Is "democracy" the beast government?

[jewel4Christ]

Additionally, if the Antichrist is a system of government, specifically democracy, does that mean that the Antichrist existed before Christ? The Greeks were practicing democratic forms of governance prior to the birth of Christ.

Yep, now, we are seeing it in what the bible call's "the image of the beast".

Have a good day..and, God bless.

peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

But look elsewhere.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

Now Paul had ample opportunity in this non-symbolic writing to tell us about a system or "them", "they", "whatever." His non-symbolic language sounds pretty much like a man eh?

Hi PP,

As I have already stated, I am not against the idea that this end time "beastly system" will not a literal king over it.

In fact, I am moreso persuaded that it will play out just like in times of OLD..whereas in times of old, King Neb was that king, but, there were also many kings over time, that played the same role. Pharoah was one.

I just do not believe it will be a literal stone temple that he will defile, but the new covenant, fulfillment, of a man sitting in the temple of God, the true temple, the assembly of the believers. In some ways, this is already being accomplished by false teachers whom are denying the blood that bought them, by denying the new covenant...but, it is not in it's fullness yet...for as I see it, it will culminate until it is blasphemy against the holy spirit.

peaceandlove,

janet

peaceandlove,

janet

[pinky]

Hi sis.

I tend to see democracy as one of several vehicles that is being used to help usher in the beast kingdom.

Love you in Christ,
pinky

[jewel4Christ]

That sword Jesus wields... the end result will be a lot of dead folk. Lots of them. He's not wielding the "Word." This sword slays men.

We agree there will be dead bodies, etc.

It is in HOW it is accomplished that we are disagreeing on.

Here is how it will be accomplished according to the word of God, as I see it, and as many other christians, also......as it was in the PAST, so shall it be in the future....reaping and sowing:

2 Chron 36

14Furthermore, all the officials of the priests and the people were very unfaithful following all the abominations of the nations; and they defiled the house of the LORD


(this is the abomination of desolation, as it occurred in the old covenant shadow. In the new covenant REALITY, it will be in the same way, but by the spiritual fulfillment, meaning, it won't be a physical house again, but within the confounds of God's spiritual house...and, men are defiling the temple of God, everyday...through their false teachings, etc..and, through their acts of rebellion against the Lord)

which He had sanctified in Jerusalem. 15 The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent R792 word to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place; 16 but they continually mocked R793 the messengers of God, despised R794 His words and scoffed at His prophets, until R795 the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, until there was no remedy. 17 Therefore R796 He brought up against them the king of the Chaldeans who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion on young man or virgin, old man or infirm; He gave them all into his hand. 18 All R797 the articles of the house of God, great and small, and the treasures of the house of the LORD, and the treasures of the king and of his officers, he brought them all to Babylon. 19 Then they R798 burned the house of God and broke down the wall of Jerusalem, and burned all its fortified buildings with fire and destroyed all its valuable articles. 20 Those who had escaped from the sword he carried R799 away to Babylon;


Same is what is coming today, for God will NOT be mocked, whatsover a man sow, also shall he reap:

Gal 6:
The R260 one who is taught the R261 word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7 Do R262 not be deceived, God R263 is not mocked; for whatever R264 a man sows, this he will also reap. 8 For R265 the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap destruction, R266 but the R267 one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let R268 us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do R269 not grow weary. 10 So then, while R270 F106 we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household R271 of the R272 faith.


When you break the law of love, you will reap the rewards for it, it is that plain, and that simple.

peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

Hi sis.

I tend to see democracy as one of several vehicles that is being used to help usher in the beast kingdom.

Love you in Christ,
pinky

Hi Pinky,

Yes, I agree...there are many. However, I do see that there is this huge push through "democracy" to spread this beastly system. Consider:

A few clips from Condalisa.....in her recent speach:

Yet America and our allies were blessed with visionary leaders who did not lose their way. They created the great NATO alliance to contain and eventually erode Soviet power. They helped to establish the United Nations and created the international legal framework for this and other institutions that have served the world well for more than 50 years. They provided billions in aid to rebuild Europe and much of Asia. They built an international economic system based on free trade and free markets to spread prosperity to every corner of the globe. And they confronted the ideology and propaganda of our enemies with a message of hope, and with the truth. And in the end - though the end was long in coming - their vision prevailed.

The bible is clear that those whom preach "hope" for this world, are deceived..it is doomed to destruction, because it is of a fallen, and sinful state.

I believe it is democracy that is behind the push of man's last chance at this FALSE hope..

Another quote:

In these momentous times, American diplomacy has three great tasks. First, we will unite the community of democracies in building an international system that is based on our shared values and the rule of law. Second, we will strengthen the community of democracies to fight the threats to our common security and alleviate the hopelessness that feeds terror. And third, we will spread freedom and democracy throughout the globe. That is the mission that President Bush has set for America in the world -- and the great mission of American diplomacy today.

They work in vain!

NATO -- and the European Union -- and our democratic allies in East Asia and around the world will be our strongest partners in this vital work. The United States will also continue to work to support and uphold the system of international rules and treaties that allow us to take advantage of our freedom, to build our economies, and to keep us safe and secure.

..and, the walls, came tumbling down...and, the walls, came tumbling, tumbling....(they don't realise that God is not going to be mocked...and, the book of Daniel speaks to how this will be done, by FORCE, through a false peace, and by spreading a false hope.)

Unless they repent, they shall ALL likewise perish. Building Babylon up again, has been going on for a long time.

We must remain united in insisting that Iran and North Korea abandon their nuclear weapons ambitions, and choose instead the path of peace. New forums that emerge from the Broader Middle East and North Africa Initiative offer the ideal venues to encourage economic, social and democratic reform in the Islamic world. Implementing the Doha Development Agenda and reducing trade barriers will create jobs and reduce poverty in dozens of nations. And by standing with the free peoples of Iraq and Afghanistan, we will continue to bring hope to millions, and democracy to a part of the world where it is sorely lacking.

Now, as I said, the bible states very clearly that those whom build "hope" on anything OTHER than Jesus Christ will be shown that their work and toil is in VAIN.

Christians are going to have to make a stand someday, to either stand with Jesus and HIS kingdom, or to stand with this world and it's..and, when you are a christian, and you speak the truth in love, and, those whom hear you do NOT yet understand, they are offended. That is a fact.

I could post many other articles, and news sources that are saying these same things..Democracy is being spread, in the guise of a false hope, and a false peace, and it WILL be shown for what it is.

This is NOT my opinion. I don't know how anyone whom is a christian could deny what is right in front of their face.

peaceandlove,

janet

[ProjectPeter]

Hi PP,

As I have already stated, I am not against the idea that this end time "beastly system" will not a literal king over it.

In fact, I am moreso persuaded that it will play out just like in times of OLD..whereas in times of old, King Neb was that king, but, there were also many kings over time, that played the same role. Pharoah was one.

I just do not believe it will be a literal stone temple that he will defile, but the new covenant, fulfillment, of a man sitting in the temple of God, the true temple, the assembly of the believers. In some ways, this is already being accomplished by false teachers whom are denying the blood that bought them, by denying the new covenant...but, it is not in it's fullness yet...for as I see it, it will culminate until it is blasphemy against the holy spirit.

peaceandlove,

janet

peaceandlove,

janet

Janet,

Still not seeing how you are reading Daniel, Thess, and Rev. and coming up with it being a system or even false teaching (although the Antichrist will certainly do that). Can a system be tossed into hell? Don't think hell was created for systems eh?

[ProjectPeter]

Hi sis.

I tend to see democracy as one of several vehicles that is being used to help usher in the beast kingdom.

Love you in Christ,
pinky

Are you guys perhaps confusing democracy with capitalism?

[jewel4Christ]

Continuing with some more quotes from Condalisa, and then some more quotes from some news articles, etc.

Our third great task is to spread democracy and freedom throughout the world. I spoke earlier of the grave setbacks to democracy in the first half of the 20th century. The second half of the century saw an advance of democracy that was far more dramatic. In the last quarter of that century, the number of democracies in the world tripled. And in the last six months of this new century alone, we have witnessed the peaceful, democratic transfer of power in Malaysia -- a majority Muslim nation -- and in Indonesia -- the country with the world's largest Muslim population.

I ask those whom are yet in denial about this....do you read the news, or watch the news?

Condalisa:

We have seen men and women wait in line for hours to vote in Afghanistan's first ever free and fair presidential election. We -- and I know you Mr. Chairman -- were heartened by the refusal of the people of Ukraine to accept a flawed election, and their insistence that their democratic will be honored. We have watched as the people of the Palestinian Territories turned out to vote in an orderly and fair election. And soon the people of Iraq will exercise their right to choose their leaders, and set the course of their nation's future. No less than were the last decades of the 20th century, the first decades of this new century can be an era of liberty. And we in America must do everything we can to make it so.

Building a world of hope, prosperity and peace is difficult. As we move forward, America's relations with the world's global powers will be critical. In Russia, we see that the path to democracy is uneven and that its success is not yet assured. Yet recent history shows that we can work closely with Russia on common problems. And as we do so, we will continue to press the case for democracy, and we will continue to make clear that the protection of democracy in Russia is vital to the future of U.S.-Russia relations. In Asia, we have moved beyond the false assumption that it is impossible to have good relations with all of Asia's powers. Our Asian alliances have never been stronger -- and we will use that strength to help secure the peace and prosperity of the region. Japan, South Korea, and Australia are key partners in our efforts to deter common threats and spur economic growth. We are building a candid, cooperative and constructive relationship with China that embraces our common interests but still recognizes our considerable differences about values. The United States is cooperating with India, the world's largest democracy, across a range of economic and security issues. This, even as we embrace Pakistan as a vital ally in the war on terror, and a state in transition toward a more moderate and democratic future. In our own neighborhood, we are cooperating closely with Canada and Mexico, and working to realize the vision of a fully democratic hemisphere, bound by common values and free trade.

From the washington post, and notice the date...

Rice Describes Plans To Spread Democracy

Elections in Egypt Among Priorities

By Glenn Kessler and Robin Wright
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, March 26, 2005; Page A01

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice yesterday set out ambitious goals for the Bush administration's push for greater democracy overseas over the next four years, including pressing for competitive presidential elections this year in Egypt and women's right to vote in Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries.
Rice, in an interview with Washington Post editors and reporters, said she was guided less by a fear that Islamic extremists would replace authoritarian governments than by a "strong certainty that the Middle East was not going to stay stable anyway." Extremism, she said, is rooted in the "absence of other channels for political activity," and so "when you know that the status quo is no longer defensible, then you have to be willing to move in another direction."




As I said, this has been going on for quite some time.


The Lord has put it on my heart to warn my brethren.


Through deceit, the world is going to fall...not by something that is easily seen as "evil".


If anyone disagree's, please do not judge my motives.....


peaceandlove,


janet

[ProjectPeter]

We agree there will be dead bodies, etc.

It is in HOW it is accomplished that we are disagreeing on.

Here is how it will be accomplished according to the word of God, as I see it, and as many other christians, also......as it was in the PAST, so shall it be in the future....reaping and sowing:

2 Chron 36

14Furthermore, all the officials of the priests and the people were very unfaithful following all the abominations of the nations; and they defiled the house of the LORD


(this is the abomination of desolation, as it occurred in the old covenant shadow. In the new covenant REALITY, it will be in the same way, but by the spiritual fulfillment, meaning, it won't be a physical house again, but within the confounds of God's spiritual house...and, men are defiling the temple of God, everyday...through their false teachings, etc..and, through their acts of rebellion against the Lord)

which He had sanctified in Jerusalem. 15 The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent R792 word to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place; 16 but they continually mocked R793 the messengers of God, despised R794 His words and scoffed at His prophets, until R795 the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, until there was no remedy. 17 Therefore R796 He brought up against them the king of the Chaldeans who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion on young man or virgin, old man or infirm; He gave them all into his hand. 18 All R797 the articles of the house of God, great and small, and the treasures of the house of the LORD, and the treasures of the king and of his officers, he brought them all to Babylon. 19 Then they R798 burned the house of God and broke down the wall of Jerusalem, and burned all its fortified buildings with fire and destroyed all its valuable articles. 20 Those who had escaped from the sword he carried R799 away to Babylon;


Same is what is coming today, for God will NOT be mocked, whatsover a man sow, also shall he reap:

Gal 6:
The R260 one who is taught the R261 word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7 Do R262 not be deceived, God R263 is not mocked; for whatever R264 a man sows, this he will also reap. 8 For R265 the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap destruction, R266 but the R267 one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let R268 us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do R269 not grow weary. 10 So then, while R270 F106 we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household R271 of the R272 faith.


When you break the law of love, you will reap the rewards for it, it is that plain, and that simple.

peaceandlove,

janet

Revelation 19:19 ¶And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies, assembled to make war against Him who sat upon the horse, and against His army.
20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat upon the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.


Who does the slaying?

[ProjectPeter]

Hi Pinky,

Yes, I agree...there are many. However, I do see that there is this huge push through "democracy" to spread this beastly system. Consider:

A few clips from Condalisa.....in her recent speach:

The bible is clear that those whom preach "hope" for this world, are deceived..it is doomed to destruction, because it is of a fallen, and sinful state.

I believe it is democracy that is behind the push of man's last chance at this FALSE hope..

Another quote:


They work in vain!

..and, the walls, came tumbling down...and, the walls, came tumbling, tumbling....(they don't realise that God is not going to be mocked...and, the book of Daniel speaks to how this will be done, by FORCE, through a false peace, and by spreading a false hope.)

Unless they repent, they shall ALL likewise perish. Building Babylon up again, has been going on for a long time.

Now, as I said, the bible states very clearly that those whom build "hope" on anything OTHER than Jesus Christ will be shown that their work and toil is in VAIN.

Christians are going to have to make a stand someday, to either stand with Jesus and HIS kingdom, or to stand with this world and it's..and, when you are a christian, and you speak the truth in love, and, those whom hear you do NOT yet understand, they are offended. That is a fact.

I could post many other articles, and news sources that are saying these same things..Democracy is being spread, in the guise of a false hope, and a false peace, and it WILL be shown for what it is.

This is NOT my opinion. I don't know how anyone whom is a christian could deny what is right in front of their face.

peaceandlove,

janet

Yeah... Imagine a nation actually pursuing peace and trying to free oppressed nations and feeding those in need and all that crazy stuff! Dang US! What a pipedream!

It is like you expect them to be Evangelist or something. They aren't. It's the government... not the church.

[jewel4Christ]

Janet,

Still not seeing how you are reading Daniel, Thess, and Rev. and coming up with it being a system or even false teaching (although the Antichrist will certainly do that). Can a system be tossed into hell? Don't think hell was created for systems eh?

That's fine, PP.


It all just boils down to one thing. Will you stand with the world, or with Jesus?

In the end, you only have one choice, and the false teachings have set up the church in such a way, in mho, as to make that seem confusing, but, in reality, it is clear. You cannot serve both...in the end, all of us are going to have to choose. He will make it plain to all, for nothing that is now hidden, will remain hidden, for God's people, the world will NOT understand, however.


peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

Yeah... Imagine a nation actually pursuing peace and trying to free oppressed nations and feeding those in need and all that crazy stuff! Dang US! What a pipedream!

It is like you expect them to be Evangelist or something. They aren't. It's the government... not the church.

It is a pipedream to think that is what they are doing. What they are doing is exalting themselves above the rest of the world, by proclaiming that man can have peace and safety, and a false hope through governments of MEN.

Jesus warned about it, also. What profit a man, if he gain the whole world, yet lose his soul?



Are you aware of the prophecies that speak of this false hope/peace?

Just wondering.

peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

Revelation 19:19 ¶And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies, assembled to make war against Him who sat upon the horse, and against His army.
20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat upon the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.


Who does the slaying?

God does, but not by physical warfare, they will be destroyed by the BRIGHTNESS of His coming...as it states, and unless one is changed, in that instant, like it states, they too would PERISH.

Mere mortals cannot see God and LIVE.

peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

From foreignaffairs.org

Yet the failure of Washington's democracy promotion has not meant the failure of democracy itself. To the contrary, in the last quarter of the twentieth century this form of government enjoyed a remarkable rise. Once confined to a handful of wealthy countries, it became, in a short period of time, the most popular political system in the world. In 1900, only ten countries were democracies; by midcentury, the number had increased to 30, and 25 years later the count remained the same. By 2005, fully 119 of the world's 190 countries had become democracies.

I have to run...talk to ya later....

peaceandlove,

janet

[ProjectPeter]

That's fine, PP.


It all just boils down to one thing. Will you stand with the world, or with Jesus?

In the end, you only have one choice, and the false teachings have set up the church in such a way, in mho, as to make that seem confusing, but, in reality, it is clear. You cannot serve both...in the end, all of us are going to have to choose. He will make it plain to all, for nothing that is now hidden, will remain hidden, for God's people, the world will NOT understand, however.


peaceandlove,

janet

Janet,

What has democracy to do with false teaching in the church? Gotta be honest with you... you are sort of all over the place with this.