Jesus says no to war!

[ProjectPeter]

No, you are taking my words out of context to what I have said. I have said over and over that God DOES use carnal men to fulfill HIS WILL and purpose.

Just like the beast.

So, please if you are going to quote me, please at least quote what I do say.


David was carnal when God used him in war.

So were the others.

This is what the bible states....in CONTEXT.

Once David was converted, he despised the ways of this world, hated wars, and why men go that route, or do you deny those verses, too?


peaceandlove,

janet

Uh... David was converted while killing in war. Honestly.... your grasp of Old Testament Scripture is quite lacking and that is pretty evident in much of what you have said when speaking of David in particular.

As to Noah... He was righteous. Period. We can even go as far as to say that Noah was saved... Has nothing to do with God using "carnal" man. He gave a law to Noah. If a man murders another man then man is to kill that man. That is what it says... right?

And by the way... I did quote what you said. Just like when you asked folks to answer your question and they were.

[Brother Mark]

point 1] jesus said:"love your enemies."
not :"go into a just war".
OBEDIENCE TO ANY STATE THAT SAYS GO AND FIGHT WAR IS DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD!! read Rom12

Nice twist there. I will obey all of God's commands. God loves his enemies. Does he kill them?

God told Samson to go and kill. Was Samson sinful for doing so? The commands of love were written before Samson was born. Oh, and the Spirit of God actually enabled Samson to be very, very efficient at killing.

[Slug1]

Nice twist there. I will obey all of God's commands. God loves his enemies. Does he kill them?

God told Samson to go and kill. Was Samson sinful for doing so? The commands of love were written before Samson was born. Oh, and the Spirit of God actually enabled Samson to be very, very efficient at killing.

Samson even prayed for vengence and the prayer was answered in a BIG way and he was able to kill ALL the Philistines and die in the act.

[fewarechosen]

So then here is what we have... your emotions dictate Scripture?

Tell me something... when the walls of Jericho came down... do you think there weren't some 3 year olds in that city? Sure there were.... likely even several newborn babies. Nevertheless... they died. You make God guilty of sin if you try and tie that as a sin. War ain't pretty. Wasn't pretty back then and isn't pretty now. Folks die in the things.

god ordered it so he knows exactly who he was commanding to be killed children and all.
god knows everyones heart so he can kill who he wants, when he wants -- but we dont because we are not god

now are you saying our president is as david and cleary tells his soldiers this is gods order that we do this ?

if you think it is the same now as then, surely it must be the same --- or do you think our leaders now dont have god giving them visions and orders and stray by themselves ? trusting in people and supporters more than god.

somehow you think i am making god guilty of sin
god knows everyones heart --so he can kill who he wants and is not guilty of anything -- he made them he can break them.

if you made mankind and can search everymans heart, then you can tell others to go to war and kill whoever you want.

but till then i suggest you let him decide and not some elected official -- who is nothing like david

[Brother Mark]

so when you say

"Our soldiers war against those that would kill you just because you're not "them"."

i say those who seek to kill me cant kill me till god sees fit. so any war you wage is pointless to me and has nothing to do with my protection.

That's why God raises up modern day Samsons. To protect those that the modern day Philistines would war against.

[LaidDownHisLIfe]

I can say "I" because I have killed in this capacity and it is a terrible part of war. I did not hold anything sinful in my heart. I have lived it, I have fought a few wars and God not once made it known I was not in His will.

Killing needs to be done, it's a tool... has a purpose... that God uses to see His will done here on earth. Who is to do this for Him? Non-Christians?

have u read matt 5, or luke 6?
we are told:"love your enemies."
do u think u are loving your enemies by killing them?

we need to obey slug1, both u and i!

[Brother Mark]

god ordered it so he knows exactly who he was commanding to be killed children and all.
god knows everyones heart so he can kill who he wants, when he wants -- but we dont because we are not god

now are you saying our president is as david and cleary tells his soldiers this is gods order that we do this ?

if you think it is the same now as then, surely it must be the same --- or do you think our leaders now dont have god giving them visions and orders and stray by themselves ? trusting in people and supporters more than god.

somehow you think i am making god guilty of sin
god knows everyones heart --so he can kill who he wants and is not guilty of anything -- he made them he can break them.

if you made mankind and can search everymans heart, then you can tell others to go to war and kill whoever you want.

but till then i suggest you let him decide and not some elected official -- who is nothing like david

Government doesn't need to look at a mans heart. All they need do is look at his actions. That's why God told Noah about capital punishment. It's one reason God gave government. God can look at the heart and judge him for eternity. We simply look at the act and take proper actions to prevent the act from becoming a common occurrence in society as it was in the days of Noah.

[Brother Mark]

the reason why u can t see this is sinful is perhaps u do not take His word seriously.
have u read matt 5, or luke 6?
we are told:"love your enemies."
do u think u are loving your enemies by killing them?

Well, this keeps getting repeated so it deserves to be questioned repeatedly.

Does God love his enemies? Does he kill them? YES! So it is possible to love your enemies and to kill them. God tells government to kill and individuals to love. I have to turn the other cheek. But when authority says "Go and protect family from evil men" I will then go and kill. And in so doing, I will keep all the commandments of God from loving my enemy, to turning the other cheek, to killing while under authority. A man comes at me, I can turn the other cheek. He comes at my family, and city, the government should step up to protect them. If in doing so, it asks me to partake, I will do so.

[Slug1]

now i have a long family line of people in the military and lots of friends, my uncles and grandfather , have purple hearts and what not from ww2 and others.

so when you say

"Our soldiers war against those that would kill you just because you're not "them"."

i say those who seek to kill me cant kill me till god sees fit. so any war you wage is pointless to me and has nothing to do with my protection.

you make it sound like god came to our president and said go wage war. david made known who his orders came from to his people.

now soldiers dont think they war against innocent blood, but make no mistake they shed it.

when a soldier fires a bullet and it strays through a building and hits a 3 year old in the face -- that soldier just shed innocent blood.

it would be better that i got shot in the face than for me to cause that to a 3 year old.

when a bomb strays and kills a family that has no idea why there is war going on , they shed innocent blood.

that is harsh truth, that is often looked away from and brushed aside as a casualty of war.

now those who are chosen in due time are led to understand that you do not shed anothers blood , you let them shed yours ---- just as christ did

Where is such an accidental death considered murder which is a sin vs. killing which is not a sin?

Tell me, if a burgler is in your house and you call the police and they come and due to a stubborn thief they are forced to kill him... are you in the equation of that death in any way? Just a question I like to ask.

[jewel4Christ]

Hi Mark,

I am only going to respond to a couple of your points, because it is clear that we are not going to see eye to eye on this, and I don't want to try to persuade your conscience..that is not my game.

My game is to be a witness to what I know the truth is, and, I am sure you feel likewise, and, I speak to those whom do agree, moreso, than those whom don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jewel4Christ
It has been shown already that once David was converted, that he dispised war, etc, and I am not going to go through all those verses again. Everyone needs to do their OWN homework, because that is the ONLY way truth is confirmed in us anyway. I cannot change your mind, and you are NOT going to change mine..on this issue.

David was converted as a youth. God chose him because he was a man after his own heart. From a very young age, David was born again.

I will agree, you will not change my mind nor I yours.

David was CALLED as a youth. Being called is not the same as what comes later..."chosen".

Many are called, FEW are chosen. NO ONE IS CHOSEN, before they obey God, through repentance and faith.

So, what we have here is a difference in interpretation of some of these things.

I was also called as a child. I knew from very early on that God was calling me. I was not born again/chosen, though, until I came to full repentance and faith. I was NOT saved at such a early age...Faith without obedience is not what the bible teaches....God gives His holy spirit to those whom obey HIM...through the working of repentance and beleif. ..and, you are correct, you are not going to change my mind on this...it has already been confirmed to me in my heart, and, I know you could say the same, but, one thing is for sure one of us is wrong. You believe it is me, and I believe it is you..such is life.

The point being, they are not as innocent as we make them out to be. When a civilization supports the war machine, they partake of that war machine. Without the support of the people, the god emperor of Japan could not have waged war, just as Agag could not wage war without his people. It will be more tolerable for Sodom in the day of judgment because of what they did not know. But it did not stop God from destroying them. To know more is to be held to the standard of the knowledge that is revealed. But in Romans 1, we know that Sodom suppressed the truth that God did reveal to them.

How would a mere man know what citizens support their nations war machine? Are you god? Tell me Mark, can you look down into the heart and mind of a child and, or a mother whom has just been blown to pieces by the so called war machine and make that judgement that they supported it? God forbid, I could never believe that baloney.

..and, you are correct, to know and understand more, means God expects MORE of you. That is expressly why I will not support any government on the face of this wicked earth, nor it's militaries, nor it's agenda..and, so be if they come to my door and proclaim me a heretic because I won't submit to their authority.

They can take me off to their man made dungeons,and slice my body into pieces and I still won't submit.

God has prepared me already for it. You or no one else can undo what God has done.

So, have a nice time, supporting the governments of this world, and so while doing, when they come to kill the christians, THEN you will see what I mean...and, hopefully at that time, you will open your eyes to this truth.

peaceandlove,

janet

[Slug1]

the reason why u can t see this is sinful is perhaps u do not take His word seriously.
have u read matt 5, or luke 6?
we are told:"love your enemies."
do u think u are loving your enemies by killing them?

we need to obey slug1, both u and i!

God put me in the military for 21 years... Oh I'm obedient. Then He has placed a ministry for soldiers who are serving in the military on my heart. He is using my experiances and all He put me through to help soldiers who also have faith in Him and are confused by attitudes such as some in this thread.

[ProjectPeter]

god ordered it so he knows exactly who he was commanding to be killed children and all.
god knows everyones heart so he can kill who he wants, when he wants -- but we dont because we are not god

now are you saying our president is as david and cleary tells his soldiers this is gods order that we do this ?

if you think it is the same now as then, surely it must be the same --- or do you think our leaders now dont have god giving them visions and orders and stray by themselves ? trusting in people and supporters more than god.

somehow you think i am making god guilty of sin
god knows everyones heart --so he can kill who he wants and is not guilty of anything -- he made them he can break them.

if you made mankind and can search everymans heart, then you can tell others to go to war and kill whoever you want.

but till then i suggest you let him decide and not some elected official -- who is nothing like david

So God is God therefore God can do anything on His list of sins and it isn't really a sin because He is God? That's interesting I suppose but simple truth. God doesn't sin therefore killing in and of itself is not a sin.

Neither will God tempt man to sin. If that is the case then what would God be doing ordering man to in fact kill if killing was sin?

[LaidDownHisLIfe]

[quote=Brother Mark;1685099]Well, this keeps getting repeated so it deserves to be questioned repeatedly.

Does God love his enemies? Does he kill them?

God has written the commands to/for us.
Not 4 Himself.

God does not say;"i will not kill."

BUT

God tells us to love our enemies[lk6, mt5]

what is your response?
to hate them?
to kill them?

then u are NOT obeying God

[jewel4Christ]

Does God love his enemies? Does he kill them? YES!

God's wrath is fulfilled not by His OWN hand, but the tool of satan.

This is why we do not agree.

God uses satan as a tool to fulfill His judgements ,and His wrath, for God cannot be tempted with evil....

Maybe we should do a thread on this, and then maybe we could understand the truth of this matter.

For example, many have stated that God is going to kill millions upon His arrival. I don't see that even written. What I do see is that God is going to use the BEAST to fulfill His wrath against the whore..(those whom deserve death)

Is the beast God?

God forbid, what the church is led to believe these days...and, btw, God does not even need to use His own hands, man is quite able to fulfill it themselves, with their weapons of mass destruction, that is going to rain down the destruction to this earth...as by fire.



peaceandlove,

janet

peaceandlove,

janet

[Slug1]

Well, this keeps getting repeated so it deserves to be questioned repeatedly.

Does God love his enemies? Does he kill them?

God has written the commands to/for us.
Not 4 Himself.

God does not say;"i will not kill."

BUT

God tells us to love our enemies[lk6, mt5]

what is your response?
to hate them?
to kill them?

then u are NOT obeying God

God CANNOT do Himself which is a sin for us