Jesus says no to war!

[RoadWarrior]

guess that'll teach me to open my trap

It is not your fault JayHawk. You asked some good questions, but it was in the middle of a volatile situation.

Some of the forums here are more risky than others, and that is sort of by design. The mods work at keeping the hot stuff in certain areas, so that other places can be safe. New in Christ is an example of a place that the administration of this board decided needs to be a safe place.

Since there are people who want to talk about controversial subjects, the admins created Contro - pretty wise actually.

I hope this doesn't turn you sour on the board as a whole. I can see that you are fairly new.

Feel free to try your questions in another forum.

[ProjectPeter]

whats kinda funny is since your all of the same mind set and im obviously like debating 4 of you , but yet none would even reply to this,

notice most of you are probably in the military or such
and probably they ingrain that so deep in your head and they make patriotism flow so deep. make you loyal to a country that is not loyal to god, so instead of being able to face it, many wish to look away and pat eachother on the back and say good job. you value the man next to you more than your enemy and in so doing you disobey,watch what gods gonna do to your country no matter how hard you try to stop it. you strive in vain, then you come in here and attack me, acting as if you are warriors.

god does not care about your nation, he will show you exactly what he thinks of your tanks and bombs, and he will show you what he thinks of you placing faith in them.

NOTICE EVERYONE.... Simple truth. There is a time for peace. Also a time for war. What these people refuse to accept is that there is a time for all things... even war. The fact that Few won't respond to that passage is that very truth. Do with it what you will.

he will show you what it means to love your neighbor as yourself -- again i say do you bomb yourself

when you can realize how utterly hard and impossible that is to do, then you will hate your life like told to in scripture, untill then cuddle up with your family, work your jobs to pay for your houses and toys, guard your flesh with all manner of things because you covet it, and let the world keep spinning.

11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

he came not to bring peace but a sword

Well no... let's notice the truth here Hoss. There's a time for peace. Also a time for war. You won't acknowledge that fact because OH MY!!!! HOW CAN IT BE!!! Problem is.. you tear up Scripture and by and large rape it so as to fit your little cause. How sweet it would be if there was never war. There is a time when that will be so. But until that time you live in Never Never Land with little old Peter Pan. It's a great world I suppose but problem is... it's MAKE BELIEVE. There is no such place.

I long for that day as does many a soldier. But when I see folks like you who call it a sin to wage that war.... says who? Your doctrine is so full of holes I can't even count them all. Grab a verse here and grab a verse there and pretend it backs you up? Yeah.... like I've shown already.... you are so far from context it is really and truly sad.

[jewel4Christ]

Great questions Bill! The seed -

the good seeds are the children of the kingdom
the bad seeds are the children of the wicked one

the good seeds are planted by the Son of Man
the bad seeds are planted by the enemy, the Devil

The reapers are the angels.

He doesn't tell us who the servants are, but they are not the "wheat" are they!

It is not the job of the wheat to tend the field. It is the job of the Lord.

But I completely fail to see how this parable has anything to do with the subject of war.

It has to do with this subject, because some are wanting to pluck up the tares before Jesus has said the time is up.

The time is up, when HE says so, not men.

When is that time? It certainly is NOT when men decide.

Look at the parable again.

peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

That is another gross misrepresentation of Scripture truth be told. Jesus is talking about tares sowed among the believers and He is speaking of the church... the body. He isn't speaking of the world as a whole.

Let's call this what it is. Taking Scripture and trying to make it say what you want it to say so as to side with your point and doctrine.

Again, the parable itself says the field is the WORLD, not the church, so I would disagree with you.

Why not let the bible interpret itself?

peaceandlove,

janet

[ProjectPeter]

Roadwarrior,

If you believe this, you have not read this thread.

No one is saying that a person whom is NOT agreeing with us is not saved..

What we are saying is that at the point of salvation, we do not yet understand all things..God leads us to grow in grace and in knowledge...and, yes, once you reach a certain point, He teaches you to put away the childish/ot ways.

That does NOT mean you are not saved..heck, I am sure there are things YOU understand that I don't..does that mean you would judge me unsaved, or even question in your mind to whether I am saved or not?

Good grief, salvation is a free gift.

WE do not earn it by head knowledge...and, btw, that is the way of the pharasee's..to whom I DESPISE...so, please, for future reference do not put ME in that category.

peaceandlove,

janet

What thread are you in fact reading Jewell?

[jewel4Christ]

38The field is the world

from christ in the simplest of simple terms, and we get accused of altering scripture.


the fig tree is the parable of the church --- and the fig tree gets shaken of its untimely figs, before the reaping -- 2 different things



and now lets really call it what it is

13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Yep, I actually answerd that last post before I even read this one, but yep, I agree, the bible interprets itself, we don't have to guess...and, if they accuse us of misinterpretting plain scripture, I guess that is for them to judge...

peaceandlove,

janet

[RoadWarrior]

Roadwarrior,

If you believe this, you have not read this thread.

No one is saying that a person whom is NOT agreeing with us is not saved..

What we are saying is that at the point of salvation, we do not yet understand all things..God leads us to grow in grace and in knowledge...and, yes, once you reach a certain point, He teaches you to put away the childish/ot ways.

That does NOT mean you are not saved..heck, I am sure there are things YOU understand that I don't..does that mean you would judge me unsaved, or even question in your mind to whether I am saved or not?

Good grief, salvation is a free gift.

WE do not earn it by head knowledge...and, btw, that is the way of the pharasee's..to whom I DESPISE...so, please, for future reference do not put ME in that category.

peaceandlove,

janet

Thank you for this post, Janet. In reality, you have much good things to say, and I hope that you will continue to study and seek the Lord.

We are not saved by our knowledge, but to have and use knowledge is not a sin. We do not have to check our brains at the door of the church. God gave us minds for a purpose. Yes, the mind is the battlefield, and Satan seeks to control your mind, but we do have ways of combating his trickery.

Do not be too quick to discard the Old Testament. The words in those books speak of Jesus. A great deal of what we know about the character of God comes from reading and studying those ancient writings. It contains a great deal more than just laws to obey.

[ProjectPeter]

Again, the parable itself says the field is the WORLD, not the church, so I would disagree with you.

Why not let the bible interpret itself?

peaceandlove,

janet

Sure you disagree. You haven't even a clue what the passage and chapter is about. It is about EVANGELIZING. It isn't about how nations conduct themselves. It is about the END of TIME. Not about what you twist it to be. It is about advancing the kingdom. NEWS FLASH. Husein would never allow it. Today because of that war you despise.... the kingdom of heaven is being advanced in Iraq. So you figure it out.

[Alaska]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska
Gen. 4:

23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.

When a man takes the life of another man, another made in the image of God like himself, he hurts himself with a grievous wound to his soul.
Since the NT has come into effect, the people of God will NEVER again kill another fellow image of God.

Focus on the need of the lost, not on the termination of such a one because of his lost state that compels him to do evil.
A killer is sending many of his victims or targets or hostile combatants or whatever you want to call them to hell because they will have no chance left to be converted to Jesus.

Like it or not, the love toward the aggressor, not to kill him, is what Jesus is calling for as a testimony of what he chooses to show the world through his followers what love does.

Romans 13 says to shed his blood. That's NT. Even so, if you advocate complete forgiveness, then there can be no prison or any other form of punishment. Every man has a chance to come to God. So many pacifist here say "God can protect me if he desires" yet, they say others can be killed before their time. Anyway, both the NT and OT give government not just the right, but the responsibility to protect their citizens and to use the death penalty.

Are you supposing that Christ's teachings and the doctrines of the nations of the world are compatible? Christ said they are not. The world will hate the followers of Christ for standing in favour of the policies of His Kingdom that the worldly find irresponsible and foolish. So are we to take on the mindset that if Jesus' teaching on pacifism don't seem to be practical to enforce on the unsaved, then we, the saved, are not to observe those teachings? Forget "the world", which is on a course to destruction, and side with Jesus!!
The NT does not sanction as "right" what the nations do, which all are under Satans influence, but rather recognises that God uses the powers that be in earthly governments to fulfill his will. And at the same time we see those same earthly governments being used mightily of Satan to do many evil things such as recognise a homosexual couple as "married" for example.

It is the Christians duty to discern which of the ordinances of man can be submitted to and which of them cause the Christian to deny their King.
Submitting to a carnal nation such as the US that implies that their young citizens should risk their lives killing others made in God's image is by no means spiritual. It is an extremely grave error to understand Rom 13 to mean the Christian is obligated to shed blood. Hitler would have loved that.

[ProjectPeter]

guess that'll teach me to open my trap

You open it any time and often. Even when we mess it up... we can still learn.

[ProjectPeter]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fewarechosen
whats kinda funny is since your all of the same mind set and im obviously like debating 4 of you , but yet none would even reply to this,

1. You directly asked my view on this matter about 200 pages ago -I gave you a Direct answer -you didn't respond -what is my mindset ?
2, I am not here to -DEBATE, PLAY, OR make show of anything
3, You didn't answer my question -and I DID respond anyway -it appears you added to it after I quoted it though

yea that wasnt directed at you bill, but i guess its a casuality of war -- you were actually answering and discussing


Quote:
notice most of you are probably in the military or such
and probably they ingrain that so deep in your head and they make patriotism flow so deep. make you loyal to a country that is not loyal to god, so instead of being able to face it, many wish to look away and pat eachother on the back and say good job. you value the man next to you more than your enemy and in so doing you disobey,watch what gods gonna do to your country no matter how hard you try to stop it. you strive in vain, then you come in here and attack me, acting as if you are warriors.
Thats very Interesting S - I never expected a remark like that from you

yea i can see why - and im not saying its all but i see it alot, and every nation with a army uses it, but feel free to tell me where im wrong -- but dont you think its a little curious that most pro war people in this thread are military ? sorry if it sounds harsh but i believe it needed to be said.

Quote:
god does not care about your nation, he will show you exactly what he thinks of your tanks and bombs, and he will show you what he thinks of you placing faith in them.
sounds like something Bin laden would say.
But isn't that sort of blowing things out of proportion ? faith in bombs and tanks?

he might but he wouldnt say it to himself also- i say that to every nation. you reap what you sow - you live with tanks and bombs you die with tanks and bombs.

and dont forget bin laden was only doing what god gave him authority to do

if there is no faith in bombs why have them ?

and do you actually think god favors one earthly nation over another ? there is greek nor jew


Quote:
he will show you what it means to love your neighbor as yourself -- again i say do you bomb yourself
If your neighbor would 'love' to be raped by you -should you go rape your neighbor ?

rape isnt love, so i dont really follow that one

Quote:
when you can realize how utterly hard and impossible that is to do, then you will hate your life like told to in scripture, untill then cuddle up with your family, work your jobs to pay for your houses and toys, guard your flesh with all manner of things because you covet it, and let the world keep spinning.
Do you REALLY know me ?
Also Easy to say when one does not know Family/children - Jesus does, what did he say concerning children ? Would he find it OK to harm or allow a child be harmed.
You know, every child born has a death sentence -It's part of this life, and a part of Faith.

funny thing is , is this includes myself too i do the saaaame thing - i still love my life, and i need to get over it

bill when this country bombs another - do you see thier little children burned up and limbless ? so its ok that their kids are burnt up , but its not good if ours are ?

you cant have it both ways -- its either good for both groups of kids to be burnt up or neither.

and we can start a whole other thread on why people have kids which i think i will - not saying i wont ever have one - but seriously whats the point ? you want a little piece of you running around ? you want hugs and kisses from someone who unconditionally loves you ?
all greed.


i bring up kids because everyone is like well id die-- but ill kill someone for my kid, and that is just so wrong on so many levels and satan loves to use that one, every kid is to be treated the same , period. doesnt matter if its yours or bin ladans, how easily we dismiss them as casualties and say well their parents wage war on us. lets be realistic for a second, when one of those kids pulls a bomb fragment out of daddys head that has USA stamped on it -- do you not think he is gonna grow up to hate the usa. your not solving problems your making them with war.


Quote:
11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

he came not to bring peace but a sword
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

i completely agree



Quote:
edited out
wow

that wasnt directed at all towards you bill.
and yea all this was probably wrong for me to say, but somehow it still feel it needed to be said.

i figured i was talking to soldiers and soldiers are tough, they are warriors , so whats a few words gonna do to them.

now do i owe an apology -- well im gonna have to pray on that, right now i feel its something that needed to be said to get to the heart of the issue.

i can look at it this way isheal is my brother , and some people are saying -- yea your brother sinned lets go blow him and his children up. so if they can promote the killing of people. then surely they can deal with a few words. for i dont preach the waging of war and the promotion of blood shed. i say we need to love eachother.

Is there a time for WAR?

[RoadWarrior]

It has to do with this subject, because some are wanting to pluck up the tares before Jesus has said the time is up.

The time is up, when HE says so, not men.

When is that time? It certainly is NOT when men decide.

Look at the parable again.

peaceandlove,

janet

Janet, I know the parable well. It is not about war. It is about the Kingdom of God. Spend some time in Matthew 13 and see what you can learn about the similarities between all the parables in that group.

[Alaska]

Is there a time for WAR?

You mean for a Christian?

Of course not! Haven't you read what Jesus said?

[RoadWarrior]

When I was in Fallujah for 3 months back in 2003 the spiritual battle was just as strong as the physical battle. satan had a strangle hold on that city more so then any other area I was in while in Iraq. Only my Christian brothers sensed this while even non-Christian brothers said stuff like, "This place even feels evil." They just didn't know just how correct they were.

Hi Slug,

It is such a blessing to me to hear you say this, and to know that I was even then praying for you - and I didn't even know you. In times of intercession, I knew also that evil stranglehold.

In the very beginning of the war, I knew that it was a spiritual battle that was being waged. It still is.

I still pray.

[ProjectPeter]

lol PP i took it down because they took some posts down , so you might want to pull that one

but im happy to discuss it with you , but im sure they have their reasons.

i wasnt trying to keep some war going or something

and yes i do totally believe there is a time for war

I see that but no... Scripture is Scripture and they want to quote it and try and make it fit then let's party. There is a time for war and a time for peace and God's in control of that when it comes to nations... or He is not. Moment of truth and even folks that hate war (I do to as do most soldiers) have to face some very biblical facts or just play pretend. I suspect pretend is a safer world for them.