Jesus says no to war!

[jewel4Christ]

God himself will even choose those paths for us. Sometimes we reject them. God chose for Barak to be a man of war and lead his people. But Barak would only follow Debra, who was the anointed of God into war. God also chose for Samson to be a man of war and of course, he also led David and Joshua into war.



God chose many to be warriors including Jesus (in Rev and in the OT) Samson, David, Joshua, Caleb and many others. He did it then and so, he does it today.

This is why when David learned this, he repented of his choice of warring with men in the flesh.

From the beginning, God told man to CHOOSE WHOM they would serve.

He told them, I place before you life and death, blessing and cursing, so CHOOSE whom you serve.

The two ways are opposites in the word of God.

Yes, after we DO choose whom we will serve, God uses that decided path for all...

We also cannot CHOOSE to serve TWO masters as your teachings imply.

You must choose ONE.

NOT, two.

Yet, God does work all things together for good to those whom CHOOSE HIS WAY/PATH, and even when we are confused and have chosen the wrong way, He is there with us, bringing us OUT of the ways of BABYLON, day by day. It is not something we all DO overnight or in one day....

It is a process that can take our whole lives.

David is a good example....

I keep saying that, I know.

No one has even tried to explain the seemingly contradictions about him..and, HOW God led him to see the better ways, concerning physical warfare, OVER TIME.

It does not fool me to just ignore those things, either.

God is not going to be mocked, whatsoever we CHOOSE to sow, that shall we reap.

Choosing to follow a way of the flesh will reap destruction of the flesh, if one follows that way LONG enough.

Those whom pick up the sword will die by the sword, IF they follow or CHOOSE that path long enough.

I am thankful, personally, that He shows us a better way, eventually....


peaceandlove,

janet

[Brother Mark]

From the beginning, God told man to CHOOSE WHOM they would serve.

He told them, I place before you life and death, blessing and cursing, so CHOOSE whom you serve.

Indeed he did! And when Saul rejected God by not killing ALL the amalekites, God rejected Saul because of his sin.

David is a good example....

David is a GREAT example. For he hated war, yet obeyed God concerning it anyway. A man after God's own heart from his youth and he showed that when he killed Goliath.

Why did God reject Saul when Saul disobeyed Him concerning war?

[jewel4Christ]

I'm not surprised

That is correct and Jesus uses military forces to get it started (Romans 13:4)

But God will answer prayers and all the people I spoke to in Iraq prayed for the freedom of the oppression of Saddam, there are a few Christian Iraqis. Took 9/11 to get us off our butts to finally go on the offense and be in God's will as He needed us to do the job and answer their prayers.

I am, that is why I served as a soldier 110% cause I was serving God on the path He set me on.

Yes, Jesus uses carnal nations to bring about His wrath on OTHER carnal nations...just remember that, lol, when it comes home to this CARNAL nation.

I don't think God wants HIS people killing other christians of the other CARNAL nation that HE WILL use to bring about the correction of THIS carnal nation....do you?

Until you can show in scripture that God is all for that, I don't think you have a case..lol...but, I have to run and get ready to go to church...have a good day.

So, yes, if you believe it was God that set you on that PHYSICAL war path, I would sorely disagree with that.

His plan was for the carnal nations to be that "sword carrier".

peaceandlove,

janet

[Brother Mark]

Yes, Jesus uses carnal nations to bring about His wrath on OTHER carnal nations...just remember that, lol, when it comes home to this CARNAL nation.

That is partially true. He also uses Godly men to bring his wrath upon the fleshly sinful men as illustrated repeatedly with Israel and the Godly Judges that led them to victory during war.

I don't think God wants HIS people killing other christians of the other CARNAL nation that HE WILL use to bring about the correction of THIS carnal nation....do you?

No doubt. God does not endorse believers killing each other. Though it did occur in Judges.

So, yes, if you believe it was God that set you on that PHYSICAL war path, I would sorely disagree with that.

It was for this very purpose that God raised up Barak, Samson, Gideon to name just a few.

And they are were not carnal and were mentioned in Hebrews, the hall of faith for their faith as it was illustrated in acts of war.

[jewel4Christ]

Indeed he did! And when Saul rejected God by not killing ALL the amalekites, God rejected Saul because of his sin.




David is a GREAT example. For he hated war, yet obeyed God concerning it anyway. A man after God's own heart from his youth and he showed that when he killed Goliath.

Why did God reject Saul when Saul disobeyed Him concerning war?

This is not what the bible says about the matter, it says HE delivered him from the evil sword ways.

He caused him to have a change of heart about those matters of warring after the flesh.

God does do that ya, know? It is very much a part of sanctification, and bringing about a change in our nature, day by day.....

No where in the word of god does it say or state that GOD chose that path for him, or any OTHER ot saint.

God said, "choose ye this day, whom ye shall serve".

He did NOT say, "let me choose for ye this day whom ye shall serve".

A very big difference, don't you think?

I have to get off here, got to get ready for church.

peaceandlove,

janet

[fewarechosen]

Does God love folks he sends to hell? Does hell harm them?

love them ? hes not even going to know them let alone love them, just like he will no longer remember our sins.

When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:



Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' "But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'

[Slug1]

Yes, after we DO choose whom we will serve, God uses that decided path for all...

We also cannot CHOOSE to serve TWO masters as your teachings imply.

You must choose ONE.

You do realize that serving in the military you are serving God whether a person believes that or not... right, you do understand that. God even refers to those that are in the military and police forces as... Ministers of God. So a person who is a soldier or are in a police force are in DIRECT service to God.

This is what God showed me when He gave me the ministry I now run with for God. Here is a quote from what He had me write:

A Christian who serves in the Military or any Police force for that matter does not serve two masters...

God authorized governments to protect their citizens + a government following God's will = Soldiers and police that are doing God's will!

So I wonder, how is this serving two masters?

Rom 13:1-4
13:1 Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil.
NASB

A minister of God, so not only a Christian placed on a warriors path... but now called... A Minister of God!

As a matter of fact when He gave me this ministry and I wrote that and then went back to read all the stuff I wrote out that day I was quite surprised when the realization HIT ME of the meaning and what God charged me with and how He prepped me for 21 years to be equiped properly for this ministry.

Those whom pick up the sword will die by the sword, IF they follow or CHOOSE that path long enough.

Picking up the sword for self gain is much different then being handed the sword to remove the one taken up by those for self gain. There are soldiers who don't want to do what they do but do it effectively anyway and you want to know why... cause God put them on a path to be a warrior and to bare the sword so others don't have to. Reminds me of Gideon. There are police that serve cause it's the "right thing" for them to do. Why do you think they feel this way? It's cause God has placed them on a path to be a warrior. Some serve God and or will seek God along their path and realize it was God who gave then that feeling or desire to serve the way they do. They protect against all the ones who picked up a sword for themselves and their own purposes and not for God and His purposes.

[jewel4Christ]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jewel4Christ
Yes, Jesus uses carnal nations to bring about His wrath on OTHER carnal nations...just remember that, lol, when it comes home to this CARNAL nation.

That is partially true. He also uses Godly men to bring his wrath upon the fleshly sinful men as illustrated repeatedly with Israel and the Godly Judges that led them to victory during war.

How can you say that? Israel was a carnal nation, whom were given a carnal law, and only those whom were of FAITH are counted as part of the true, ISRAEL of God.

Those of faith, evenually found a better way to walk..as written.

I will do a prooftext on this, when I get home today.....

Not all Israel ARE or WERE the true Israel of God.

peaceandlove,

janet

[Brother Mark]

love them ? hes not even going to know them let alone love them, just like he will no longer remember our sins.

He loved them before he sent them to hell. Yet, he sent them anyway. Right?

[fewarechosen]

He loved them before he sent them to hell. Yet, he sent them anyway. Right?

i dont ever see it as god sends anyone to hell , we choose to go to hell with our wrong decisions. he doesnt force us to love him . but we are free to pick the door that goes to hell.

[Brother Mark]

i dont ever see it as god sends anyone to hell , we choose to go to hell with our wrong decisions. he doesnt force us to love him . but we are free to pick the door that goes to hell.

On the contrary, he tells them to go there... "Depart from me...".

Either way, he created hell. He loved them. He sends them there because of their rejection of him. I can tell you this, no one marches into hell willingly. If he didn't force them to go, they sure as heck wouldn't go!

Now, on the one hand you are correct in that they chose while alive to reject God. But once they are on the other side and figure out what's up, God MAKES them go to hell and they go unwillingly.

He loves folks and sends them to hell. He loves folks and kills them.

[fewarechosen]

On the contrary, he tells them to go there... "Depart from me...".

Either way, he created hell. He loved them. He sends them there because of their rejection of him. I can tell you this, no one marches into hell willingly. If he didn't force them to go, they sure as heck wouldn't go!

Now, on the one hand you are correct in that they chose while alive to reject God. But once they are on the other side and figure out what's up, God MAKES them go to hell and they go unwillingly.

He loves folks and sends them to hell. He loves folks and kills them.

ok i can see your point with that - but what i am also saying is that the point he closes the door and says i dont know you is the point of him saying any love or wrath i have for the person now stops, because i dont even know them any more.

so no he doesnt love those who chose to go to hell or he chooses to send there, whatever way you want to look at it.

because how can he love someone he does not know

[Joyfilled]

though i do not know all and understand all, i do have an opinion, and i believe God needs men and woman to stand by their convictions, not being luke warm- as thousands are killed in the name of our Lord and King

1 Tim 6:3,4
tells us of the supremacy of Christs teaching.
God tells us that anyone who teaches contrary to His teaching is conceited and understands nothing.
Hence i take the teaching of Christ and the new testament as above all.

to really to as basic as possible;
let's look at Christs reaching, as He said it in the English language.

Matt 5:39
"Do not resist an evil person."

Matt 5:44
"Love your enemies."

In Romans, God says before telling us to submit to the governing authorities.

Rom12:14
"Bless those who persecute..."

Rom12:17
"Never pay back evil for evil."

Rom12:20
"If your enemy is hungry , feed him, and if he is thirsty give him a drink."

NO WHERE EVER IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE WE TOLD TO FIGHT A PHYSICAL WAR.

"Render to Caesar what is Caesar's and render to God what is God's."

The interests of the heads of government are to protect its people. The interests of those chosen by God in the new covenant are the things of God. That's why mixing the affairs of Caesar and the affairs of God is a lethal mix. If an enemy is out to annihilate another country, then it is in the interests of that country's leaders to defend its people. Because evil exists, war will also exist.

But we are also taught to obey the authorities of our governments, yet we are also told to obey God. So I think it's up to each individual born again Christian to discern whether God want him to defend his country. I think a good analogy is when Jesus paid taxes not because he worshiped Caesar or cared about what Caesar thought of him, but so that he will be in accordance with the laws of his country. So Christians who are drafted aren't killing because it's in their hearts to murder but because they are obeying the government authorities above them. But we can take solace in the fact that God will not give us more than we can bear. He will always provide a way out.

[EarlyCall]

This is not what the bible says about the matter, it says HE delivered him from the evil sword ways.

He caused him to have a change of heart about those matters of warring after the flesh.

God does do that ya, know? It is very much a part of sanctification, and bringing about a change in our nature, day by day.....

No where in the word of god does it say or state that GOD chose that path for him, or any OTHER ot saint.

God said, "choose ye this day, whom ye shall serve".

He did NOT say, "let me choose for ye this day whom ye shall serve".

A very big difference, don't you think?

I have to get off here, got to get ready for church.

peaceandlove,

janet

God commanded David to wage war and to kill and God blessed it.

Tell me how God delivered poor David from being what God commanded him to be?

Tell me further how God is not guilty? How does God escape the guilt of what He commanded and did? When God gave the enemy into David's hands....

This is stunning and so not Biblical.

So I teach my daughter to rob banks and I help her do it. After many years now I will begin tomorrow to teach her it is wrong to rob banks and that there is a better way.

You honestly don't see the problems do you?

[EarlyCall]

The question is certainly valid and anyone who desires to learn concerning this topic would be served by considering it at length.

I found a Wikipedia page (google "give unto Caesar, wikipedia" and it will be the first entry) that presents various viewpoints of how "render unto Caesar," has been historically interpreted, but only skimmed over the part about the Quaker's perspective so far. I agree that the "silent pauses," in scripture can speak to us , but I find it helpful to consider a wide range of perspectives in these matters.

This is an issue that has been debated since before there was dirt (or at least before dirt became socially acceptable) and I suppose that the answer may not be so black and white as we tend to think at times. Maybe, there is no blanket rule of thumb and it requires discernment in each instance. That could be an explanation of the "silently spoken notes," that we sometimes hear.

Yes, and when I find myself dealing with such things, I have to walk away from it with one thing more certain than all others, and it is: I don't know.

It seems the safer route.