Jesus says no to war!

[jewel4Christ]

Hi Janet,

Just a wee question - Does it make a difference, do you think, whether you are the one making war, or the one who is being warred against?

From history, I can see that the megalomaniacs who made war because they wanted to rule the whole world, could be accused of lust. But what of those who defended themselves against the incoming warriors? Do you likewise accuse them of lust, or does a different rule apply to them?

Hi Roadwarrior,

I don't accuse anyone of anything.

The word of God will be the judge of all men.

All I am here doing is being a witness to what it states, as I see it...and, likewise, many will agree, or disagree.

I am no man's judge, all of us will be judged by what we ourselves believe.

I am not even trying to get others to agree with me, I am not the holy spirit, and I don't even believe that I could make anyone change their mindset.

Thanks for the post...


peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

And if the WHOLE of USA were saved and with the Holy Spirit, what would happen after another 9/11?

The only thing still keeping me in this thread is it seems to be the "anti-war camps" position,is that if one enters or participates or in some way supports war effort, whether it be for defense of oneself, family or defending another weaker, that they cannot also be with or following God. For me that is totally ludicrous

Where do you get that idea?

ALL of us are here, trying to show that we all sin....we all need to grow in grace and in knowledge......it is a process...I do not look down on anyone..and, in fact, I only have learned this myself recently.

Does that mean that I was any LESS saved before? NOT.

It means I was following, to the best that the Lord had given increase at that particular time. That does not mean, however that once we see something, we do not share it with our brethren.

I am sure there are many things that you understand that I am STILL way behind in...and, lacking.

God's will is that we share, and grow...at least in mho.

peaceandlove,

janet

[fewarechosen]

Have you ever noticed this verse:

Col 1:24
24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,
NKJV


What do you think was lacking in the afflictions of Christ that needed to be filled up by Paul?

What is being accomplished in the Kingdom by the deaths of the martyrs? What responsibility do we who dwell in safety have to those who are being martyred?

In the body, there are many parts. In a nation, there are many different roles. It is the job of the government to protect the populace. If you are called to be a martyr, then it is your job to do it with dignity and to glorify the Name of God. But if you are a soldier, is it not also your job to do that job with dignity and to glorify the Name of God?

It takes great love to be willing to give your life for another. Do you possess that kind of love?

i gotta go soon so i would like to only address the bolded question.

such a question can easily lead someone to tempt the lord.

if i say yes i am willing -- god may let satan loose a worse scenario than i can ever imagine upon me. and i can imagine very very very horrible scenarios.

that being said , do i think i am willing -- for sure i hate this world its all vanity, this is not my home, it offends me and i hate my life.

am i preparing to lay down my life --absolutly
if i am to lay down my life - i pray that it is for my enemy, so god may show his power and show us what it means to give no thought for the rest. if it is his will.

remember not everyone came to christ through the same mind set -- some hated life very much and prayed and cursed and spat at god over and over for many years to tempt god into killing them. so dont think because someone appears to be a pacifist as someone like me is labeled often. that i or another is afraid of death. for some of us it is by far easier to die than to live.

and i pray i in no way tempted my lord

[jewel4Christ]

hi roadwarrior -- im sure janet has her own words on this but let me give you my answer also.

christ and his apostles were warred against and the martyrs. why did they not wage war back -- surely god loved christ surely god loves the apostles and martyrs.
god could have said to the apostles and martyrs, since you love me and follow my footsteps i will shield you from all evil---which in a war is what we are trying to do protect out loved ones. but he chose not to.

now as far as lusting-- your spirit cannot be killed -and we are told to fear no man who can kill your body but not your soul. so when we defend our bodies with war, we are lusting after our flesh , because a war cannot kill your soul, so you are only trying to save bodies.

we are told to love our neighbor as ourself --- everyone is our neighbor--- how can we love our neighbor and drop bombs on him , we never drop bombs on ourself

peace roadwarrior - you have a very warm smile btw -- i assume thats you in your avatar

Amen, few.......

I could not of said it better myself.

I am not concerned with what men can do unto my flesh. My flesh is already dead.

peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

However, when it comes time to break the Philistines, or to destroy the Canaanites, he will use holy men such as Joshua and Caleb. He will send Jesus to lead the battle with them!

I will answer the rest of your post, tomorrow, for tonight, I feel very sad. God is going to judge ALL nations, by HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, the usa is as far from that as Iraq, for example,...and, soon, they will find out...and, Jesus said, "unless ye repent, ye shall likewise perish".

He will have the last word....the western church thinks that this nation is without correction, but, correction is coming, because God is not going to be mocked..whatsoever a man sow, also shall he reap.

INDIVIDUALLY, and COLLECTIVELY.


Those whom think that this nation is going to somehow play a endtime game exalted above the rest of the world are deceived.

peaceandlove,

janet

[pinky]

I'm curious, on a more personal level. If a criminal comes into your home, would you protect your children or watch while they harmed them? If you had opportunity to protect the innocent in whatever scenario, on the street a child is being abused by a criminal would you allow that to continue so you would not have to retaliate with the same violence to stop the criminal.

How can a person say with absolute certainty how they would react under such circumstances?

There are also plenty of powerful testimonies of faithful saints who had their homes 'invaded' by soldiers or 'barbaric enemies' and they did NOT physically resist, but dropped to their knees and prayed for these people which many times stirred compassion towards them and even resulted in conversions.

The best way to defeat an enemy is to make him your brother in Christ.

Is it not the same with war to protect the innocent and those unable to protect themselves?

No, apprehending or stopping a criminal is not the same thing as war.

Are you guys who are so against war saying the stronger more able bodied of civilizations should turn their backs and say well.... every man for himself, your on your own, cant use violence or kill so guess your out of luck?

First of all, wars are never truly waged for these reasons. Secondly, what are your thoughts on national soveriegnty?

And another thought. All that has been created, including men, belongs to God. He is the potter, men are the clay. If some of the clay is bad clay and God says to the good clay to destroy the bad clay, God would have the right to do so and we would have the right to do so because the potter gave us command to.

This gives the impression that perhaps you see the US as being the 'good clay', having the moral high ground? The Godly nation?

Also, where does scripture say that the good clay destroys the bad clay?

Basically being against all war is saying to the helpless of so many countries, yep, Jesus loves ya but I cant kill so I guess you will just have to suffer?

Can you please provide some NT verse to support this....... being that you invoke the Name of Christ in this line of thought.

Thank you in advance.


God bless.

[fewarechosen]

Jesus was not a governmental authority. .

jesus is the only governmental authority to ever be recognized.

god never changes

LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS

through the whole universe for ever and ever

so please dont say my lord is not a governmental authority

[cnw]

When Jesus was fighting(in the Spiritual sense) Satan during his 40 day fast, do you know where he quoted from??? Deuteronomy.

There is a lot of Scripture quoted in the NT from the OT and Jesus himself said I didn't come to abolish the law-that meant stop it-he came to fulfill it. There is more to the OT than the law anyway.

[pinky]

Hello Roadwarrior.

From history, I can see that the megalomaniacs who made war because they wanted to rule the whole world, could be accused of lust.

Can you see this applying to the US leadership in any way?

But what of those who defended themselves against the incoming warriors? Do you likewise accuse them of lust, or does a different rule apply to them?

Do you think the sovereign nations of Iraq and Afghanistan (who have never attacked the US) have a right to defend themselves against those who are attacking, invading and occupying their countries? Killing their loved ones and destroying their infrastructure?

Do you think that, (regardless of who one thinks is really responsible) it is entirely possible that the 9/11 attacks were allowed as a judgment against YOUR country? That God is raising up enemies to carry out His will against YOUR nation?

Or does that rule only apply to other nations?

sincerely,
pinky

[pinky]

jesus is the only governmental authority to ever be recognized.

god never changes

LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS

through the whole universe for ever and ever

so please dont say my lord is not a governmental authority

Absolutely!

God bless the seeds you plant in His Name.


I like to believe that this is a very basic and general understanding of our Christian faith and that all Christians understand this.


Let us not subvert the Kingship and exclusive authority and teachings of our Lord and God, Jesus Christ for the authority, kingship and teachings of mere mortal men.

Where have I seen this before?

Oh yeah........


1Sa 10:19 And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.



Seems to be an age old human weakness.


Love and Truth in Christ,
pinky

[chal]

Anyone who pays taxes in a country that is at war, is directly supporting that war, by financing it. Anyone who doesn't is not giving unto Caesar, what he is due.

how x why = what

[ProDeo]

but you didnt answer my question why did christ not spare his apostles -- he could have --they had no need to die , christ sacrificed himself already

why does he not spare the martyrs ?

god loves them more than we love anyone

I can think of 2 reasons immediately.

1) Perhaps you have heard what http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprian Cyprian said, "The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church".

2) The undeniable proof of Jesus's Resurrection for unbelievers. http://www.top-5000.nl/bible.htm

Ed

[Slug1]

Do you think the sovereign nations of Iraq and Afghanistan (who have never attacked the US) have a right to defend themselves against those who are attacking, invading and occupying their countries? Killing their loved ones and destroying their infrastructure?

Where do you get your information from. The guys that flew those planes received their terror training in A-stan.

The countries were not capable of defending themselves.

The loved ones being killed are the bad guys. Yes even bad guys are loved by someone but they're working for bigger bad guys who we're still hunting down and killing.

Destroying infrastructure??? Let me tell you something... I spent 8 million dollars in Iraq. That's IN CASH, crisp new $100 bills to rebuild schools, water purification facilities, clinics, roads, bridges, provide generators for towns. The children in Iraq hadn't attending proper school in over 30 years. Unless you were in Saddam's tight circle, Iraqis did not have clean water to drink for over 30 years. Did not have daily electricity from 30 years. Did not have access to information from outside the country for over 30 years. Was oppressed for over 30 years.

You say we destroyed the infrastructure??

When I got to Iraq the first time in 2003 there were maybe a total of 3 cars in a large town of 5000 people. When I left a year later there was a car for every third home. No TVs or radios when I arrived and when I left there was an antenna on every roof top. When we patrolled through the centers of towns where the markets were they might have a few vendors selling few fruits/veggies and MAYBE a meat market. When I left Iraq the markets were overflowing with food and meat hung from everywhere.

I have the pictures, I took thousands of photos.

The second time I went to Iraq, they had internet and cell phones and MUCH MUCH MORE!!!!

Please, listen to the truth of what we're doing over there!!!

I wrote this blog and placed it on this board in the blag section. It's called Why Does Interest Fall as Success Rises. You may have no interest in reading it but it is an interesting blog to read about Iraq.

Do you think that, (regardless of who one thinks is really responsible) it is entirely possible that the 9/11 attacks were allowed as a judgment against YOUR country? That God is raising up enemies to carry out His will against YOUR nation?

I've stated it in a few posts in this thread already. IMO, the attacks were allowed by God to get us to come to our senses to get within His will and be obedient to the threat to the world. Just like Nazi Germany was a thread to the world and to "His" people, the Jews... God used Japan to attack us to get us to stop hesitating and become decisive in the war.

Once we became obedient and stayed on the offense you may note that no more attacks came to our soil? Mere coincidence? I don't think so.

Both times God was attempting to get us to listen to His will for us as a nation with the power to swing our sword anywhere in the world and we hesitated or in recent history just took pot shots at the enemy that satan is using.

So this time He allowed the terrorists to attack us and once again get us to be obedient to His will and attack the people that satan is using. Note that since we became obedient we have not received any attacks on our soil.

If the next president pulls us off the attack, I'm sure God will punish us for that disobedience and allow the enemy to strike us on our soil again. Except it will be much worse then 9/11. Either to make sure we never forget and stay on the offense or because He's not gonna use us as the avengers against those who practice evil (Romans 13:4) any longer or for a time while we suffer His wrath for not staying obedient by remaining on the offense.

[ProDeo]

Hi Pinky,

Can you see this applying to the US leadership in any way?

Yes I can. It deserves a whole new thread about politics but in general one can say that nowadays US (sadly) is way off the principles of the Founding Fathers.

Let me now warn you in the most solemn manner. Observe good faith and justice toward all nations. Cultivate peace and harmony with all. The Nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest.
-— President George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

Do you think the sovereign nations of Iraq and Afghanistan (who have never attacked the US) have a right to defend themselves against those who are attacking, invading and occupying their countries? Killing their loved ones and destroying their infrastructure?

In fact Afghanistan did attack US on 9/11. The bin Laden guy had hijacked the whole country. And the US has been more then patience asking for the extradition of bin Laden and the Mullah Omar guy of the Taliban. When they refused the war started.

Iraq is another matter, never ever did Iraq threaten the US, how could Iraq ever do that with its rusty army? Remember the daily bombings over 10+ years because of the no-fly zones. What the US did was just the removal of a local dictator but promoted under total different and false pretenses and that on the sentiments of 9/11 to get its citizens behind this war. Without 9/11 there never would have been an Iraqi war.

Sorry if that offends Americans. But it isn't personal, it criticism on government. I feel strongly about it. But then this thread is a about war.

Do you think that, (regardless of who one thinks is really responsible) it is entirely possible that the 9/11 attacks were allowed as a judgment against YOUR country? That God is raising up enemies to carry out His will against YOUR nation?

Or does that rule only apply to other nations?

Good point Pinky.

Ed

[EarlyCall]

Where do you get your information from. The guys that flew those planes received their terror training in A-stan.

From the liberal, biased, lying media.

The countries were not capable of defending themselves.

The loved ones being killed are the bad guys. Yes even bad guys are loved by someone but they're working for bigger bad guys who we're still hunting down and killing.

Some would prefer the taliban were still in control terrorizing the 99% of the people.

Destroying infrastructure??? Let me tell you something... I spent 8 million dollars in Iraq. That's IN CASH, crisp new $100 bills to rebuild schools, water purification facilities, clinics, roads, bridges, provide generators for towns. The children in Iraq hadn't attending proper school in over 30 years. Unless you were in Saddam's tight circle, Iraqis did not have clean water to drink for over 30 years. Did not have daily electricity from 30 years. Did not have access to information from outside the country for over 30 years. Was oppressed for over 30 years.

Facts are little deterrent for some people. They prefer to believe the lies that suit their own thinking. And even when they hear the truth, they continue to spread the lies just the same.

You say we destroyed the infrastructure??

When I got to Iraq the first time in 2003 there were maybe a total of 3 cars in a large town of 5000 people. When I left a year later there was a car for every third home. No TVs or radios when I arrived and when I left there was an antenna on every roof top. When we patrolled through the centers of towns where the markets were they might have a few vendors selling few fruits/veggies and MAYBE a meat market. When I left Iraq the markets were overflowing with food and meat hung from everywhere.

I have the pictures, I took thousands of photos.

Wouldn't matter if this guy saw the pictures.

The second time I went to Iraq, they had internet and cell phones and MUCH MUCH MORE!!!!

Please, listen to the truth of what we're doing over there!!!

I wrote this blog and placed it on this board in the blag section. It's called Why Does Interest Fall as Success Rises. You may have no interest in reading it but it is an interesting blog to read about Iraq.

I've stated it in a few posts in this thread already. IMO, the attacks were allowed by God to get us to come to our senses to get within His will and be obedient to the threat to the world. Just like Nazi Germany was a thread to the world and to "His" people, the Jews... God used Japan to attack us to get us to stop hesitating and become decisive in the war.

Once we became obedient and stayed on the offense you may note that no more attacks came to our soil? Mere coincidence? I don't think so.

The terrorists want obama as president. I think he will be elected and I think we will find out just what we are in for. And yet the libs and dems will reach back and take hold of Bush and blame it on him just the same. But it won't matter.

Both times God was attempting to get us to listen to His will for us as a nation with the power to swing our sword anywhere in the world and we hesitated or in recent history just took pot shots at the enemy that satan is using.

So this time He allowed the terrorists to attack us and once again get us to be obedient to His will and attack the people that satan is using. Note that since we became obedient we have not received any attacks on our soil.

If the next president pulls us off the attack, I'm sure God will punish us for that disobedience and allow the enemy to strike us on our soil again. Except it will be much worse then 9/11. Either to make sure we never forget and stay on the offense or because He's not gonna use us as the avengers against those who practice evil (Romans 13:4) any longer or for a time while we suffer His wrath for not staying obedient by remaining on the offense.

Some people want to preach love and tell everyone how much they care about others, but they won't lift one finger to actually help those hurting at the hands of another.

You on the other hand actually did something to help those in need. And you made a tremendous difference in the lives of thousands upon thousands.

God bless you.

As a footnote, those on the plane that went down in the field in PA were thankfully not like some in this thread. It should be noted that those men that day were hardly interested in preaching the gospel of Christ to the terrorists nor should they have. But they were going to do whatever it took, including killing the terrorists in order to save others.

Thank God for people like that.

And thank God for people like you Slug (and that goes for the others on this board that have served this country). God bless you all.