! I don't believe Jesus intended that we are NEVER, NEVER to judge...but we are to JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY!

Paul DISCERNED that a young woman in a group following him and hearing his preaching had a demon--a spirit of divination.

Acts 16:16-18
16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.


The Apostle Peter rebuked Simon the sorcerer publicly, saying, "Thy heart is not right in the sight of God"

Acts 8:9-23
9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.

11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.


Jesus often said things like, "Woe to you...hypocrites!"

Many church people, and even preachers, today would be screaming, "Look out Paul! Watch out Peter! Jesus, that is judging! This is often said in ignorance,but often it is said out of contempt, since the use of "you are judging" is sometimes used as a cover up in self-defense of sin in their own life. After all, it really is true...mankind tends to love darkness better than light! (See John 3:19)

2 Timothy 4:2
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

The child of God is to reprove, rebuke and exhort." This REQUIRES judging and spiritual discerning on our part.Yet, everywhere we hear howls of protests from professing Christians, "Look out there, you're judging - and that is a sin!"

NO! It is not a sin. It is right. It is scriptural.

God expects saints to reprove and rebuke carnal, worldly, sinning people...to point out the sin, worldliness or error in their lives...even if they get mad!

And, they DO get mad.

(We'll go on to Part 3 on Friday night. Meanwhile, feel free to continue this good discussion!)

[tgallison]

[QUOTE]

Judge Not?? (Part #1)
Should Christians judge actions of others? Or not? This is an important and serious issue of controversy to God's people today.

2 examples in the Old Testament.

Ahithophel judging David.

Ahithophel judged David worthy of death for what he did to Uriah, his grand son-in-law. He was also instrumental in helping fulfill the prophecy of Nathan against David in regards to David's wives.

God punished David three ways we know about. He shamed David before all Israel, regarding his concubines. He promised the sword would never depart from David's house. And he took the child that was conceived out of wedlock.

And yet God said David was a man after his own heart.

Ahithophel's judgment left unsatisfied, went on to destroy him. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord.

Then we have Job. God said, "there was non like him in the world".

If you had met Job you probably wouldn't have like him very much. He was so feared by the young men, that they went and hid in his presence, so said Job.

Job's three friends, who probably knew Job as well as anyone, condemned him.

Now they judged Job, not just his actions which they were well aware of, but were he stood with God.

They made 2 errors. One, they judged his relationship with God, and two, they condemned Job without having an answer to how Job could get right with God.

My conclusion. 1. You can judge a persons actions, as some have stated, but you can't judge their relationship with God. 2. When you judge a person's actions, you best have the correct answer to help them. Motives count.

[longtooth]

I am a very practical, rubber meets the road Christian. The difference in being judgemental & making a judgement call of right or wrong is the direction of ones heart.

I am no better than the bad sinners of the world. Matter O fact, when I look at where I was headed when I made my life committment to Jesus, I honestly have to confess except for the grace of God there I would be.

Taking a stand for the right & wrong of the Word is not being judgemental.
God looks at the heart & that is His work of judgement.
We are to look at the fruit.

[IamBill]

Here is my understanding, and how I hear the HS -

7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
(IOW- Don't think that- "you will not be judged")

2 For with what judgment ye judge,(?) ye shall be judged: (!)
and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

John 7:24 ? - no contradiction !


I will worry about judging myself first, lead by example.

and then I am judged in error, for stopping at 2 ?

I am content to be judged, I will be judged. and what I have expressed is in alignment with 3 -5 and why I stopped at 2
7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mt 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


and also does Not contradict - John 7:24 In any way

7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Discernment and guidance Yes, But - (let me go get a quote from "Daughter")
---

One thing... "judge" in Greek is poorly translated in English. In the original text... judge means, "to cut off entirely..." it's not "don't decide that this is what the person is doing," or "this is what they mean," it mean, "don't cut off, eternally reject..." So "don't judge" means, "don't utterly condemn, reject, cast out for eternity.

[theleast]

In chapter six, Jesus has just finished teaching us how to pray and that we must learn to rely upon God for our every need. Now the LORD, our God, is about to instruct us in the use of the wisdom God has imparted to us.


Mat 7:1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you.
Mat 7:3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me cast out the mote out of thine eye; and lo, the beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


The lost man will often stop with the first verse, after all, you don't want to ruin your life, filled with sin, and most, even the Christian, will stop at the end of verse 2. As Jesus has stated in the second verse, we must never judge a person by stricter standards than we will want to be judged by. At the same time we are given the Ten Commandments (Exo. 20) and the first five books of the Old Testament are known as the Books of the Law because we are shown, down to the last detail, how to obey them.


Jesus is teaching us, verses 3 through 5, that when we judge that we must first make ourselves right with God. That does not mean that we can sin the same sin if we keep our mouths shut to the sins of another. We are taught, through out the Bible, that God seeks after a righteous people to call His own. We are also taught, through out the scriptures that we are to grow in His grace every day of our lives here on this Earth. As His servants we are to be examples and to never lead, even a child into sin. If we do not do our very best to live a righteous life and others see us claiming the name of Christ, they will follow our example and we will be guilty of leading them into sin, just as surely as if we have driven them there at the point of a gun.

Mat 7:6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their feet, and turn and rend you.


In verse 6 we learn that we are to judge. Without judging the circumstances and the mettle of the person we are in danger of making ourselves and the Gospel into Canon Fodder to the lost man. In another verse of scripture, Jesus taught us to be ready to kick the dust off our feet and to seek the person that is ready to hear the truth. Without judgment, one will stand there for all eternity, witnessing to the same lost man and thereby make him or herself useless to the work of the Kingdom.


Mat 7:7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8for every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.


Not only does Jesus teach us to pray, He is now teaching us to be proactive in our prayers. At some point in the Christians life he or she must learn to seek after God to do for them the things that they are not able to do without Him.


Mat 7:9Or what man is there of you, who, if his son shall ask him for a loaf, will give him a stone;
Mat 7:10or if he shall ask for a fish, will give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father who is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?


God has opened His vault to us and to access it we need only to live our lives in service to Him. If we are going to serve God we must learn to follow His directions. In the Great Commission we are instructed to make desciples of men, everywher. If I walk up to a Muslim and begin to witness to him I must first judge him as being wrong and unsaved. If we are going to help the protitute break free of her sin, we must judge her as an unrepentent sinner before we can minister to her.


Mat 7:12All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets.


When you see that eighteen year old getting drunk every night and putting notches on his belt to record his sexual adventures, will you just e silent, and allow him to work his way into Hell or will you judge his sin and seek to plant a seed that might, one day germinate and be harvested, later, by another Christian?

This is a great post!

[timmyb]

Proverbs 26:1-13 tells us about lack of discernment and the hypocrisy it shows.

Condemnation and forgiveness do not mix. There is liberty for Christians in serving God (Rom. 14:1-12)

note- Diggin's John verse is 24 of chapter 7, not verse 4

but our freedom is not a cover up for sin

[Teke]

but our freedom is not a cover up for sin

No, nor is it to cause others to sin.

[timmyb]

the end of the law is love... love does no wrong to a neighbor

[Diggindeeper]

More on 2 Timothy 4:2-- Some dictionary definitions:

REPROVE means to rebuke, to scold, to find fault with.
REBUKE means to criticize sharply.
EXHORT means to urge by strong argument or appeal.
PERCEIVE means to become aware of; to observe; to detect.

It seems to me that we are in agreement thus far. We ARE to judge, in order to point others in the right direction, and to the path of righteousness. We Are to judge, in order to turn others from sin. We are to judge their actions, their lifestyle, their wrongdoing. All Judging is NOT wrong!

Judging, trying or discerning is a grave matter that should not be taken lightly. There is a Biblical way to judge. If we judge with a holier-than-thou attitude, or without love and compassion, or if we are not living as Godly a life as we can, then we have no right to judge anyone else! Our motive for judging should be to deliver a person from the soon coming wrath of Almighty God!


Titus 2:11-12 screams to us, "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching US that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, WE should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world."

The problem is, I believe, that we often confuse SPIRITUAL DISCERNMENT with JUDGING.

Error and sin must be discerned and exposed by true spirit led men and women. Today truth co-exists with error in such a way that the two are almost married! Multitudes adamently accept perverted doctrines of God's word and are gone astray without knowing it.

The spirit of truth in God's word commands us to reprove,rebuke and exhort in 2 Timothy 4:2..
Better to warn people than to leave them to face the coming wrath of God!
If we don't warn them, their blood will be on our hands!

Titus 2:15 demands, "These things (Godly, Biblical doctrines that can be proven with connecting scripture) speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority."

We need to remember that, yes, God is truly loving and merciful, long-suffering and not willing that any should perish...after all, God IS love! But He is also a God of RIGHTEOUSNESS, and a God of JUDGMENT.

(Saturday night...part #4. We'll look at "Being fruit inspectors", and "Fruit of the spirit." Thanks to all who are discussing this vital topic! You have given GREAT replies that I'm certain will help MANY for years to come!)

[Ashley274]

Diggin I love your topic I have been reading it. For me I feel it is right to point in a kind way the error (sin) someone may be making....but I can't say or even think IMO.. they should go to hell...To me that is the judgement many will or should avoid..That is God's call not mine...Like Jobs friends they didn't KNOW his inward relationship with God nor any of the circumstances..lfor example the Devil and Gods tests. I honestly can't KNOW if someone is saved just by their sins...we all sin here and there...we fall short of the mark. However I can know sin and sinning when I see them and know they are wrong...I can point a person to Christ if they do not know Him.... I can try to help a stumbling Christian BUT that is all I can and should do imho

[servant of Lord]

oh, how the church has used these verses to cause much -well, say not good for the people in the church-

why do I say this....well, I agree that Jesus was saying that we should not say to someone -you should not (lets just use this) smoke a cigerette cause you are the Temple of the Holy Spirit...but you have a cigerette in your own mouth...does that make sense...

I see it like this...God's word is the Truth..
Now, when I look in the mirror I see the Truth.
I see some flaws (well more then a few)
I am far from perfect.
What do I need to do?
well, exercise,eat better, etc...
but many times when we walk away from the mirror we forget what we saw...we are covered with clothes and feel comfortable cause we are covered....
But, lets say that I have a (well lets just use this one) a big bogger hanging out of my nose. My hair is clumped on one side..
I can clearly see this and what am I going to do?
Fix it...

I see this being told to us in James ..if you need some scripture to see this point of veiw..

Now, lets say this ...I go to doctor .
He finds that I have cancer ...
what will he do ?
Will he tell me the truth or lie?
should be come in the room and tell me that all is well. Have a wonderful day..although that may be what I want to hear ? or should be tell me the truth in order to try to save my life ?

The same is with the word of God...
It is like a mirror . When I read it, although the much delight and comfort it gives to my soul..It also reflects to me the things that I so much despise ...the works of flesh that I so easily fall to...I fear My Holy Father that I am to be seperated from the world and not walk in the flesh...but if I go and say the preacher tells me that all is well,,,for He says -thall shall not judge..so as many have become preachers of the social gospel..which I think results from (well from many other things too) taking this verse and not taking the other verses or even the words that Jesus said right along with this verse and cause many harm...

I may not like the truth as far as what I need to spritiually exercise or pratice in my life cause we all know that the flesh war against the spirit...but we must walk in the spirit and not fullfill the lust of the flesh..
so what is one to do ? for we all fall short of the GLory Of God...
well, we have a Advocate with the Father..Jesus Christ..and He is our clothing ...He clothes us in His righteousness..Oh, the precious love of God...He is the one who sepertates us from the world..and It is He that overcame the world and through Him He said that we can do all things..so there is no excuse or one can not say that we should sin...or that all is well with sining...Paul answered much of this in romans...

so, Judge not ....well, yes...we can not judge a man. we should love all and share with all the truth. It may not be liked. It may be hard to deliver and recieved at times..but is is light..it is like coming in dark house..all the filth be hidden till the light is turned on....But the good news is that Jesus cleans it up ...But we are not to just be lazy and say oh, well..we are to keep our vessels as honor to the Lord..which I pray oh, Lord wash me clean for my vessels has many blemishes..many flaws and many weakness...but My potter tells me that He is the author and finsher of my faith, and that no one should look upon His hands work with disgust for I am His child and it is His work that He is doing in me...so yes, we should not judge..But if we do not preach the truth or share it then we are not preaching Jesus or sharing Him with others...

I say tell it ...speak it ...tell them ....for how will they know unless they hear the word of GOd....
Judge them not....but speak the truth ..do not take this as a excuse to not share with them the gospel..so many today preach..do as you want, judge not...board is the way ...but I do not see it this way..I am leary of this kind of talk...
narrow is the way..
so, just my thoughts on this...hope i made sense..sometimes I ramble on and on..Cause you know what...I love the Lord..I will never understand why He ever loved me so...He comes for a spotless Bride..and oh, how I long to be in the number that John saw..not as a fire insurance policy , but so that I can praise Him for enternally for clothing me in His righteousness and removing my shame..And allowed me to have fellowship with a Holy RIghteous God whom now I call Abba Father...He died for my sins so that I could live..and oh, how I want to see Him and Praise HIm with all the others who come out of tribulation..though I deserve it not...no works I have done ...but only By the GIft of God can I say...I made it...Praise Him ...thanks for letting me share with you..God Bless..

[servant of Lord]

Just a quick note..I reread after posting and wanted to say this...
when I said , I do not like the truth..well I am one who believes be careful of the words i choose..there is life and death in our words..so, In no ways do I mean truth of God's word or Jesus...What I mean is that when I see some things in word of God that I struggle with..well, it is hard sometimes.....I want to be vessel of honor..and not shame..I love my Father..I desire to please Him. But, It can be a little scary sometimes when dealing with struggle and seeing it in word that ...I love God's word...just not the truth of condition of my flesh or ------whatever the correct word would be..I want to hear the truth cause that is what will save my soul..cause I do not believe that I can do whatever and pratice whatever and think all is well.....The Spirit convicts and thank GOd....HE corrects them that He loves..so I continue to ask GOd to give the strength that can only be found through Christ...and lead me away from temptations when they come...for they will come..but He has made a way out from them..okay Done..sorry...here I go again..

[th1bill]

... Ashley, you have rightly pointed out that we cannot know their hearts and others have rightly pointed out that we are to be fruit inspectors. I do not wish to get ahead of anyone here but if we notice a brother or a sister falling short but they immediately correct the matter it is reasonable to assume that they slipped and are okay.
... Discernment, however, is required and a close eye is sometimes required because there are wolves in sheep's clothing in the flock. The Pastor and the Elders of the church cannot be on the watch twenty-four hours, seven days a week for every member of the assembly, they require a heads up from the flock on many occasions. We know and understand that Christians are not the perfect mirror image of Christ, as the world expects us to be but by same token we know from studying Romans and other passages that a Christian no longer plans to sin.
... A very good example of this would be a married man that sometimes still attends our church that has a past history of adultery. When he was observed pressing the women of the church, fully against his body, with his hands on their hips, several of us went to the church leaders to insure that they knew what was going on. They also had seen his actions and arranged a meeting with him, for correction of the matter. It was not a month later that his wife learned that he was guilty of siring a "love child" with another woman from outside the church. For everyone to have stuck their heads in the sand and just ignore the behavior would have been to iolate the commands of God entirely.
... There must be a great deal of God's wisdom used when judging/discerning the actions of others but when one is observed planning to sin, it is pretty much a given that this person is not following God and we must never leave the wolves to run amuck in the flock.

[fewarechosen]

2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?


hope this helps, for this is the truth of the matter

[Jesusinmyheart]

The way i see the contradiction is (which isn't really a contradiction per se), that the first verse which says:
Mat 7:1 "Do not judge, so that you may not be judged.

And in Luke it says:
Luk 6:37 "Do not judge, and you will not be judged; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven;

And lastly in John it says:
Joh 7:24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment."

The first two verses basically say that one shouyld not judge to condemn, but as the last verse says judge with righteous judgment, which comes with compassion and mercy and grace.

In other words when we see someone dpoing something wrong we should not shout: "man you're so wicked and you should burn in hell/you will burn in hell/you belong in hell"/etc.
But rather the way i see it the approach should be first to find out why he or she did what they did to rule out any circumstances that caused them to commit what appears to be sin, point out the error as per scripture, and explain what is expected instead if this person out of ignorance/willfully sinned.

The reason i thre this first finding out what really happened in there, is because it also says to not judge by appearance.
IOW when i see someone stealing food, i should not say "hey you sinned", and let go a huge load of condemnation and then finding out this person stole to support her family. While that may not make it right, it still excuises that woman because she did it not for selfish gain, but for taking care of family.

That's how i understand these passages when looking at all of them together.

Shalom,
Tanja