Why Satan is not bound and in the pit.

[quiet dove]

What is he bound from doing? That is the core question. A secondary (yet equally important) question is: is Satan held in a literal prison or is it a spiritual prison?

Paul

Satan is bound from his abilities to deceive, when men sin they can't say "the Devil made me do it". And what difference does it make if the chains are physical or spiritual. I would assume they are the same type chains that hold some of the demons now bound.

Rev 9:14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates."

I mean all Christ has to do is speak the words, "Satan you can't move or do anything", period. It makes no difference what the chains are made out of or where the pit is, when Christ send him there and binds him, a sent he will be and a bound he will be.

[vinsight4u8]

Chapter 20 can't happen until ch 19 is over, for "they" that get thrones in ch 20 come from the 19 battle.

"I saw thrones, and they sat..." (20:4) Rev.

Who?
Check ch 19.

[wpm]

Satan is bound from his abilities to deceive, when men sin they can't say "the Devil made me do it". And what difference does it make if the chains are physical or spiritual. I would assume they are the same type chains that hold some of the demons now bound.

Rev 9:14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates."

I mean all Christ has to do is speak the words, "Satan you can't move or do anything", period. It makes no difference what the chains are made out of or where the pit is, when Christ send him there and binds him, a sent he will be and a bound he will be.

Yes, deceive the ethnos or Gentiles no more. The veil of deception is lifted. The Gentiles are now free to take ahold of Christ. The kingdom of darkness is spiritually chained today - not with physical chains but spiritual. The kingdom of God has secured a curtailed movement of Satan and his minions within his backyard.

Jude supports the view of a current binding of the whole kingdom of darkness, in v 6, when he says,“the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlastingdesmois(Strong’s 1199) (or) chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”

2 Peter 2:4 closely correlates with Jude v6, saying, “God spared not the angels that sinned, but tartaroo (or)‘cast them down to hell’, and delivered them 'intochains’ of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.”

This passage is an obvious mirror of Jude verse 6, describing the spiritual restrains that the whole demonic realm is currently subject to, up until the judgment

Paul

[Mograce2U]

It seems that such chains of darkness under which Satan's kingdom is held implies that there is no light from God present there. The devil's being cast out of heaven into the earth means he has no access to the throne of God to either accuse the brethren or hear the plans and purposes of God. The spiritually blind are held in this darkness too until the light of the gospel shines on them. Since he can't know what God is doing then he can't thwart that work either. I think that his working the crucifixion is proof that he was clueless as to what would transpire there. His access to men is only thru their sin, he cannot oppose their good works, nor can he stand against true faith and the prayers of the saints.

It would seem there is a shift of power in the world in that the power of God is made available to men who have the light of God's word in their hearts. And no light nor power is available in the kingdom of darkness that can overcome it. Rather the light we have chases the darkness away, making his kingdom smaller and smaller... Taking away the fear of death from men means they have no reason to fear him or serve him at all.

If the strongman had not been bound in these chains then his goods couldn't be stolen from him.

[ShirleyFord]

Satan is bound from his abilities to deceive, when men sin they can't say "the Devil made me do it". And what difference does it make if the chains are physical or spiritual. I would assume they are the same type chains that hold some of the demons now bound.

Rev 9:14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates."

I mean all Christ has to do is speak the words, "Satan you can't move or do anything", period. It makes no difference what the chains are made out of or where the pit is, when Christ send him there and binds him, a sent he will be and a bound he will be.

Oh QD, That is exactly what my expert "Endtime Bible Scholars" taught me and led me to believe for 30 years or more about Satan's binding that prevents him from deceiving the nations. And they used Scriptures too to prove their claim (one of which is the same Scripture that you used here). So I believed them. After all, when I applied their own simple rules on how to know the difference between false teaching and a teaching that is absolutely true and of God: "Scripture".

1. false doctrine - No Scripture
2. true doctrine - Backed up by Scripture

While they used Scripture to back up their interpretation of Rev. 20;1-3 - "Jesus binds the devil at His Second Coming for 1000 years to prevent the literal Gentile nations of Matthew 25 (at the judgement of the nations to determine which of the modern-day nations are fit to enter into Israel's restored kingdom) from being deceived to sin against Israel - none of the Scriptures they used said what they claimed they said.

Shirley

[vinsight4u8]

Oh QD, That is exactly what my expert "Endtime Bible Scholars" taught me and led me to believe for 30 years or more about Satan's binding that prevents him from deceiving the nations. And they used Scriptures too to prove their claim (one of which is the same Scripture that you used here). So I believed them. After all, when I applied their own simple rules on how to know the difference between false teaching and a teaching that is absolutely true and of God: "Scripture".

1. false doctrine - No Scripture
2. true doctrine - Backed up by Scripture

While they used Scripture to back up their interpretation of Rev. 20;1-3 - "Jesus binds the devil at His Second Coming for 1000 years to prevent the literal Gentile nations of Matthew 25 (at the judgement of the nations to determine which of the modern-day nations are fit to enter into Israel's restored kingdom) from being deceived to sin against Israel - none of the Scriptures they used said what they claimed they said.

Shirley

The OT shows that the LORD will reign on the earth and during that time Israel - Zion will be at peace.

If you take just common ways of writing...when someone says "they"- it means the author has already told you the information needed as to identify the intended meaning.

Rev. 20:4 has - "...they sat..."
So- 20:1-3 didn't tell you who?


Rev. 19-20 events run consecutively.

19:1
"And after these things.."

/here come in order things

So you must check ch 19.

[quiet dove]

While they used Scripture to back up their interpretation of Rev. 20;1-3 - "Jesus binds the devil at His Second Coming for 1000 years to prevent the literal Gentile nations of Matthew 25 (at the judgement of the nations to determine which of the modern-day nations are fit to enter into Israel's restored kingdom) from being deceived to sin against Israel - none of the Scriptures they used said what they claimed they said.
Shirley

I do not understand what you are saying about Matthew 25. I don't see those verses speaking of separating a whole nation from a whole nation, but the peoples from those nations, which is simply saying, those who chose Christ will enter the Millennial kingdom, those who continued to deny Him will not. Don't see any contradiction there with anything in Rev and Satan being bound and not a source of deception, at least not until he is released.

Oh, I think I have to go, thunder happening, again.

[ShirleyFord]

I do not understand what you are saying about Matthew 25. I don't see those verses speaking of separating a whole nation from a whole nation, but the peoples from those nations, which is simply saying, those who chose Christ will enter the Millennial kingdom, those who continued to deny Him will not. Don't see any contradiction there with anything in Rev and Satan being bound and not a source of deception, at least not until he is released.

Right, only individuals out of those whole nations (at the Matt 25 Judgement of the Nations before Christ) "who chose Christ will enter the Millennial kingdom. " Thanks for the clarification, QD.

Now that is specifically what my "Expert Endtime Bible Prophecy Scholars" taught me beginning in the Summer of 1974 on one of the nights that a university-educated, seminary-trained and degreed, Assemblies of God ordained and licensed natural-born Jew born in the nation of Israel-evangelist preaching a week's penticost revival meeting, a converted Jew to Christ, called himself a completed Jew and not a Christian. And he wore the priestly attire of Baptist preachers: suit and white shirt and shined black leather shoes, without the tie. But no Baptist preacher I'd ever heard preached on the Second Coming of Christ like he did.

He added this one detail to the Matthew 25 Sheep and Goats Judgement of the Nations to the explanation you gave;

"Jesus said, 'as much as ye have done it to the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me'"

That Messianic Jew back in 1974 identified "my brethren" as natural-born Jews.


Shirley

[BibleProphecy]

The thousand years, the Millennium, will occur after the Seventh Trumpet (1 Thess.4:16-17), AFTER the marriage of the Lamb has taken place in heaven, and DIRECTLY AFTER the battle of Armageddon.


AFTER the battle of Armageddon, during the Millennium, in Israel, in the valley of Hamongog, Gog (Satan) and all his multitude will be buried; for seven months Gog and all his multitude will be buried (Eze.39:11-12).


In death Gog/Satan is then bound in the bottomless pit throughout the Millennium (Re.20:1-3).


During the Millennium, they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons; they shall burn them with fire seven years (Eze.39:9-10).


During the Millennium, the KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS (Re.19:16 - Jesus) will rule all nations with a rod of iron (Re.12:5, Re.19:15).


God will spare ONE-SIXTH part (Eze.39:2) of the heathen who will go into the Millennium. They will repopulate the earth (Re.20:8) their numbers growing as the sand of the sea (Re.20:8).


During the Millennium, every one that is left of all the nations (Eze.39:2) WHICH CAME AGAINST Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles (Zech.14:16). And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain (Zech.14:17). And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles (Zech.14:18). This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles (Zech.14:19).


The Lamb’s wife (Re.19:7), the saints of the most High (Dan.7:22), the church (1 Cor.10:32) throughout all ages (Eph.3:21), will live AND reign WITH Christ throughout the thousand years.


During the Millennium, the immortal saints will judge the world (Dan.7:22, 1 Cor.6:2-3, Re.20:4).


During the Millennium, the saints of the most High (Christ Jesus’ wife) are the glory set among the heathen (Eph.39:21).




Patricia

[John146]

Satan is bound from his abilities to deceive, when men sin they can't say "the Devil made me do it".

Didn't we already go over this? People have never been able to say "the devil made me do it", have they? Eve tried. God didn't exactly find her argument to be convincing, right?

And what difference does it make if the chains are physical or spiritual. I would assume they are the same type chains that hold some of the demons now bound.

Rev 9:14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates."

I mean all Christ has to do is speak the words, "Satan you can't move or do anything", period. It makes no difference what the chains are made out of or where the pit is, when Christ send him there and binds him, a sent he will be and a bound he will be.

Are the fallen angels able to move and go around trying to deceive people? Of course they are. Yet Jude 1:6 and 2 Peter 2:4 both say they are in chains, reserved for judgment. It seems to me it matters a great deal whether the chains are spiritual or physical. Clearly, spiritual chains don't completely keep spiritual beings from moving around or trying to deceive people.

[John146]

I do not understand what you are saying about Matthew 25. I don't see those verses speaking of separating a whole nation from a whole nation, but the peoples from those nations, which is simply saying, those who chose Christ will enter the Millennial kingdom, those who continued to deny Him will not. Don't see any contradiction there with anything in Rev and Satan being bound and not a source of deception, at least not until he is released.

Oh, I think I have to go, thunder happening, again.

Matthew 25:46 says of those who deny Christ, "these shall go away into everlasting punishment". And it says of those who accept Christ: "but the righteous into life eternal.". Why do you believe that these believers who enter into the supposed future millennial kingdom will die when the scripture says they enter into "life eternal"? Also, didn't Paul say that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:50)? So, why do you have flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God?

It should be clear that Matthew 25:31-46 portrays the day of judgment when unbelievers will be "cast into everlasting fire" and "go away into everlasting punishment" (Matt 25:41,46) and believers will enter into the Father's kingdom for eternity (Matt 25:34,46). We can see that Revelation 20:15 speaks of the same event as Revelation 20:15, unless you think being cast into "everlasting fire" is somehow different than being cast into the lake of fire.

[quiet dove]

Didn't we already go over this? People have never been able to say "the devil made me do it", have they? Eve tried. God didn't exactly find her argument to be convincing, right?

I think we have pretty much been over all of it.
The point is not whether God thought it a good defense, he obviously did not just like if you were to slap me and I slapped you back, God asking me about it and me saying "well he hit me first" is not going to be an acceptable defense for myself.

Are the fallen angels able to move and go around trying to deceive people? Of course they are. Yet Jude 1:6 and 2 Peter 2:4 both say they are in chains, reserved for judgment. It seems to me it matters a great deal whether the chains are spiritual or physical. Clearly, spiritual chains don't completely keep spiritual beings from moving around or trying to deceive people.

My point is that what the chains are made of is irrelevant. When Jesus forbids Satan to do something no chains are probably even needed, Satan can't do it. Making this a debate about what the chains are actually made of is just side tracking from the truth taught, that Satan will be unable to work deception on mankind.

[quiet dove]

Matthew 25:46 says of those who deny Christ, "these shall go away into everlasting punishment". And it says of those who accept Christ: "but the righteous into life eternal.". Why do you believe that these believers who enter into the supposed future millennial kingdom will die when the scripture says they enter into "life eternal"? Also, didn't Paul say that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:50)? So, why do you have flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God?

It should be clear that Matthew 25:31-46 portrays the day of judgment when unbelievers will be "cast into everlasting fire" and "go away into everlasting punishment" (Matt 25:41,46) and believers will enter into the Father's kingdom for eternity (Matt 25:34,46). We can see that Revelation 20:15 speaks of the same event as Revelation 20:15, unless you think being cast into "everlasting fire" is somehow different than being cast into the lake of fire.

You and I entered eternal life when we were saved but yet here we are, still mortal. And I do not have flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God, yet again, you and I are flesh and blood and we are citizens of the kingdom of God.

But I am not arguing with your point. Even Matthew speaking of the time of Rev 20:15, after the Millennium, it still does not change that a Millennial reign is taught elsewhere in scripture. I don't really use those verses in Matthew for Millennial support and just was not thinking about what I was doing. I was just thinking about the Millennial but at the same time thinking about the nations not being nations as a whole but peoples of the nations. Which looking back is probably why I got confused with Shirley post and because of a coming storm I did not take the time to figure out where I was at.

[John146]

You and I entered eternal life when we were saved but yet here we are, still mortal. And I do not have flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God, yet again, you and I are flesh and blood and we are citizens of the kingdom of God.

I understand what you're saying, but you don't believe Matt 25:34 and 1 Cor 15:50 are speaking of our spiritually entering the kingdom of God, do you? You believe they each are speaking of something that occurs in the future, right? Yes, we are spiritually in the kingdom of God now. Only spiritually. Our flesh and blood is not in the kingdom. Our flesh and blood will die one day (if Christ doesn't come first). But there will be a future manifestation of the kingdom where it will no longer be side by side with the kingdom of darkness (see Matthew 13:24-30,36-43) and where there will be no more sin and death. That is the kingdom that Matthew 25:34 and 1 Corinthians 15:50 both say we will inherit when Christ returns.

But I am not arguing with your point. Even Matthew speaking of the time of Rev 20:15, after the Millennium, it still does not change that a Millennial reign is taught elsewhere in scripture.

Wait a minute. Why brush aside Matthew 25:31-46 in favor of other passages that you think refer to a future millennial reign? That passage does not allow for a future millennial reign if you take it at face value. It says that when Christ comes He will separate all people into two groups. He will give entrance to believers into the kingdom prepared for them before the foundation of the world and they will have "life eternal". Unbelievers will be cast into everlasting fire. This all happens immediately following Christ's return. So, who are the mortals that would populate a future millennial kingdom in this case? Matthew 25:31-46 does not allow for such a time period to take place.

I don't really use those verses in Matthew for Millennial support and just was not thinking about what I was doing.

You can't use Matthew 25:31-46 to support premil at all so it's not surprising when premils don't want to talk much about that passage.

I was just thinking about the Millennial but at the same time thinking about the nations not being nations as a whole but peoples of the nations. Which looking back is probably why I got confused with Shirley post and because of a coming storm I did not take the time to figure out where I was at.

All I know is that I don't believe you can read Matthew 25:31-46 objectively and come to the conclusion that there will be a future earthly millennial reign of Christ on the earth where people will still be sinning and dying.

Again, everyone will be divided into two groups. One group inherits the kingdom of God and "life eternal", which Paul says flesh and blood cannot inherit. I understand that we are already in the kingdom of God spiritually, but that isn't what Matthew 25:34 and 1 Cor 15:50 are speaking about. The other group is cast into everlasting fire for everlasting punishment. This leaves no mortals with whom to populate a supposed earthly millennial kingdom.

[Firstfruits]

The thousand years, the Millennium, will occur after the Seventh Trumpet (1 Thess.4:16-17), AFTER the marriage of the Lamb has taken place in heaven, and DIRECTLY AFTER the battle of Armageddon.


AFTER the battle of Armageddon, during the Millennium, in Israel, in the valley of Hamongog, Gog (Satan) and all his multitude will be buried; for seven months Gog and all his multitude will be buried (Eze.39:11-12).


In death Gog/Satan is then bound in the bottomless pit throughout the Millennium (Re.20:1-3).


During the Millennium, they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons; they shall burn them with fire seven years (Eze.39:9-10).


During the Millennium, the KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS (Re.19:16 - Jesus) will rule all nations with a rod of iron (Re.12:5, Re.19:15).


God will spare ONE-SIXTH part (Eze.39:2) of the heathen who will go into the Millennium. They will repopulate the earth (Re.20:8) their numbers growing as the sand of the sea (Re.20:8).


During the Millennium, every one that is left of all the nations (Eze.39:2) WHICH CAME AGAINST Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles (Zech.14:16). And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain (Zech.14:17). And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles (Zech.14:18). This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles (Zech.14:19).


The Lamb’s wife (Re.19:7), the saints of the most High (Dan.7:22), the church (1 Cor.10:32) throughout all ages (Eph.3:21), will live AND reign WITH Christ throughout the thousand years.


During the Millennium, the immortal saints will judge the world (Dan.7:22, 1 Cor.6:2-3, Re.20:4).


During the Millennium, the saints of the most High (Christ Jesus’ wife) are the glory set among the heathen (Eph.39:21).




Patricia

If the millennium is after the seventh trumpet, how does the time for the dead take place before the millennium is finished since judgment takes place after the millennium is finished?

Events of the seventh trumpet
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Is judgment before the millennium or after?

Firstfruits