Jesus says no to war!

[fewarechosen]

Did you miss that passage? Sure you did because it doesn't work for you. Simple biblical truth. There is a time for war just as there is a time for peace. You hate that because you hate war. That's cool. I do too. But what you refuse to understand is that there is sure enough a time for it.

Jesus did not condemn war because Jesus too knew that there was a time for it. The church was not to wage it and that's Jesus' point. His body wasn't to wage war. His body doesn't although in history there have been those that claim to be who have tried. God stopped that as well and that "church" suffered the loss and will suffer even more come one day. But point is the same.... Jesus always spoke about the kingdom of God. The parables were very much about that. This parable happens to be about the last of days. It isn't about nations going to war. It isn't about how governments should run. It shouldn't be used as such. Jesus is speaking to His body and letting His body know that the reapers will attend to the tares come on day. We, the body, don't have to.

Again... you've grossly misused the passage to try and make it fit what it is that you believe.

Matthew 13:24 ¶He presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.

no peter i gave you my last quote saw how you wanted to change christs explination from world to in the world and read no further to be honest -- just like i only read the first sentence of this one

so sorry man ill get to your question later, but im not gonna play the change plain english game

[ProjectPeter]

no peter i gave you my last quote saw how you wanted to change christs explination from world to in the world and read no further to be honest -- just like i only read the first sentence of this one

so sorry man ill get to your question later, but im not gonna play the change plain english game

I see... Notice that you didn't touch that "the kingdom of heaven can be compared" part of the passage either eh?

And why can't you get to that passage now? It was simply asked... is there a time for war and a time for peace? You go on here as if you are ALL about the "plain English" so plain English... what does it say?

[fewarechosen]

the seed is the word , few

edit: Now who/what is the word ?

bill im with you here it is in the parable

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

so lets address this first , here we have the explination of the who sows the good seed, and what the good seed is.

then we have what the tares are and who sowed them

so there is no mixing of seed -- christ never sows tares , and the devil never tarnishes the good seed, he plants his evil ones.

they both are throughout the whole world mixed together


would you agree ?

[RoadWarrior]

Here has been demonstrated the problem with quoting Scripture out of context, and especially since you partially quote and do not put in the "address" of what you are quoting. There are three places where Jesus' parables about seed and the sower are mentioned. Do you know all three of them?

Matthew 13
Mark 4
Luke 8


Matthew 13 is an extremely interesting chapter because Jesus tells three different stories about a sower and seed -

In Matthew 13:4, the seed is the Word - it is the parable about different types of soils.

In Matthew 13:24, the seed is the children of the Kingdom - the parable about the wheat and the tares.

Matthew 13:31 is the parable about the mustard seed that becomes a tree.

How many parables are in this same chapter, do you know?

There is a theme in this chapter. It is not about war. Can you guess what Jesus is talking about in this chapter?

[ProjectPeter]

bill im with you here it is in the parable

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

so lets address this first , here we have the explination of the who sows the good seed, and what the good seed is.



would you agree ?

This is speaking of the END TIME harvest. Goodness gracious. It has NOTHING to do with war, governments, etc.

That whole passage in Matthew is about Jesus comparing things to the Kingdom of Heaven.

His last... Matthew 13:47 *¶"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;
48 *and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down, and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away.
49 *"So it will be at the end of the age; the angels shall come forth, and take out the wicked from among the righteous,
50 *and will cast them into the furnace of fire; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Again... trying to use this to say war is evil because.... that has absolutely nothing at all to do with the parables.

[IamBill]

the seed is the word , few

edit: Now who/what is the word ?

bill im with you here it is in the parable

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

so lets address this first , here we have the explination of the who sows the good seed, and what the good seed is.



would you agree ?

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

[ProjectPeter]

Here has been demonstrated the problem with quoting Scripture out of context, and especially since you partially quote and do not put in the "address" of what you are quoting. There are three places where Jesus' parables about seed and the sower are mentioned. Do you know all three of them?

Matthew 13
Mark 4
Luke 8


Matthew 13 is an extremely interesting chapter because Jesus tells three different stories about a sower and seed -

In Matthew 13:4, the seed is the Word - it is the parable about different types of soils.

In Matthew 13:24, the seed is the children of the Kingdom - the parable about the wheat and the tares.

Matthew 13:31 is the parable about the mustard seed that becomes a tree.

How many parables are in this same chapter, do you know?

There is a theme in this chapter. It is not about war. Can you guess what Jesus is talking about in this chapter?

I'm going to answer simply because I want to!

He is speaking to them about GOING INTO THE WORLD AND PLANTING SEED! They aren't to fret over those who hear the word and receive it with joy and yet their hearts rocky... or they get swallowed up in thorns. They aren't to pick and choose where to plant the seed... plant it everywhere. When you toss out the net... don't sit there and try and figure out the exact place to toss it. TOSS IT. In the net are going to be some good fish and bad fish. God will send the reapers and the fish inspector's and it will be sorted out come that day.

The entire group of parables was simply about advancing the kingdom. Not about anything other than that.

Here in the middle of this the disciple ask... why do you speak in parables? Jesus answered them.

Matthew 13:11 *And He answered and said to them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
12 *"For whoever has, to him shall more be given, and he shall have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.

Jesus later uses this same thing in another parable to them... the parable of that talents. TO whomever has more is given and whoever does not have... even what he has will be taken away from him.

Matthew 25:14 *¶"For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves, and entrusted his possessions to them.
15 *"And to one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.
16 *"Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents.
17 *"In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.
18 *"But he who received the one talent went away and dug in the ground, and hid his master's money.
19 *"Now after a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them.
20 *"And the one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, `Master, you entrusted five talents to me; see, I have gained five more talents.´
21 *"His master said to him, `Well done, good and faithful slave; you were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things, enter into the joy of your master.´
22 *"The one also who had received the two talents came up and said, `Master, you entrusted to me two talents; see, I have gained two more talents.´
23 *"His master said to him, `Well done, good and faithful slave; you were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.´
24 *"And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, `Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed.
25 *`And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground; see, you have what is yours.´
26 *"But his master answered and said to him, `You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow, and gather where I scattered no seed.
27 *`Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
28 *`Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.´
29 *"For to everyone who has shall more be given, and he shall have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.


ADVANCE THE KINGDOM! Go... serve your King!

[Slug1]

ok hopefully you didnt take me serious but i suppose you did --- my point was then where do you draw the line --- your government authority tells you to do evil, when is ok to draw the line and when is not too ?

Define evil

[RoadWarrior]

Well done, Project Peter, you connected it with yet another parable, showing that what Jesus says in one way in one place, He says in another way in another place. When we rightly divide the Word of God, we will see this. The Bible does not contradict itself, if someone thinks it does, then they see a wrong interpretation in one place or the other.

Jesus spoke in parables so that his listening enemies (those who were trying to kill him) would not "get it". But he explained the parables to His disciples. Not all of the explanantions are given to us in the gospels, but the disciples learned the answers to all of them. In the rest of the NT, in Acts and in the letters, I believe that the disciples lived out what Jesus had taught. If we are patient and obedient, we are likely to be given that discernment which they had.

I like that you also quoted the part about those who have and those who do not ... if we think we already know all the answers, as the Pharisees thought they knew all the answers, then we will not be given more discernment. But if we know that we only have a tiny bit, and are willing to be taught by the Holy Spirit, then the riches of the Word are limitless to us.

[RoadWarrior]

I'd like to turn back to the subject of war. Anyone notice my signature line? This is the war that we fight as Christians. Not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the powers of the air, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Eph 6:12

Do you know that those who come against Christian nations in war, are doing so while praying to other gods? They are acting under the influence and control of the rulers of the darkness of this world - the principalities and the powers of the air.

As a soldier fighting in a war, it may appear to be about flesh and blood, but in a very real sense it is something more than that. Satan has from the beginning wanted to kill every baby that might be born as Christ - when he failed to destroy Christ, he turned against everyone who lives for Christ. Any nation that names the name of Christ, such as America has, is a target for his wrath.

If you do not know the scriptures which teach these things, I encourage you to search them out. Then you will begin to know what it means for a Christian soldier to fight in a flesh and blood war. The real enemy is the unseen one. But on our side are ten thousand angels.

If you need help in searching out these scriptures, ask me and I will help you. But maybe it would be good to do it in a different thread. This one is becoming overwhelmingly heavy!

[Slug1]

I'd like to turn back to the subject of war. Anyone notice my signature line? This is the war that we fight as Christians. Not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the powers of the air, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Eph 6:12

Do you know that those who come against Christian nations in war, are doing so while praying to other gods? They are acting under the influence and control of the rulers of the darkness of this world - the principalities and the powers of the air.

As a soldier fighting in a war, it may appear to be about flesh and blood, but in a very real sense it is something more than that. Satan has from the beginning wanted to kill every baby that might be born as Christ - when he failed to destroy Christ, he turned against everyone who lives for Christ. Any nation that names the name of Christ, such as America has, is a target for his wrath.

If you do not know the scriptures which teach these things, I encourage you to search them out. Then you will begin to know what it means for a Christian soldier to fight in a flesh and blood war. The real enemy is the unseen one. But on our side are ten thousand angels.

If you need help in searching out these scriptures, ask me and I will help you. But maybe it would be good to do it in a different thread. This one is becoming overwhelmingly heavy!

When I was in Fallujah for 3 months back in 2003 the spiritual battle was just as strong as the physical battle. satan had a strangle hold on that city more so then any other area I was in while in Iraq. Only my Christian brothers sensed this while even non-Christian brothers said stuff like, "This place even feels evil." They just didn't know just how correct they were.

[fewarechosen]

bill im with you here it is in the parable

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

so lets address this first , here we have the explination of the who sows the good seed, and what the good seed is.

then we have what the tares are and who sowed them

so there is no mixing of seed -- christ never sows tares , and the devil never tarnishes the good seed, he plants his evil ones.

they both are throughout the whole world mixed together


would you agree ?

whats kinda funny is since your all of the same mind set and im obviously like debating 4 of you , but yet none would even reply to this,

notice most of you are probably in the military or such
and probably they ingrain that so deep in your head and they make patriotism flow so deep. make you loyal to a country that is not loyal to god, so instead of being able to face it, many wish to look away and pat eachother on the back and say good job. you value the man next to you more than your enemy and in so doing you disobey,watch what gods gonna do to your country no matter how hard you try to stop it. you strive in vain, then you come in here and attack me, acting as if you are warriors.

god does not care about your nation, he will show you exactly what he thinks of your tanks and bombs, and he will show you what he thinks of you placing faith in them.

he will show you what it means to love your neighbor as yourself -- again i say do you bomb yourself

when you can realize how utterly hard and impossible that is to do, then you will hate your life like told to in scripture, untill then cuddle up with your family, work your jobs to pay for your houses and toys, guard your flesh with all manner of things because you covet it, and let the world keep spinning.

11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

he came not to bring peace but a sword

[IamBill]

whats kinda funny is since your all of the same mind set and im obviously like debating 4 of you , but yet none would even reply to this,

1. You directly asked my view on this matter about 200 pages ago -I gave you a Direct answer -you didn't respond -what is my mindset ?
2, I am not here to -DEBATE, PLAY, OR make show of anything
3, You didn't answer my question -and I DID respond anyway -it appears you added to it after I quoted it though

notice most of you are probably in the military or such
and probably they ingrain that so deep in your head and they make patriotism flow so deep. make you loyal to a country that is not loyal to god, so instead of being able to face it, many wish to look away and pat eachother on the back and say good job. you value the man next to you more than your enemy and in so doing you disobey,watch what gods gonna do to your country no matter how hard you try to stop it. you strive in vain, then you come in here and attack me, acting as if you are warriors.

Thats very Interesting S - I never expected a remark like that from you

god does not care about your nation, he will show you exactly what he thinks of your tanks and bombs, and he will show you what he thinks of you placing faith in them.

sounds like something Bin laden would say.
But isn't that sort of blowing things out of proportion ? faith in bombs and tanks?

he will show you what it means to love your neighbor as yourself -- again i say do you bomb yourself

If your neighbor would 'love' to be raped by you -should you go rape your neighbor ?

when you can realize how utterly hard and impossible that is to do, then you will hate your life like told to in scripture, untill then cuddle up with your family, work your jobs to pay for your houses and toys, guard your flesh with all manner of things because you covet it, and let the world keep spinning.

Do you REALLY know me ?
Also Easy to say when one does not know Family/children - Jesus does, what did he say concerning children ? Would he find it OK to harm or allow a child be harmed.
You know, every child born has a death sentence -It's part of this life, and a part of Faith.

11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

he came not to bring peace but a sword

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

edited out

wow

[evrgreenjhawk]

guess that'll teach me to open my trap

[jewel4Christ]

I am not the one who is here to promote a doctrine, I am only observing and listening to what is being promoted. The true test of a person's belief is in how they live it out for themselves - not in how they try to make other people conform to it. I see a strong agenda here to convince others that we should all be pacifists. I have no objection to your being such, but I do have objection to your forcing the opinion on others, by implying that if we were only saved, we would agree with you. So I ask the question in order to learn whether you all are sincere or if it is just words that you learned to repeat.

Roadwarrior,

If you believe this, you have not read this thread.

No one is saying that a person whom is NOT agreeing with us is not saved..

What we are saying is that at the point of salvation, we do not yet understand all things..God leads us to grow in grace and in knowledge...and, yes, once you reach a certain point, He teaches you to put away the childish/ot ways.

That does NOT mean you are not saved..heck, I am sure there are things YOU understand that I don't..does that mean you would judge me unsaved, or even question in your mind to whether I am saved or not?

Good grief, salvation is a free gift.

WE do not earn it by head knowledge...and, btw, that is the way of the pharasee's..to whom I DESPISE...so, please, for future reference do not put ME in that category.

peaceandlove,

janet