Jesus says no to war!

[RoadWarrior]

...

The problem here however, is that the usa also worships a god of their own..their own belly.

IF they are not christians. There is no difference between that idol, and the god of the muslims.

What all need is JESUS.

peaceandlove, janet

There is a difference, IMO. One is the flesh, and the other is the devil.

[Slug1]

Hi,

First of all, I admire you. Just by reading your words, I can tell that you have a true heart for the Lord. It is just that I believe God took a evil situation, and worked it for good..through YOU.

That does not mean that the war was NOT a evil situation, it means it was an evil situation.


God takes evil, and works good in it....and, that is what I believe He did through you.



The problem here however, is that the usa also worships a god of their own..their own belly.

IF they are not christians. There is no difference between that idol, and the god of the muslims.

What all need is JESUS.

peaceandlove, janet

You're missing the point that I started with post #866. God placed me on a path to be a warrior. A soldier. A Christian who killed in the line of duty because my purpose was ordained by God to do this.

Now I offer support and understanding to other Christian's who are also placed on a path as warriors.

This is the purpose I serve as well as other thus the ministry God entrusted me with, while others serve on different paths that God has placed them on and trusts them to do His will.

[pinky]

Hi Pinky,



Yes I can. It deserves a whole new thread about politics but in general one can say that nowadays US (sadly) is way off the principles of the Founding Fathers.

Let me now warn you in the most solemn manner. Observe good faith and justice toward all nations. Cultivate peace and harmony with all. The Nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest.
-— President George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796



In fact Afghanistan did attack US on 9/11. The bin Laden guy had hijacked the whole country. And the US has been more then patience asking for the extradition of bin Laden and the Mullah Omar guy of the Taliban. When they refused the war started.

Iraq is another matter, never ever did Iraq threaten the US, how could Iraq ever do that with its rusty army? Remember the daily bombings over 10+ years because of the no-fly zones. What the US did was just the removal of a local dictator but promoted under total different and false pretenses and that on the sentiments of 9/11 to get its citizens behind this war. Without 9/11 there never would have been an Iraqi war.

Sorry if that offends Americans. But it isn't personal, it criticism on government. I feel strongly about it. But then this thread is a about war.



Good point Pinky.

Ed

Hi Ed.

I agree with you on several things you said. Not so much on the Afghani or Bin Laden thing though, but like you said, that would be a whole thread in itself focusing on the politics.

I find that almost all my Christian friends who are supportive of this war are also American.........and seem to genuinely and sincerely believe that their country holds the moral high ground.

I can't agree with this premise at all.

God bless you,
pinky



And to Slug,

I can see that you and I do not agree at all on the politics involved in this war and the real reasons behind it. Probably for another thread like Rebel mentioned.

I see a whole lot of human reasoning given in support of war throughout this thread, and some even seem to think that they are the goods guys waging war on behalf of Christ somehow. Yet the NT support for this view has been very weak, imho, and seems to hinge on a couple of verses in which the implied context is debatable.


The scriptural case for Christ wanting us to be nonviolent, peaceful, meek, longsuffering, forgiving of trespasses, suffering servants who are harmless as doves and gentle as lambs....... is overwhelming......... and contradicts the pro-war arguments that have been presented thus far.


Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.



God bless

[Slug1]

And to Slug,

I can see that you and I do not agree at all on the politics involved in this war and the real reasons behind it. Probably for another thread like Rebel mentioned.

If you spent a moment on the ground in Iraq I bet you'd change your politics. Especially when you played soccer with Iraqi children and they're thanking you for freeing them from Saddam.

[quiet dove]

I find that almost all my Christian friends who are supportive of this war are also American.........and seem to genuinely and sincerely believe that their country holds the moral high ground.

I can't agree with this premise at all.

God bless you,
pinky

It is not "moral high ground" to care about others enough that your sons and daughters would fight and die to help those who cannot help themselves.

[pinky]

It is not "moral high ground" to care about others enough that your sons and daughters would fight and die to help those who cannot help themselves.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...... but..... helping the needy and oppressed has nothing to do with the real reasons this war is being waged.

America should be more concerned with curing the moral degenerate cancer that is infecting her own nation, politically and culturally and spiritually, before she worry too much about being the international military police force of so called 'righteousness'.


A couple of suggested subjects to do some research on is Operation Northwoods and PNAC- Project for a New American Century.......fer starters anyhow.


And Yes, it IS moral high ground when you insinuate that your country is the 'good clay' destroying the 'bad'. Still wondering if you can give a verse for that btw.........and the thing you said about Jesus?

[chal]

Right. I agree. But it is worth asking if Jesus was speaking to a principle here or only taxes?

See, in situations like this, I have to ask myself what God knows and what He knows we know. Since God does not spell everything out for us. Intentionally I think.

So I ask questions. Were taxes the only thing Caesar required? If so, then surely that was the only thing Jesus was speaking to. But if not, then isn't Jesus' statement ambiguous? In spite of the context?

What did Jesus know? He knew what all that Caesar required. Might Jesus have been more specific then?

It is worth being cautious and better left in the end sometimes to simply not be sure than to think and make the claim it is so.

But to be sure, much of what we ae to understand - God never says. Sometimes, often I believe it is as much what God does not say as it is what He does say in a passage of scripture that we are to understand.

But I think your response shows wisdom.

The question is certainly valid and anyone who desires to learn concerning this topic would be served by considering it at length.

I found a Wikipedia page (google "give unto Caesar, wikipedia" and it will be the first entry) that presents various viewpoints of how "render unto Caesar," has been historically interpreted, but only skimmed over the part about the Quaker's perspective so far. I agree that the "silent pauses," in scripture can speak to us , but I find it helpful to consider a wide range of perspectives in these matters.

This is an issue that has been debated since before there was dirt (or at least before dirt became socially acceptable) and I suppose that the answer may not be so black and white as we tend to think at times. Maybe, there is no blanket rule of thumb and it requires discernment in each instance. That could be an explanation of the "silently spoken notes," that we sometimes hear.

[jewel4Christ]

There is a difference, IMO. One is the flesh, and the other is the devil.

I don't agree. The devil works in the flesh of ALL men.

You and I included, even after we are saved...but, that is why we war against it, and, are told to submit to the spirit, from day to day and die to the flesh likewise, from day to day....



peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

You're missing the point that I started with post #866. God placed me on a path to be a warrior. A soldier. A Christian who killed in the line of duty because my purpose was ordained by God to do this.

Now I offer support and understanding to other Christian's who are also placed on a path as warriors.

This is the purpose I serve as well as other thus the ministry God entrusted me with, while others serve on different paths that God has placed them on and trusts them to do His will.

I believe that God allows all of us to choose what paths we take, but, YES, once we are in them, He does use everything in our lives to bring glory to His name.

I see a big difference between saying that God put you on that path, and that you chose that path...just like any other christian, whom would choose to do something contrary to the will of God, there is no difference.

This is why when David learned this, he repented of his choice of warring with men in the flesh.

That does not mean, however that God was NOT with him while he was in that "place", for He very much was, but He was also with him to that place where he would realise how vain that way of life is.

God may very well use you for THAT purpose, someday, to be a light to those whom have broken by the rampages of war.

So, I would consider that, also...but, in all things, we must follow our own heart/conscience.

I am not against anyone....as some like to make me look.....

peaceandlove,

janet

[Brother Mark]

I believe that God allows all of us to choose what paths we take, but, YES, once we are in them, He does use everything in our lives to bring glory to His name.

God himself will even choose those paths for us. Sometimes we reject them. God chose for Barak to be a man of war and lead his people. But Barak would only follow Debra, who was the anointed of God into war. God also chose for Samson to be a man of war and of course, he also led David and Joshua into war.

I see a big difference between saying that God put you on that path, and that you chose that path...just like any other christian, whom would choose to do something contrary to the will of God, there is no difference.

God chose many to be warriors including Jesus (in Rev and in the OT) Samson, David, Joshua, Caleb and many others. He did it then and so, he does it today.

This is why when David learned this, he repented of his choice of warring with men in the flesh.

[jewel4Christ]

If you spent a moment on the ground in Iraq I bet you'd change your politics. Especially when you played soccer with Iraqi children and they're thanking you for freeing them from Saddam.

I believe the root of this way of thinking is incorrect.

It is JESUS whom can free anyone from the evils of this world, and when he does, he places in that persons heart to love even their enemies, and not just those whom would appear to need physical freedom.

Jesus never promised ANY of His people PHYSICAL freedom, and in fact, HE DID PROMISE that we would NOT have it in this world.

We need to look at things from His perspective, in mho.

peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...... but..... helping the needy and oppressed has nothing to do with the real reasons this war is being waged.

America should be more concerned with curing the moral degenerate cancer that is infecting her own nation, politically and culturally and spiritually, before she worry too much about being the international military police force of so called 'righteousness'.


A couple of suggested subjects to do some research on is Operation Northwoods and PNAC- Project for a New American Century.......fer starters anyhow.


And Yes, it IS moral high ground when you insinuate that your country is the 'good clay' destroying the 'bad'. Still wondering if you can give a verse for that btw.........and the thing you said about Jesus?

Exactly, I believe this mindset that the usa is MORE righteouss than other nations comes from a heart of pride...

It causes one to not see things as they REALLY are.

All nations are evil in the sight of God.

He only has one He considers "righteouss", HIS.

peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

The question is certainly valid and anyone who desires to learn concerning this topic would be served by considering it at length.

I found a Wikipedia page (google "give unto Caesar, wikipedia" and it will be the first entry) that presents various viewpoints of how "render unto Caesar," has been historically interpreted, but only skimmed over the part about the Quaker's perspective so far. I agree that the "silent pauses," in scripture can speak to us , but I find it helpful to consider a wide range of perspectives in these matters.

This is an issue that has been debated since before there was dirt (or at least before dirt became socially acceptable) and I suppose that the answer may not be so black and white as we tend to think at times. Maybe, there is no blanket rule of thumb and it requires discernment in each instance. That could be an explanation of the "silently spoken notes," that we sometimes hear.

The bible answers this simply.

That which goes against the law of "love" is out of the will of God.

Love does not harm his/her neighbor...we do not need commentaries to tell us what He has already explained, very simply....mho.

peaceandlove,

janet

[Slug1]

I believe the root of this way of thinking is incorrect.

I'm not surprised

It is JESUS whom can free anyone from the evils of this world, and when he does, he places in that persons heart to love even their enemies, and not just those whom would appear to need physical freedom.

That is correct and Jesus uses military forces to get it started (Romans 13:4)

Jesus never promised ANY of His people PHYSICAL freedom, and in fact, HE DID PROMISE that we would NOT have it in this world.

But God will answer prayers and all the people I spoke to in Iraq prayed for the freedom of the oppression of Saddam, there are a few Christian Iraqis. Took 9/11 to get us off our butts to finally go on the offense and be in God's will as He needed us to do the job and answer their prayers.

We need to look at things from His perspective, in mho.

I am, that is why I served as a soldier 110% cause I was serving God on the path He set me on.

[Brother Mark]

The bible answers this simply.

That which goes against the law of "love" is out of the will of God.

Love does not harm his/her neighbor...we do not need commentaries to tell us what He has already explained, very simply....mho.

peaceandlove,

janet

Does God love folks he sends to hell? Does hell harm them?