But pay attention to the entire counsel of God. David, a man of war, did not reap peace. But even still... David was a man after God's own heart. Why?Originally Posted by jewel4Christ
2 Peter 1:1-11 Live it!
But pay attention to the entire counsel of God. David, a man of war, did not reap peace. But even still... David was a man after God's own heart. Why?
Visit our new website! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.
A.W. Tozer said, "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”
GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!
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please read matt5 and luke 6.
THERE HAS BEEN A CHANGE.
no more eye4 an eye,
NO MORE!!!!!
2 Peter 1:1-11 Live it!
Really? So when Jesus returns... what happens? Ever read Revelation and that whole thing about blood and destruction? Is Jesus then a sinner at that point?
Visit our new website! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.
A.W. Tozer said, "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”
GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!
Even though LaidDownHisLIfe isn't making a good argument (shows no ability to discuss the difference b/w individual and corporation, kingdom of God vs. kingdoms of world, etc), we should make mention of the fact that Christian pacifism is a legitimate position. There are some good arguments for Christians to NOT participate in the wars of the nations they are citizens of. LaidDownHisLIfe would have been far better off by attacking the blending of american and christian ideals that many evangelics do, in fact, blend with unfortunate results.
Whether to participate in war is between an individual and God. If they think by not fighting is obedience to God, then we have no place casting a stumbling block before them, and vice versa. We are one in Christ, and should strive to see no more than Christ crucified in each other.
When we read our bibles, remember it in the Jewish context. Jesus was born and raised a Jew, in fact He is the One who gave the Law to Moses in the first place.
The eye for eye, tooth for tooth, burning for burning command was in the context of corporate judicial punishment, Judged by appointed Judges and witnessed by at least two witnesses who were scrutinized for their honesty and equity.
In the 1st century, the Jews had perverted this command into individual vigilantism - people were applying this ruling over insignificant feuds, and using it out of context for vengence on their brothers.
This was not what was taught through Moses, and Jesus made it known. In this teaching, He also brought the concept inside, to the heart by teaching how much better is it to settle with your brother than squabble in the courts. He put these things and others on our hearts, in fullfillment of Jer 31:31-33.
God does not change.
As righteous as Christ.
That all depends on how you define pacifism. God does call for violence in some situations. How would you define "christian" pacifism?
"May the Lamb that was slain receive the just reward for His sufferings." A quote by Moravian missionary that sold himself (along with a friend) into slavery to reach those that the slave owner prevented from hearing the gospel.
May I live for Him and not for me.
I personally agree with David Guzik's commentary on the matter. God did NOT set out to kill anyone.
In fact, He made a way for the eqyption army to turn around and be spared.
It was their own acts that led to their death...and, I will put my thoughts in ( ) so, as to add my own opinions. Of course, that does not mean that anyone has to agree with me, or David Guzik..but, I do not see God killing ANYONE...
Here is how David Guzik states it:
3. (10-12) The response of the children of Israel.
a. They were very afraid: this made sense; according to all outward observation, Israel was in serious trouble with Pharaoh's armies on one side and the Red Sea on the other, with no chance for escape.
i. God led Israel right into a cul-de-sac. There was no was of escape except the way they had come in, and the Egyptian army had that covered.
(God led the Israelites into this culdesac for a reason. His aim was to hopefully twart the actions of the egyptions. No where does it actually say in the account that God killed anyone...that comes only from the added thoughts of men..in mho.)
b. Therefore, God instructed Moses to lead Israel in a way that looked confused, so Pharaoh would believe They are bewildered by the land, and come to strike Israel.
(or likewise, turn around and go back where they came from. NO WHERE does it read that God had a motive to cause them to enter into the water that killed them. Who are we to claim the mind of God on this matter? )
2. (19-20) God neutralizes the Egyptian army with the fire.
a. The pillar of fire mentioned in 13:21-22 is positioned as a barrier between the attacking Egyptians and the children of Israel; God will protect Israel from the Egyptian attack.
b. We have little idea how much God does to protect us from attack; we believe ourselves to be overwhelmed in battle right now, but just don't know what it would be like if the Lord pulled back His protection.
c. The Egyptians didn't know it, but the same pillar of fire that prevented them from pursuing the children of Israel was also protecting their lives. If they would have submitted to the Lord who was blocking their way with His presence, they would have been spared.
(I believe that they reaped what they sowed, but God gave them every OPPERTUNITY to turn back....because they did not turn back, they were killed. I don't believe it was in Gods MOTIVES, for He cannot be even tempted with evil. Others will disagree, and that is fine. We all must go with out own conscience on these things, but the very fact that the Lord COMMANDS we beat our swords into pruning hooks, when we come into relationship with Him, via the NEW covenant explains to me that He is NOT the Author of killing, and death, through worldly wars. )
peaceandlove,
janet
As righteous as Christ.
But that's not the point. Of course he didn't set out from the beginning to kill folks. But the question is, did he kill?
Who killed Pharaoh and his army? God did it directly. Who killed Korah? It was God that did that with no help from anyone else. He did it himself.
And who will lead the armies in Revelation? It will be Jesus himself. God is no anti-war pacifist as many make him out to be. He actually commanded Saul to go and destroy an entire nation. Clearly, God would not command a man to sin.
"May the Lamb that was slain receive the just reward for His sufferings." A quote by Moravian missionary that sold himself (along with a friend) into slavery to reach those that the slave owner prevented from hearing the gospel.
May I live for Him and not for me.
..and, the walls came tumbling down, without one arrow being thrown.
So, I fail to see your point...those walls were put down by faith, not carnal warfare.
peaceandlove,
janet
As righteous as Christ.
How many of those folks in Jericho survived? How many did Joshua kill after the walls came down? What about Ai? What of the 5 kings later? What of Saul and the Amelakites? What about Moses and the Amalekites?
The list goes on and on and on about how God commanded folks to go to war. The war was fought by faith. The walls came down illustrating that God was fighting for Joshua. Then Joshua, as commanded, was able to continue to possess the rest of the land and he put his foot on the neck of kings and ran them through with the sword.
Jesus will lead another army in revelation.
"May the Lamb that was slain receive the just reward for His sufferings." A quote by Moravian missionary that sold himself (along with a friend) into slavery to reach those that the slave owner prevented from hearing the gospel.
May I live for Him and not for me.
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i'm not saying[ever], God does not kill.
read carefully!
i'm not saying God is a pacifist!
read carefully!
most of what i'm saying[what Jesus is saying-
"love your enemies,
do good to those who hate u
bless those who curse"
read carefully.
God is telling us what He wants from us in EVERY situation!
God is gonna wipe out people in the end it seems, but that's HIS doing, not ours.
read carefully!
As righteous as Christ.
Now that we know GOd is not a pacifist, can we also agree that he sends men to war? He sent David, Saul, Moses, Joshua, Samson and many others. Then he uses some of these men as examples of faith in scripture.
God is not a pacifist and neither are we. Romans 13 gives government the right to wield the sword. That's the whole point of God establishing government after the flood. Authority is meant to wield the sword of God's wrath against evil.
God kills but God does not sin. We too can kill and not sin.
"May the Lamb that was slain receive the just reward for His sufferings." A quote by Moravian missionary that sold himself (along with a friend) into slavery to reach those that the slave owner prevented from hearing the gospel.
May I live for Him and not for me.
Well, I do not agree..so, I suppose we will agree to disagree, the bible says it is actually satan, through the spirit of frogs that is leading the world to destruction, via Armagheddon.
Do you then say that those spirits of frogs are God?
Rev 16:13
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
God is allowing this world to reap what it has sown. Just like He said.
I don't think He is going to be mocked.
peaceandlove,
janet
As righteous as Christ.
So who commanded Joshua to take Canaan? Who commanded Saul to kill the Amalekites? Does God command men to sin? Nope. So, war must not always be sinful.
"May the Lamb that was slain receive the just reward for His sufferings." A quote by Moravian missionary that sold himself (along with a friend) into slavery to reach those that the slave owner prevented from hearing the gospel.
May I live for Him and not for me.
Could you supply the chapters and verses that state these things?..the walls came down by faith, and, IF God wanted them to just go in and WAR and KILL, He would never of told them to do it in the way of faith by marching around the city seven times..as I read it.
Thanks.
peaceandlove,
janet
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