Jesus says no to war!

[jewel4Christ]

Uh... David was converted while killing in war. Honestly.... your grasp of Old Testament Scripture is quite lacking and that is pretty evident in much of what you have said when speaking of David in particular.

As to Noah... He was righteous. Period. We can even go as far as to say that Noah was saved... Has nothing to do with God using "carnal" man. He gave a law to Noah. If a man murders another man then man is to kill that man. That is what it says... right?

And by the way... I did quote what you said. Just like when you asked folks to answer your question and they were.

Please show scripture where it says David was indwelt while in his warring days. Don't you realise that is not written?

You are adding to the word things that are not there.

I know that is how interpretations begin.

peaceandlove,

janet

[Brother Mark]

Originally Posted by jewel4Christ
It has been shown already that once David was converted, that he dispised war, etc, and I am not going to go through all those verses again. Everyone needs to do their OWN homework, because that is the ONLY way truth is confirmed in us anyway. I cannot change your mind, and you are NOT going to change mine..on this issue.



David was CALLED as a youth. Being called is not the same as what comes later..."chosen".

Actually, scripture says he had a heart God liked as a youth. We know that when God looks on the heart of an unsaved man, it is wicked. So something in David as a youth pleased God. David's testimony from his youth concerning God was strong.

1 Sam 16:6-7

6 Then it came about when they entered, that he looked at Eliab and thought, "Surely the Lord's anointed is before Him." 7 But the Lord said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart."
NASB

1 Sam 16:13
13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah.
NASB

God puts his Spirit on His people. If he is going to use a carnal man, then he uses a carnal spirit to drive that man. That's what Habbakuk is about.

I was also called as a child. I knew from very early on that God was calling me. I was not born again/chosen, though, until I came to full repentance and faith. I was NOT saved at such a early age...Faith without obedience is not what the bible teaches....God gives His holy spirit to those whom obey HIM...through the working of repentance and beleif. ..and, you are correct, you are not going to change my mind on this...it has already been confirmed to me in my heart, and, I know you could say the same, but, one thing is for sure one of us is wrong. You believe it is me, and I believe it is you..such is life.

Yep. No doubt about it. I believe I am right with much scripture to back it up with.

How would a mere man know what citizens support their nations war machine? Are you god? Tell me Mark, can you look down into the heart and mind of a child and, or a mother whom has just been blown to pieces by the so called war machine and make that judgement that they supported it? God forbid, I could never believe that baloney.

When God told Saul to kill all the Amalekites, did he mean not to kill the women and children? What of Joshua when he was told to dispossess the land?

..and, you are correct, to know and understand more, means God expects MORE of you. That is expressly why I will not support any government on the face of this wicked earth, nor it's militaries, nor it's agenda..and, so be if they come to my door and proclaim me a heretic because I won't submit to their authority.

Well, that's your choice to make. Deal with Romans 13 any way you wish.

So, have a nice time, supporting the governments of this world, and so while doing, when they come to kill the christians, THEN you will see what I mean...and, hopefully at that time, you will open your eyes to this truth.

When they start killing Christians for being Christians then they will be doing evil. As long as they kill evil men for shedding innocent blood, I will support them for doing as God commanded them to do.

[fewarechosen]

Where is such an accidental death considered murder which is a sin vs. killing which is not a sin?

scripture says god is against those that shed innocent blood.

and that 3 year old who took the bullet to the face is not guilty of warring against you.

maybe god is saying well before you go run off to war you better think real hard about what that means.

unless then you want to argue that no man is innocent and then turn that into well then we cant really shed innocents persons blood cause none are innocent.

[ProjectPeter]

God's wrath is fulfilled not by His OWN hand, but the tool of satan.

This is why we do not agree.

God uses satan as a tool to fulfill His judgements ,and His wrath, for God cannot be tempted with evil....

Maybe we should do a thread on this, and then maybe we could understand the truth of this matter.

For example, many have stated that God is going to kill millions upon His arrival. I don't see that even written. What I do see is that God is going to use the BEAST to fulfill His wrath against the whore..(those whom deserve death)

Is the beast God?

God forbid, what the church is led to believe these days...and, btw, God does not even need to use His own hands, man is quite able to fulfill it themselves, with their weapons of mass destruction, that is going to rain down the destruction to this earth...as by fire.



peaceandlove,

janet

peaceandlove,

janet

Revelation 19:11 *¶And I saw heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True; and in righteousness He judges and wages war.
12 *And His eyes are a flame of fire, and upon His head are many diadems; and He has a name written upon Him which no one knows except Himself.
13 *And He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood; and His name is called The Word of God.
14 *And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.
15 *And from His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may smite the nations; and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
16 *And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
17 *¶And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God;
18 *in order that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great."
19 *¶And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies, assembled to make war against Him who sat upon the horse, and against His army.
20 *And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
21 *And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat upon the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

That ain't the devil John is writing about eh?

[LaidDownHisLIfe]

if i have offended anyone, i apologise!
it is not my intention to offend anyone.
i can only speak the truth as i know it, and if this forum does not allow this this may be my last post.

i say in all sincerity.
if you are killing people, this is not the will of God.
if that is offencive, i apologise.

shalom/peace

[Brother Mark]

Please show scripture where it says David was indwelt while in his warring days. Don't you realise that is not written?

You are adding to the word things that are not there.

I know that is how interpretations begin.

Saul was saved before he was king and then God sent him to war.

1 Sam 10:9-11

9 Then it happened when he turned his back to leave Samuel, God changed his heart; and all those signs came about on that day. 10 When they came to the hill there, behold, a group of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him mightily, so that he prophesied among them.
NASB

Later, Saul was commanded to fight a war and destroy an entire nation. When he disobeyed, God took the kingdom away from him for his disobedience. He then chose a man after his own heart that would destroy the enemy... King David.

[LaidDownHisLIfe]

a simple question?

yes
or
no

[Slug1]

if i have offended anyone, i apologise!
it is not my intention to offend anyone.
i can only speak the truth as i know it, and if this forum does not allow this this may be my last post.

i say in all sincerity.
if you are killing people, this is not the will of God.
if that is offencive, i apologise.

shalom/peace

I'm not offended at all

Just that many Christians are not obedient when God wants them to be a soldier or a policeman because of debates as this. They have it driven into them that any killing is a sin when if it was, then why all the killing in the Bible ordered by God? God cannot will a person to do something that is a sin. Killing is not a sin, murder is.

[Brother Mark]

a simple question?

yes
or
no

Yep. Will you be obedient to Romans 13? Yes or no? Or God's command to Noah? I could go on an on.

No matter how much we want it to be different, God still gave government the sword of his wrath to execute his vengeance upon evil men.

[jewel4Christ]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jewel4Christ
Originally Posted by jewel4Christ
It has been shown already that once David was converted, that he dispised war, etc, and I am not going to go through all those verses again. Everyone needs to do their OWN homework, because that is the ONLY way truth is confirmed in us anyway. I cannot change your mind, and you are NOT going to change mine..on this issue.



David was CALLED as a youth. Being called is not the same as what comes later..."chosen".

Actually, scripture says he had a heart God liked as a youth. We know that when God looks on the heart of an unsaved man, it is wicked. So something in David as a youth pleased God. David's testimony from his youth concerning God was strong.

1 Sam 16:6-7

6 Then it came about when they entered, that he looked at Eliab and thought, "Surely the Lord's anointed is before Him." 7 But the Lord said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart."
NASB

1 Sam 16:13
13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the Lord came mightily upon David from that day forward. And Samuel arose and went to Ramah.
NASB

God puts his Spirit on His people. If he is going to use a carnal man, then he uses a carnal spirit to drive that man. That's what Habbakuk is about.

I agree, he was called as from a child. Did you read my post in context?

Chosen, or born again does not come until one truly repents and is converted, which comes much later in life.



Quote:
I was also called as a child. I knew from very early on that God was calling me. I was not born again/chosen, though, until I came to full repentance and faith. I was NOT saved at such a early age...Faith without obedience is not what the bible teaches....God gives His holy spirit to those whom obey HIM...through the working of repentance and beleif. ..and, you are correct, you are not going to change my mind on this...it has already been confirmed to me in my heart, and, I know you could say the same, but, one thing is for sure one of us is wrong. You believe it is me, and I believe it is you..such is life.

Yep. No doubt about it. I believe I am right with much scripture to back it up with.

yeah, your interpretation of it, but I find many contradictions, and where there is contradiction, there is not truth.

You still never answered my questions, too.

How can you think it is ok to go and kill innocent people, through man's warfare, while you know it is an abomination to God.

Don't say that it is not done, because it is a fact, and even christians are even NOW being killed through these wars. Have you read the voice of the martyrs where christians daily die in the wars of men?..even in the Iraq war, for example. Do not pull the blinders over your eyes, and try to hide the truth here.


Quote:
How would a mere man know what citizens support their nations war machine? Are you god? Tell me Mark, can you look down into the heart and mind of a child and, or a mother whom has just been blown to pieces by the so called war machine and make that judgement that they supported it? God forbid, I could never believe that baloney.

When God told Saul to kill all the Amalekites, did he mean not to kill the women and children? What of Joshua when he was told to dispossess the land?

Again, you are not looking at this from the understanding that what occurred during that time, God had in place for His own purposes for that time. Let me ask you this, why did God tell one of the patriarch's to kill his own son, but, before he did, He stopped him? Don't you see these things are written to teach us something?

God never killed an innocent, and never will. MEN DO and HAVE...and, when you add thoughts that are not even written to your stance it persuades me to put up a red flag.

Quote:
..and, you are correct, to know and understand more, means God expects MORE of you. That is expressly why I will not support any government on the face of this wicked earth, nor it's militaries, nor it's agenda..and, so be if they come to my door and proclaim me a heretic because I won't submit to their authority.

Well, that's your choice to make. Deal with Romans 13 any way you wish.

In spiritual issues, we are to obey God rather than men, that too is written, and the fact is, shedding innocent blood is a SPIRITUAL thing. Whether you want to admit it or not. I will obey GOD rather than men, in that case.

Wars today shed innocent blood. Those whom think otherwise are self diluded.

PERIOD.
Quote:
So, have a nice time, supporting the governments of this world, and so while doing, when they come to kill the christians, THEN you will see what I mean...and, hopefully at that time, you will open your eyes to this truth.

When they start killing Christians for being Christians then they will be doing evil. As long as they kill evil men for shedding innocent blood, I will support them for doing as God commanded them to do.

So, if a christian is killed now, as is occurring over and over everyday, they are not among the innocents, just because of your theory that they are not being killed because they are a christian, which btw, is NOT even written.. ..and, remember my words are for those whom do see the truth of this matter.

peaceandlove,

janet

[Buck shot]

Killing is not a sin, murder is.

If Jesus says no to war why will He lead His army from the back of a white horse?


Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

[LaidDownHisLIfe]

Yep. Will you be obedient to Romans 13? Yes or no? Or God's command to Noah? I could go on an on.

No matter how much we want it to be different, God still gave government the sword of his wrath to execute his vengeance upon evil men.

Rom12 tells us if our ememy is thirsty, give him to drink
if he is hungry, give him to eat.
do not repay eveil with evil.

the government in war does not tell you what Rom 12 tells you.

i will obey God first[acts5:29]

if the government tells me, drive on the right, i will obey.

if the government tells me, kill that enemy, i will not, because it is against His command to love, feed, give to drink, and not to repay evil with evil.

ANYONE WHO FIGHTS A PHYSICAL WAR IS NOT OBEYING CHRIST

[fewarechosen]

16Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
17Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.


for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head, that is how one wages war.

so when we went hunting terrorists with armies --we should have just set up food and drink stations instead of military bases. those coals would be far worse than any man made bomb. we should have showed them how to live by example -- what it means to forgive and what it means to have compassion --we should have preached peace not war. but we said hey we are defending ourselves, so we must kill them. and there in is the error.

overcome evil with good

[ProjectPeter]

Okay folks... I know this is a subject that brings out the passion. But chill out about ten notches.

[jewel4Christ]

Revelation 19:11 *¶And I saw heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True; and in righteousness He judges and wages war.
12 *And His eyes are a flame of fire, and upon His head are many diadems; and He has a name written upon Him which no one knows except Himself.
13 *And He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood; and His name is called The Word of God.
14 *And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.
15 *And from His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may smite the nations; and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
16 *And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
17 *¶And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God;
18 *in order that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great."
19 *¶And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies, assembled to make war against Him who sat upon the horse, and against His army.
20 *And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
21 *And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat upon the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

That ain't the devil John is writing about eh?

You do realise that the "sword" here is not speaking of a literal, sword?

The sword of Jesus is the word of God, and, it is sharper than any two edged sword of man.

It will judge each man's heart...that too, is written.

God does NOT kill...every man that is destroyed at that time, will be destroyed by what was in their own hearts, by the word of God...for it is what judges all.

Stop making Him out to be some type of human sinner!..whirling some human sword to put people to death. We all reap what we sow..those whom pick up the earthly sword, will die by the earthly sword, and those whom refuse to repent, will die by the heavenly one..God's written WORD, will judge every man's heart whether they are good or bad.

They reap what they themselves sow....God does NOT actually put a physical sword through them.

His warfare is NOT carnal. Have you read that?


peaceandlove,

janet

peaceandlove,

janet