Jesus says no to war!

[itsokimadocter]

There is no sin in killing. See... you go on about all this without even thinking. Fact. God killed and kills folk. If killing is a sin then God is a sinner. Fact: Jesus will kill a boat load when He returns. If killing is a sin then Jesus no longer remains perfect and will on that day enter into sin.

FACT: Killing is not a sin. Murder is a sin. Killing with evil motive and intent and or malice... that is a sin. Killing... in and of itself is no sin at all. If it was then God told Noah, Moses, David, Sampson, etc. to sin. If that is the case then the Bible just became a lie because God tempts no man to sin.

Ponder it... maybe it will make some sense.

Laydownhislife, i would really like to hear your input regarding ProjectPeter's post noted above.

[ProjectPeter]

i would say as a follower of christ, now, it will be foolish to pick up a weapon of any sort in order to hurt/maim, or kill anyone.
i too am ex military.
i have repented.
i would say, once the truth has come to me,being formely decieved- that i thought i could do better than God with my weapon, than He can do by His mighty hand, i repent, and say;"lord, come do by Your mighty hand.Let me stand out of Your way.You are Lord of all situations.It is You Who hold life and death, not me.Come and have your way, oh Lord."

And again... show me where killing is a sin and God is Himself a sinner because God sure enough killed folk.

[ProjectPeter]

Laydownhislife, i would really like to hear your input regarding ProjectPeter's post noted above.

There is no response because like with many man thought doctrine... they trap themselves with their own faulty logic. It happens.

[threebigrocks]

The elect are not to wage war with metal weapons but with the Spirit of God. We are to walk as Christ did turning the other cheek and forgiving our enemies.

He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.

And he who lives by the Spirit won't.

You have a loaded gun. People you love are without a doubt going to be killed. Will you sit and watch or remove what is obvious evil from taking the lives of those who love?

LayDownHisLife, you say be a preacher, not a soldier. Are you now a preacher with a congregation or a God ordained ministry to keep those who would murder from doing so? Really, if we've got those who run around and murder still we could say that the preachers are falling short, thus by association they too are taking lives by not converting every gang banger and evil minded person on this planet.

YES, before you fry me on it - it IS a rediculous notion. Evil will do what it will do. But when it comes down to it - no way would any person allow evil to take the life of those who they love thinking that was loving. I'd lay down my life for not only my brother but for the innocent.

[Brother Mark]

you are free to do as you please.
please read the end of Romans 12, before we are told to submitt to governing authorities.read carefully.if thereafter you feel free to go and kill, then do so, but please remember;there is a price to pay

So you have no comment on how God uses government to kill? He gave them the authority to do so back after the flood. Just in case folks say "Hey, that's not for the believer" keep in mind that only believers existed after the flood and Romans 13 was written to believers. So we have it covered in both the NT and the OT.

Does God give government the right to execute his wrath according to Romans 13? You bet he does.

Authority has a responsibility to protect those under it's authority. That's the point that Project Peter is making. For the authority to ignore that directive, would be a sin against both those under it's care and God himself.

[Brother Mark]

There is no response because like with many man thought doctrine... they trap themselves with their own faulty logic. It happens.

Exactly. Take the scripture in Matthew 5 and ignore the one in Romans 13. There is no answer because it's a tenable position. What kind of man would stand by and let an evil man rape the daughter God gave him to protect? Authority is charged with resisting evil and the individual is charged with turning the other cheek.

[ProjectPeter]

Exactly. Take the scripture in Matthew 5 and ignore the one in Romans 13. There is no answer because it's a tenable position. What kind of man would stand by and let an evil man rape the daughter God gave him to protect? Authority is charged with resisting evil and the individual is charged with turning the other cheek.

Well simple fact that cannot be escaped if what this doctrine says is true. God Himself is a sinner because God sure enough killed folk. Hem, haw, and tap dance ... one cannot escape that very fact.

[Brother Mark]

Well simple fact that cannot be escaped if what this doctrine says is true. God Himself is a sinner because God sure enough killed folk. Hem, haw, and tap dance ... one cannot escape that very fact.

Yep. And Jesus himself will lead a great army in Revelation just as he led one in Joshua.

[ProjectPeter]

Yep. And Jesus himself will lead a great army in Revelation just as he led one in Joshua.

Yes.... that He will!

[LaidDownHisLIfe]

Well simple fact that cannot be escaped if what this doctrine says is true. God Himself is a sinner because God sure enough killed folk. Hem, haw, and tap dance ... one cannot escape that very fact.

says God himself is a sinner.shame on you,
tap dancer or no tap dancer, God is not a sinner!
God can do as He pleases,HE HOLDS life and death.

if the lodgic of loving your enemies is faulty in lodgic, please talk to the Author about it.it did not come from me.

and again i say; read Rom 13 in context with Rom 12.

if you are having a problem with this truth, you are not having a problem with me, but the One Who said it!
i'm merely quoting Him.

NO WHERE EVER IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE WE TOLD TO FIGHT A PHYSICAL WAR.
now if u can show me where the N.T. teaches where we should fight war,[physicaly], then show me, and we can talk some more, but if not, then perhaps try get answers elsewhere,
but
God's word stands firm forever.
"love your enemies."
if u can do what you do in love, then who am i to tell you anymore?

[ProjectPeter]

says God himself is a sinner.shame on you,
tap dancer or no tap dancer, God is not a sinner!
God can do as He pleases,HE HOLDS life and death.

if the lodgic of loving your enemies is faulty in lodgic, please talk to the Author about it.it did not come from me.

and again i say; read Rom 13 in context with Rom 12.

if you are having a problem with this truth, you are not having a problem with me, but the One Who said it!
i'm merely quoting Him.

NO WHERE EVER IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE WE TOLD TO FIGHT A PHYSICAL WAR.
now if u can show me where the N.T. teaches where we should fight war,[physicaly], then show me, and we can talk some more, but if not, then perhaps try get answers elsewhere,
but
God's word stands firm forever.
"love your enemies."
if u can do what you do in love, then who am i to tell you anymore?

First you answer me. If killing is a sin then how is God Himself not a sinner? If killing is a sin then how can Jesus Christ escape such a sin because He will destroy many? You are tap dancing if you cannot answer that very question. God doesn't sin and yet God kills. So is there "killing" which isn't a sin?

As to who are you to tell me... not much in all honesty. Your doctrine is wrong.

[LaidDownHisLIfe]

First you answer me. If killing is a sin then how is God Himself not a sinner? If killing is a sin then how can Jesus Christ escape such a sin because He will destroy many? You are tap dancing if you cannot answer that very question. God doesn't sin and yet God kills. So is there "killing" which isn't a sin?

As to who are you to tell me... not much in all honesty. Your doctrine is wrong.

just because God kills, does not give us the right to kill.

u can tap dance all u like, niether God or i are impressed at this dancing.

the only thing which God rejoices in in His children living in obedience, and loving as He commanded.

if u feel killing is more righteous than preaching the gospel, u may continue.
if u feel your bullet is faster than God's hand, then carry on,
but the truth stands:
NO WHERE EVER IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE WE TOLD TO FIGHT A PHYSICAL WAR.
try sticking to the subject!

[Athanasius]

NO WHERE EVER IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE WE TOLD TO FIGHT A PHYSICAL WAR.
try sticking to the subject!

This isn't the issue.
Those in this thread have written some very good replies to your stance. Unfortunately you aren't open to other possibilities.

[Brother Mark]

just because God kills, does not give us the right to kill.

u can tap dance all u like, niether God or i are impressed at this dancing.

the only thing which God rejoices in in His children living in obedience, and loving as He commanded.

if u feel killing is more righteous than preaching the gospel, u may continue.
if u feel your bullet is faster than God's hand, then carry on,
but the truth stands:
NO WHERE EVER IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ARE WE TOLD TO FIGHT A PHYSICAL WAR.
try sticking to the subject!

Romans 13 supports war. Government is to protect the innocent and bear the sword of the wrath of God. That's new testament.

When the NT occurred, he did not change his character.

[jewel4Christ]

First you answer me. If killing is a sin then how is God Himself not a sinner? If killing is a sin then how can Jesus Christ escape such a sin because He will destroy many? You are tap dancing if you cannot answer that very question. God doesn't sin and yet God kills. So is there "killing" which isn't a sin?

As to who are you to tell me... not much in all honesty. Your doctrine is wrong.

God uses the governments of THIS world to fulfill His wrath, and His will for evil doers.

How He fulfills this is written down in His holy word.

He has handed the governments of this world over to SATAN, and human governments with satan as their "god" fulfill the law of reaping and sowing...those whom pick up the sword will die by the sword. God is not mocked, whatsover we sow, we will reap...and, He has said, not only is killing wrong, but hating is wrong.

We are not called to be the workers in HUMAN governments, that YES, God has set in place and uses the god of this world to work His wrath and judgements through, but you have claimed the person whom is speaking the truth on the matter does not have truth, and I believe you are wrong.

Would you care to take a look see in the word of God and find out HOW God fulfills His wrath, and judgements?

It might open some eyes.

God is NOT the God of this world, or the God of these human governments.

Begin there...they have satan as their king.

peaceandlove,

janet