Jesus says no to war!

[jewel4Christ]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jewel4Christ
Ok, I agree with you on this. That is my whole point. We live in a time where what God HAS ordained for good, man has made evil out of it...or do you disagree, and you have been asked over and over, will you STILL submit to this government, when it is shown to be only evil?

They are doing a pretty good job of keeping crime low in my neighborhood and a decent job on the war on terror and yes, I continue to submit to them. They are not only evil. The government is still doing a lot of good in this country and the world.

and, this is not, nor never was my arguement...and, that has been spoken many times...(the part in bold), now the rest of your quote, I disagree with. Wars that kill innocent people are not of god, especially when christians are in the mix.

Is it alright IF I disagree with you and am not looked upon by others as somehow having just my own interpretation?

You and I disagree. We have already come to that conclusion...why do you keep posting the same things over and over..just so you can have the last say? Ok, fine..I will let you, when you respond to this post, lol...(that does not mean I won't answer others in this thread, lol)


Quote:
I believe it is ONLY EVIL NOW....because NO longer does it stand for justice of the innocent, etc....it is rotten at the core.

Oh, it has it's issues. And it's getting worse. But it's not only evil. It's still against the law to murder, steal, etc. They are also protecting me from evil men that would destroy me as God has commanded them to do. So it's not only evil. They still work some good.

If your trust was totally in God to keep you from being destroyed by what you call these enemies, you would not even NEED man made governments to do so...and, that is what is wrong with your interpretation, in mho..it teaches us to take our eyes off of Christ, and place them in mere men. If the Lord wants me to live to be 100 I will, it matters little what any other government or evil man could think to do with me...don't you see that?...why do you keep skirting the REAL issues?

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You can deny it, It is the facts.

Hmmm. I guess tsunami aid is evil. Who knew?

once again, you try to make me look bad, with your words of sarcasm, and I am the one called on it...truly sad.

I have told you over and over that God does use governments to do good...evil is not good, though.
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So, you gonna go do their bidding anyway?

Till they tell me to sin.

Fair enough. My conscience could not support them now, because I know the outcome of placing trust in weapons and guns, and money and greed. It leads to death.

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Just when they, (human governments) say, or proclaim "peace and safety" sudden destruction is coming.

Why?

Because, as the governments of this world are nothing but evil, they do things from that motive.

Jesus is not fooled.

..and, neither am I.

Oh, some governments are completely evil. I would say the previous government in Iraq fit that bill pretty good. A strong case could be made for the Soviet Union under Stalin and forward till the cold war shot it down. Thank God for men like Reagan that would face up to evil in the world!

sounds like the pot calling the kettle black, in mho. All nations are wicked, the bible states that...especially in this day and age, where satan has so blinded the eyes of even most in the church.

There are still good governments in the world. They do good things. Hopefully, they will continue to do as God commanded concerning evil men. However, I know they won't. One day, men will be so opposed to war and capital punishment, that evil men will run rampant on the planet as they did in Noah's day. Then God will come and set up his own government again. We are fast approaching a time when neither Christian nor infidel has the stomach for government to do as God commanded. Then evil will have it's way.

Jesus is coming to put an end to man's rule. Man's rule was allowed from the beginning because evil man's heart WANTED IT THAT way. Have you read that?

Just curious.

I don't put the cart before the horse..the horse is dead.

Stop beating it.

peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

Yep. Had Saddam listened to the words of Christ, perhaps he would have surrendered and we would all be better off. Or the criminal, who is his own king, should he surrender to the will of the government concerning stealing could stay free a while longer.

....and, if Bush had listened to the words of Christ, he could of been used to be a light to Saddam, and maybe Saddam would of been convicted and repented. Yet, that is not what happened is it.

Long story short, both are doing the bidding of the enemy.

People have forgotten the power of the gospel.

We were called to love our enemies, and to bring light unto them, through the gospel, not to put bombs up their noses.

peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

Are you sure about that God changed comment? You want to stick with that? You may want to think that through because there will be some scripture coming soon to refute it.

I would say she means that God has changed the way He deals with carnal nations and His spiritual one.

...but, that has already been beaten to death, too.....

peaceandlove,

janet

[Brother Mark]

Is it alright IF I disagree with you and am not looked upon by others as somehow having just my own interpretation?

Have you not suggested that others have their own interpretation in this thread? Be that as it may, if you feel it is sin to do something, better to not do it! For whatever is not of faith is sin.

You and I disagree. We have already come to that conclusion...why do you keep posting the same things over and over..just so you can have the last say? Ok, fine..I will let you, when you respond to this post, lol...(that does not mean I won't answer others in this thread, lol)

It's not about the last word. I have my reasons. Many in this thread post similar things. That's why the answers are responded in similar ways.

If your trust was totally in God to keep you from being destroyed by what you call these enemies, you would not even man made governments to do so...and, that is what is wrong with your interpretation, in mho..it teaches us to take our eyes off of Christ, and place them in mere men. If the Lord wants me to live to be 100 I will, it matters little what any other government or evil man could think to do with me...don't you see that?

No see, that's where we disagree big time. My trust is totally in God. Completely. And he said that government was part of his solution for evil men. He implemented it. To go against government is to go against that which God ordained. So, by submitting to government's rule and authority I am trusting completely in Him and doing his will.

I have told you over and over that God does use governments to do good...evil is not good, though.

OK. We can agree to that then. God does do good things through government.

Fair enough. My conscience could not support them now, because I know the outcome of placing trust in weapons and guns, and money and greed. It leads to death.

Yep. But when God says take up a sword, it is God we trust in and not man. When David went to battle with Goliath, he did not take a sword, but he did take a sling. He had a weapon and used it. Taking up a weapon does not mean one doesn't have faith. David and Goliath illustrates that very well.

sounds like the pot calling the kettle black, in mho. All nations are wicked, the bible states that...especially in this day and age, where satan has so blinded the eyes of even most in the church.

All men that do not know Jesus are wicked. Government is not wicked. It is the men in government that make it evil.

Jesus is coming to put an end to man's rule. Man's rule was allowed from the beginning because evil man's heart WANTED IT THAT way. Have you read that?

Yep. One reason he gave government was to contain evil. Man's heart needs God or society to keep it in check. If it is only society that does so, he will go to hell. If he submits to God and gets a new heart, then he can go to heaven.

Just curious.

I don't put the cart before the horse..the horse is dead.

Stop beating it.

It sure seems alive to me. That's why I keep posting.

[Brother Mark]

....and, if Bush had listened to the words of Christ, he could of been used to be a light to Saddam, and maybe Saddam would of been convicted and repented. Yet, that is not what happened is it.

Long story short, both are doing the bidding of the enemy.

People have forgotten the power of the gospel.

We were called to love our enemies, and to bring light unto them, through the gospel, not to put bombs up their noses.

Nope. Both aren't. David put a stone in the head of Goliath. It sure wasn't Satan that bid him do it.

[theleast]

No see, that's where we disagree big time. My trust is totally in God. Completely. And he said that government was part of his solution for evil men. He implemented it. To go against government is to go against that which God ordained. So, by submitting to government's rule and authority I am trusting completely in Him and doing his will.

Yep. But when God says take up a sword, it is God we trust in and not man. When David went to battle with Goliath, he did not take a sword, but he did take a sling. He had a weapon and used it. Taking up a weapon does not mean one doesn't have faith. David and Goliath illustrates that very well.

God gave man commandments. Man screwed that up thus the broken tablets.

God gave man law. Man screwed that up so Christ was sent.

God gave man grace. And yet he still has to send a judgement because man didn't take what was freely given.

You expect me to believe that man didn't screw up government?

Also the sword that God wants you to take up isn't metal. It is the Word.

[ProDeo]

Once David was converted, he despised the ways of this world, hated wars, and why men go that route, or do you deny those verses, too?

Janet, can you quote where Scripture says David despised war?

Not that I think it's relevant regarding topic because men's feelings are subordinate to God's orders. And about David's conversion, do you mean the moment he started to hate war? If so that's not a valid point, right? But let Scripture speak....

Also could you show me the case where Israel went to war without seeking the Lord first and severely lost? I think this is a much stronger point to support your case.

Thanks,

Ed

[Brother Mark]

Also could you show me the case where Israel went to war without seeking the Lord first and severely lost? I think this is a much stronger point to support your case.

Thanks,

Ed

Hi Ed. Israel has went to war and lost with God's approval too. That happened in Judges. It was a civil war where he told them to go and fight the tribe of Benjamen. I think the first time, they went to war without consulting God and lost. The second time they went at the word of God and lost. The third time they went to war at the word of God and won.

[fewarechosen]

for whoever is reading this besides the people posting in it, remember this ---they are giving all kinds of examples of people on earth being told to go to war.
now christ is our example and his every action was perfect. no one else in scripture can even compare. so follow christs example --not davids not moses not joshua -- but christs

he didnt lift a sword to man or wage war at all and we do no error at all to follow his example.

it is by far harder to lay down ones life than to take anothers

love your neighbor as yourself --- do you drop bombs on yourself ?

[jewel4Christ]

Ok Mark,

I can understand why you support human governments, you do so by your faith. I am ok with that...because I am not your judge on the matter.

Nope. Both aren't. David put a stone in the head of Goliath. It sure wasn't Satan that bid him do it.

Here is where we part.

David did NOT kill innocents. Bush's war did...and, does, and continues to do so.

I cannot support it.

I cannot support evil.

peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

God gave man commandments. Man screwed that up thus the broken tablets.

God gave man law. Man screwed that up so Christ was sent.

God gave man grace. And yet he still has to send a judgement because man didn't take what was freely given.

You expect me to believe that man didn't screw up government?

Also the sword that God wants you to take up isn't metal. It is the Word.

Amen...THANKS for that.

peaceandlove,

janet

[pinky]

In reading through this thread I have to say I that it causes me grief to see Christians who support war.


NOWHERE does Christ call us to kill our enemies........or retaliate against them.......or to fear them. NOWHERE.

Why should I trust corrupt politicians to tell me who THEY want me to believe the enemy is?

Christ already told me..............and He told me how to respond to them.

Our weapons of war are NOT CARNAL.

2Cr 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;



Nor does our warfare (spiritual) leave innocent dead children in its wake.

Peace in the Name of the Prince of Peace........Jesus Christ the LIFE GIVER.
pinky

[jewel4Christ]

for whoever is reading this besides the people posting in it, remember this ---they are giving all kinds of examples of people on earth being told to go to war.
now christ is our example and his every action was perfect. no one else in scripture can even compare. so follow christs example --not davids not moses not joshua -- but christs

he didnt lift a sword to man or wage war at all and we do no error at all to follow his example.

it is by far harder to lay down ones life than to take anothers

love your neighbor as yourself --- do you drop bombs on yourself ?

AMEN...when I read the part in bold, I had to laugh a bit....because I have often put my foot in my mouth...and, gagged on my own words.

That is a different story, altogether, though, eh?


peaceandlove,

janet

[fewarechosen]

In reading through this thread I have to say I that it causes me grief to see Christians who support war.


NOWHERE does Christ call us to kill our enemies........or retaliate against them.......or to fear them. NOWHERE.

Why should I trust corrupt politicians to tell me who THEY want me to believe the enemy is?

Christ already told me..............and He told me how to respond to them.

Our weapons of war are NOT CARNAL.

2Cr 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;



Nor does our warfare (spiritual) leave innocent dead children in its wake.

Peace in the Name of the Prince of Peace........Jesus Christ the LIFE GIVER.
pinky

wow good scripture quote

[Brother Mark]

Here is where we part.

David did NOT kill innocents. Bush's war did...and, does, and continues to do so.

This is where your position confuses me. For instance, who are you calling innocent? What makes them innocent? Is killing innocents wrong? Murder surely is.

Like the example I gave earlier of Saul when he was commanded to kill ALL of the Amalekites. Were any of them innocent? If so, why? What is different about them and nations today?

When the walls of Jericho fell, babies died. Were those babies "innocents" or was Joshua sinful for killing them? Perhaps they were innocent but Joshua was not guilty of sin when he killed them. Nor was Saul sinful when he killed the children of Amalek.

Now, do I propose we go wipe out nations. Nope. Perhaps more on that later. But the thing about Saul and Joshua not killing innocents is astounding. For by most peoples definition of innocent, they most certainly did.