Confessions of an Arminian

[Joyfilled]

I chose God the other day. God himself had nothing to do with it. I chose him out of my own free will because I have a righteous nature.

God's pretty lucky to have someone like me around. Those other poor slobs who weren't as righteous as I was to choose God are going to suffer. Oh well, they should have listened to me, so they're without excuse. Some people are just better than others, I guess.

So God will reward me for my works because they come from my own free will. In fact, I really don't need his power at all because I can accept him or reject him on my own any time I want to. So God is at my beck and call, not the other way around.

Some people call me self-righteous, but at least I'm righteous and they're not. It's my own works that will save me, my own goodness, purity and righteous nature that gets me into heaven. It feels good to be this good.

So I don't really know what this fuss about Christ's death on the cross is all about since I myself can choose to do right and wrong all by myself. I really don't even need to come to the cross for a thing because i can rely on my own will to keep me out of sins. Inf act, I don't pray much because God really can't do anything for me that i can't to for myself. It's me who leads me out of temptation and delivers me from evil. Why, I'm just about the best thing that came along in a long time.

So the only thing I pray for is that others can be as righteous as I am and decide on their own to believe in God as well. But i guess that won't do any good either since their decision has to come from themselves without any power from you. So I guess you can't really help me there either, God. Oh well, I guess it's all based on the fact that some people are righteous and others aren't.

[faithfulfriend]

I chose God the other day. God himself had nothing to do with it. I chose him out of my own free will because I have a righteous nature.

God's pretty lucky to have someone like me around. Those other poor slobs who weren't as righteous as I was to choose God are going to suffer. Oh well, they should have listened to me, so they're without excuse. Some people are just better than others, I guess.

So God will reward me for my works because they come from my own free will. In fact, I really don't need his power at all because I can accept him or reject him on my own any time I want to. So God is at my beck and call, not the other way around.

Some people call me self-righteous, but at least I'm righteous and they're not. It's my own works that will save me, my own goodness, purity and righteous nature that gets me into heaven. It feels good to be this good.

So I don't really know what this fuss about Christ's death on the cross is all about since I myself can choose to do right and wrong all by myself. I really don't even need to come to the cross for a thing because i can rely on my own will to keep me out of sins. Inf act, I don't pray much because God really can't do anything for me that i can't to for myself. It's me who leads me out of temptation and delivers me from evil. Why, I'm just about the best thing that came along in a long time.

So the only thing I pray for is that others can be as righteous as I am and decide on their own to believe in God as well. But i guess that won't do any good either since their decision has to come from themselves without any power from you. So I guess you can't really help me there either, God. Oh well, I guess it's all based on the fact that some people are righteous and others aren't.

Keep in mind that you may not completely understand the "other side" of the argument. Therefore some of your assumptions and concepts of the "other side" may not be correct or true. What one says predestination is may not be the same definition as Calvinistic predestination. What one says is righteousness may not be your definition of righteousness. What you feel is self-righteous may not be so at all.

Not trying to stir a debate, just want you to think is all.

[Athanasius]

I disagree with your straw man ad hominem ignoratium.

[Joyfilled]

Keep in mind that you may not completely understand the "other side" of the argument. Therefore some of your assumptions and concepts of the "other side" may not be correct or true. What one says predestination is may not be the same definition as Calvinistic predestination. What one says is righteousness may not be your definition of righteousness. What you feel is self-righteous may not be so at all.

Not trying to stir a debate, just want you to think is all.

Actually since I used to be Arminian, then I think I have a pretty good understanding of what they believe. But I haven't yet met any Arminians who used to be Calvinists. So once a person sees God's sovereignty and know by whose power we can do anything, they rarely, if ever revert back from that knowledge.

[Joyfilled]

I disagree with your straw man ad hominem ignoratium.

Then please explain where Arminians believe the decision to believe in God comes from;

1) Our sinful nature
2) Or the power of the Holy Spirit.

It's it's by the pwoer of the Holy Spirit then it doesn't come from man's will, but God's will. Otherwise you haven't proven that my comments are ad hominem and have thus accused me falsely.

[Brother Mark]

Actually since I used to be Arminian, then I think I have a pretty good understanding of what they believe. But I haven't yet met any Arminians who used to be Calvinists. So once a person sees God's sovereignty and know by whose power we can do anything, they rarely, if ever revert back from that knowledge.

Really? You know arminians that claim righteousness outside of Christ as your OP suggested?

You do know of course, that arminians reject the idea of righteousness outside of Christ. So your OP, is indeed, a straw man.

[Athanasius]

Then please explain where Arminians believe the decision to believe in God comes from;

1) Our sinful nature
2) Or the power of the Holy Spirit.

It's it's by the pwoer of the Holy Spirit then it doesn't come from man's will, but God's will. Otherwise you haven't proven that my comments are ad hominem and have thus accused me falsely.

Did I say I was an Arminian? I just find this entire thread to be a personal attack against all Arminians, an attack based in straw men presuppotions, and an attack, whether or not you say you were once Arminian, out of ignorance.

[BrckBrln]

While we are on the subject, is it safe to assume that Arminians believe that man has the final say in Salvation?

[Brother Mark]

While we are on the subject, is it safe to assume that Arminians believe that man has the final say in Salvation?

No. Men can will themselves all they want but only God determines when a man is saved. Only God saves a man. Yet, that does not remove man's choice from the equation for it is still "whosoever".

[Joyfilled]

Did I say I was an Arminian? I just find this entire thread to be a personal attack against all Arminians, an attack based in straw men presuppotions, and an attack, whether or not you say you were once Arminian, out of ignorance.

The Pharisees felt attacked by Jesus. But that didn't make Jesus wrong or mean that Jesus shouldn't have said what he said. So until you can prove that the Arminian belief system doesn't claim that any part of our human nature can do the right thing, then my post stands as true.

[Athanasius]

The Pharisees felt attacked by Jesus. But that didn't make Jesus wrong or mean that Jesus shouldn't have said what he said. So until you can prove that the Arminian belief system doesn't claim that any part of our human nature can do the right thing, then my post stands as true.

Are you Jesus?
And did I not just say, "when did I say I was Arminian?"

Please, pay attention to what I'm saying and get off your high horse.

[Joyfilled]

Are you Jesus?
And did I not just say, "when did I say I was Arminian?"

Please, pay attention to what I'm saying and get off your high horse.

Jesus is my role model whom the bible says we are supposed to imitate. Or don't you want me to become more Christ-like? If not, then who instead do you want me to follow?

And I never said you were Arminian in one single post. You told me that I wasn't accurately representing Arminianism. So you need to give me facts and proof that I'm not or you are falsely accusing me. So let's hear facts, not attacks. Otherwise, this is not a productive conversation.

[Brother Mark]

Jesus is my role model whom the bible says we are supposed to imitate. Or don't you want me to become more Christ-like? If not, then who instead do you want me to follow?

And I never said you were Arminian in one single post. You told me that I wasn't accurately representing Arminianism. So you need to give me facts and proof that I'm not or you are falsely accusing me. So let's hear facts, not attacks. Otherwise, this is not a productive conversation.

Oh, I don't think this conversation will be productive anyway, given the false premise of arminians thinking they are righteous before they are saved.

[Joyfilled]

Are you Jesus?
And did I not just say, "when did I say I was Arminian?"

Please, pay attention to what I'm saying and get off your high horse.

And I got news for you, Xel, I cannot do anything righteous on my own because I'm nothing but a rotten sinner who doesn't deserve God's grace. I can't even take credit for being chosen before the creation of the world.

So you are incorrect; my I am very low, not high. So your comment is nothing more than jealousy since I don't claim to be righteous in any way, shape or form. But I would hope that you'd want other Christians to have God's righteousness in them or you are not loving them properly.

[faithfulfriend]

I can't even take credit for being chosen before the creation of the world.

How can you be sure that you've been chosen? How does one know?