Is "democracy" the beast government?

[jewel4Christ]

I've read it a couple of times trying to put this puzzle together. Problem is... you have pieces that just don't fit.

OK, lol...some agree with me, so I guess they did not misplace the pieces and try to fit some in the wrong slots?

peaceandlove,

janet

[fewarechosen]

Most likely because that is not what this thread is about, anyway.

The beast is something other than a system of government, my thread is about how the beast is using this system..not that it is IT.

peaceandlove,

janet

amen to that -- the title of this thread does not say democracy is the beast

[jewel4Christ]

Personally, I think the beast will be a mortal man, ie king, who comes in his own name.

However, he will have a 'system', both religious and political, which he will use to subdue the nations......for a short time.

I can agree with that!

It becomes confusing, because his "system" is called the "beast" also...and, I am becoming clearer on that, too. There is a man referred to as "the beast", as used by the term "he", and I did some pondering on that, and thought about it and prayed, and guess what?

It is like the word of God is using this term "beast" in two ways...

Once for the man whom will be the ultimate authority of it, and the ten kings that also give him their authority.

So, the word is used interchangeably...for example, the bible also says, "the whore rides the beast". Does that mean a literal woman rides a literal man? hmmmmm, nope, but pardon the expression...but, I do believe that is why she is a harlot, she has left Christ and is having .....spiritual fornication with the god of this world.

It means that the woman is the false church, and she is riding the beast system...which is of the world.

peaceandlove,

janet

[weighed]

Is "democracy" the beast government?
I believe it is.
are we still there?

[RoadWarrior]

Yes, our country is pretty much divided on what kind of government we really have - Republic (Republicans) or Democracy (Democrats.)

My personal view on why democracy/Republic has been successful in some countries, is that it is successful when it is welded to Christian principles. As Christian principles erode, so also does the value of democracy.

As democracy is set up in Muslim countries, we do need to be aware that the values of the peoples in those countries are different from ours, and that people vote their values.

My question though, is this. What if you are successful in convincing people that democracy is a tool of the devil? Would you have us to overthrow our government? If so, what kind of government do you recommend for us instead?

The communist style government that is creeping in?

The Islamic style that is being forced on peoples in other countries?

Anarchy, such as is destroying nations in Africa?

Or do you have something else in mind?

I think that what christians really need to be aware of is that God's ways are not man's ways, and His moral ways are not anything like the church upholds today..especially since apostacy began way back in the days of Paul, as he said...one would have to wonder how far off it is by now..eh?


LOVE...for God, and love for neighbor, and the bible says that INCLUDES your enemies..you don't here that in the pulpits today.....

peaceandlove,

janet

But you have not answered my question, Janet. You started this thread to talk about government, the "beast government" - so I think I have asked a fair question.

Your words clearly show that you are against the American style of government, so I ask again. What government do you prefer that we have?

You ask that we not question your motives. OK, I'm avoiding that, but I'm questioning the direction in which you are headed. What is your goal? If the goal is to turn people away from the government under which we live, what is the alternative?

[RoadWarrior]

amen to that -- the title of this thread does not say democracy is the beast

"the beast government" is NOT the same thing as saying "the beast's government"

[ProjectPeter]

I take all things into consideration. The democracy I am speaking of is what is present in the world today, and yes, what the usa is spreading, even out of their own mouths. Did you read the article quotes from one of the heads of this nation? Condalisa

It does not matter how you define democracy, when I use the word, I mean it in the way they use it.

peaceandlove,

janet

Sure it matters how you define democracy. If it is wrongly defined then it is likely not democracy.

And as to Rice's comments.... I don't really care. She's a politician and they talk like politicians. It means nothing in the grand scheme of things. I'm interested in Scripture on this issue because that's all that matters on the matter.

[pinky]

Well certainly the beast will have a "system" just like he is likely to have an airplane and a car. But that is not what is being said thusfar by the OP. It certainly isn't going to be a democratic one though. He'll be much more in control than that... the one that and think of it... He proclaims himself as "God"... not much hint of democracy from such as that and I'd think that should stand the test of simple common sense. If the last beast is a government "system" then I want to know what Scripturae shows us where "systems of government" are cast into the lake of fire? I've yet to see any such Scripture as that but I just missed it along the way. As of yet though... it's not been shown.

Look at what I highlighted.

Here and elsewhere you seem to suggest that you think the OP is saying that the beast is a government system.

Yet a couple of posts before this post of yours you said the following.......

Okay... let me be a bit more firm. This thread is about explaining how the beast government is democracy.

Yes, that is the subject of the OP. I haven't seen anyone claim that the beast himself is a governmental system.

I may have overlooked it though.

[jewel4Christ]

Peter, you give the impression you are harping on about war.
What about all the scriptures I quoted about the anti-Christ?
If you read the OP, it speaks of the Egyptian king. What happened there has every much to do with the war and the Anti-Christ in the end.
They can't be seperated, sorry.

I agree. It was not even me that brought up the issue of war again, in this thread first. It was the person whom kept telling me my view on this was wrong, because Jesus was going to come and fight war with mankind....after the same old verse in romans was taken out of context again.

So, as far as I am concerned if someone brings that discussion up, as a point in this thread, it should be allowed...to be debated, otherwise, why don't we all just go talk to a corner and learn nothing?

peaceandlove,

janet

[jewel4Christ]

Okay... Again though, without getting into just another thing on the war which seems you and others are going out of your way to do.... you are mixing passages about the government (in place by God with nothing telling believers to KEEP OUT) and His Prophets and Shepherds. Again... it seems like just another misuse of Scripture because you are trying to apply passages applicable to the church and make them applicable to Presidents and or Kings of nations.

I have been answering the questions about this when that subject comes up, which it has again in this thread...are you saying I should just ignore those points?

Where is freedom today? I believe that Christ set me free, but men try to subdue it..somehow.



peaceandlove,

janet

[ProjectPeter]

Most likely because that is not what this thread is about, anyway.

The beast is something other than a system of government, my thread is about how the beast is using this system..not that it is IT.

peaceandlove,

janet

Okay... so you meant something different than what you said in the original post?

There are more than one "beast" in the bible, and I believe they all represent a type of "human" government. The last being the government we call "democracy"...

[ProjectPeter]

Speaking for myself, I see the 'democracy', so called, as being a vehicle toward ushering in the kingdom of the beast. There are other 'vehicles' as well, ie, political and religious 'systems'.

However, I do believe that 'democracy' is playing her role too.

Okay... how?

[ProjectPeter]

amen to that -- the title of this thread does not say democracy is the beast

Um... it does in the text.

There are more than one "beast" in the bible, and I believe they all represent a type of "human" government. The last being the government we call "democracy"...

Now... am I just seeing this and no one else is?

[ProjectPeter]

Look at what I highlighted.

Here and elsewhere you seem to suggest that you think the OP is saying that the beast is a government system.

Yet a couple of posts before this post of yours you said the following.......



Yes, that is the subject of the OP. I haven't seen anyone claim that the beast himself is a governmental system.

I may have overlooked it though.

You missed it I suppose... twas in the original post and what we've been talking about since the beginning. Like I said earlier... this seems to be all over the place.

[jewel4Christ]

Hi Pinky,

Hi sis.

I agree with so much of what you are saying.

However, I see this 'democracy' (so called) that is being brought to other nations by force .................. in it's truest philosophical/religious/legalistic sense.......... is talmudism.

I see the talmudism as the "whore" that is riding the beast and it's system...and, many christians are going back to the law, so that is why it all fits together....

(But that is a bit of a long and involved subject that usually causes problems when trying to disscuss it openly.)

Yep, probably the same as this thread..no one wants to have an open enough mind, it seems...because it offends their "view".

I must say something here...there was once a time, when I was on that side of the road.

God called me out of it...(that particular ditch). Does that mean that I want to offend my brethren? No, not at all, I want them to see what I see, it is that simple, and if they cannot agree with it, then they should at least respect it...if they want respect in return.

Also, I think how a person views the REASONS for these wars can make it difficult to find common ground on this subject. For instance, there are still some people who genuinely believe that America's war effort is noble and just.............then there of those of us who see it quite differently.

Love you Janet,
pinky

Agreed.

peaceandlove,

janet