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Thread: Why did Jesus and the apostles not keep the Sabbath according to the law?

  1. #1
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    Why did Jesus and the apostles not keep the Sabbath according to the law?

    According to the following, Jesus and the apostles did not always do according to the laws of the Sabbath, this was a problem for those in charge but not for Jesus. Can you explain why this is so?

    Lk 6:1 And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
    Lk 6:2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?

    Jn 5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.

    Jn 5:10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.

    Jn 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

    Thanks

    Firstfruits

  2. #2
    Hi FF,
    In order to fully follow the traditional teachings on Sabbath law, one would have to memorize volumes worth of rabbinical material and then take scientifically precise care to be successful. In that time, things were not a complicated. But that still did not make it much easier to feel safe about not breaking the Sabbath on accident.

    Jesus did not break the Sabbath according to the actual words of the Bible. Each instance of him being accused of breaking the Sabbath had no Old Testament reference. These were traditions that were held on the same level as scripture by the rabbis. While Jesus did certainly obey many traditions, as all Jews would have in that time, he disreguarded certain traditions that he deemed to be nullifying the written word of God. Jesus came to set people free, not to pat the rabbis on the back. If he were to truly have broken the Sabbath before God, he would have been in sin.

  3. #3
    I would say they did keep the sabbath.

    They didn't keep the traditions of the sabbath that the rabbi's had placed on the Sabbath wich made the sabbath a burden thats why Jesus said "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27), but they did keep that Sabbath.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Firstfruits View Post
    According to the following, Jesus and the apostles did not always do according to the laws of the Sabbath, this was a problem for those in charge but not for Jesus. Can you explain why this is so?

    Lk 6:1 And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
    Lk 6:2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?

    Jn 5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.

    Jn 5:10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.

    Jn 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

    Thanks

    Firstfruits
    they did keep the sabbath... the way it should have been kept...

    the reality is that the Pharisees had such a tradition regarding the sabbath they wouldn't lift a finger to help a dying man at the side of the road because it would have been looked upon as work and it would have violated their so called position with God... Jesus didn't break the sabbath, he didn't redefine the sabbath, he put it back into the original meaning.. the sabbath was created for man, not man for the sabbath... that's why he healed a man on the sabbath... he pointed out to them that David and his men ate the showbread because they were hungry although it was 'unlawful' the reality is that there is a greater law than the law of the sabbath... the law of mercy and compassion which the Pharisees did not have at all
    The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

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    Quote Originally Posted by eliyahu137 View Post
    Hi FF,
    In order to fully follow the traditional teachings on Sabbath law, one would have to memorize volumes worth of rabbinical material and then take scientifically precise care to be successful.
    So following Jesus' teachings from scripture regarding the sabbath aren't sufficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by eliyahu137 View Post
    In that time, things were not a complicated. But that still did not make it much easier to feel safe about not breaking the Sabbath on accident.
    Things are still not that complicated.

    Romans 3:20 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight"

    Matthew 11:29 "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. "

    Galatians 5:14 "all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."



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    Matthew 12:2-4 But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath." But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions, how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?
    Jesus gives an interesting response. Let’s take a look at what he brings up.
    1 Samuel 21
    David Takes Consecrated Bread
    1Then David came to Nob to Ahimelech the priest; and Ahimelech came trembling to meet David and said to him, "Why are you alone and no one with you?" 2David said to Ahimelech the priest, "The king has commissioned me with a matter and has said to me, ' Let no one know anything about the matter on which I am sending you and with which I have commissioned you; and I have directed the young men to a certain place.' 3"Now therefore, what do you have on hand? Give me five loaves of bread, or whatever can be found." 4The priest answered David and said, "There is no ordinary bread on hand, but there is consecrated bread; if only the young men have kept themselves from women." 5David answered the priest and said to him, "Surely women have been kept from us as previously when I set out and the vessels of the young men were holy, though it was an ordinary journey; how much more then today will their vessels be holy?"
    The priest concerned in this story makes an allowance in this situation for a couple of reasons. The disciples would have fallen under the same jurisdiction as Jesus, just as the young men were under the same jurisdiction as David. David convinced the priest that they were on a special mission, just as Jesus was on a special mission on the Sabbath and his disciples with him, with Jesus as their Lord.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
    they did keep the sabbath... the way it should have been kept...

    the reality is that the Pharisees had such a tradition regarding the sabbath they wouldn't lift a finger to help a dying man at the side of the road because it would have been looked upon as work and it would have violated their so called position with God... Jesus didn't break the sabbath, he didn't redefine the sabbath, he put it back into the original meaning.. the sabbath was created for man, not man for the sabbath... that's why he healed a man on the sabbath... he pointed out to them that David and his men ate the showbread because they were hungry although it was 'unlawful' the reality is that there is a greater law than the law of the sabbath... the law of mercy and compassion which the Pharisees did not have at all
    Yes excelent.


    People seem to forget the jewish people when they returned from exile created a bunch of new laws, and embolded and change others. to make sure they did not go into captivity again.

    through the years. people treated these add ons like they were origionals. And became haughty in their pride of keeping them. Anyone who did not was a sinner and doomed.

    Jesus broke these laws on purpose. to show them one his compashion. but two how they were not from God. but mans feeble attempt to make themselves better. when in reality they twisted the laws of god meant for our good, and destroyed them

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliyahu137 View Post
    Hi FF,
    In order to fully follow the traditional teachings on Sabbath law, one would have to memorize volumes worth of rabbinical material and then take scientifically precise care to be successful. In that time, things were not a complicated. But that still did not make it much easier to feel safe about not breaking the Sabbath on accident.

    Jesus did not break the Sabbath according to the actual words of the Bible. Each instance of him being accused of breaking the Sabbath had no Old Testament reference. These were traditions that were held on the same level as scripture by the rabbis. While Jesus did certainly obey many traditions, as all Jews would have in that time, he disregarded certain traditions that he deemed to be nullifying the written word of God. Jesus came to set people free, not to pat the rabbis on the back. If he were to truly have broken the Sabbath before God, he would have been in sin.
    Jesus admitted that he had worked on the Sabbath, so why was it alright for Jesus to work on the Sabbath?

    Jn 5:15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.
    Jn 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
    Jn 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

    The things that Jesus did were the works of God; Jn 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

    Firstfruits

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Firstfruits View Post
    According to the following, Jesus and the apostles did not always do according to the laws of the Sabbath, this was a problem for those in charge but not for Jesus. Can you explain why this is so?

    Lk 6:1 And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
    Lk 6:2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?

    Jn 5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.

    Jn 5:10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.

    Jn 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

    Thanks

    Firstfruits
    ¿According to which law? because it is clear that Jesus is God.

    The point is that Christ as Priest ordered his disciples to do several things on Saturday.

    Here there is no breach of the Law because the high priest was present.

    Blessings.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Firstfruits View Post
    According to the following, Jesus and the apostles did not always do according to the laws of the Sabbath, this was a problem for those in charge but not for Jesus. Can you explain why this is so?

    Lk 6:1 And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
    Lk 6:2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?

    Jn 5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.

    Jn 5:10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.

    Jn 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.

    Thanks

    Firstfruits
    They were compliant with the Sabbath. The Pharasees expanded the prohibitions beyond the original intent.

  11. #11
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    I am going to take a position contrary to everyone else. I believe that Jesus probably did indeed violate the Sabbath with a very specific intent in mind - to do away with the symbols that endorsed the idea that the Jews alone were heirs to the covenant promises. As we know from Romans, this is certainly not the case - Paul argues that "true" Israel is constituted by both Jews and Gentiles.

    So while Torah, and especially the bits like the Sabbath law, had their "time and place", Jesus intentionally breaks Torah to say, like Paul does in his epistles - the "dividing line" between Jew and Gentile - namely the Torah - has been "retired" (although it still lives on, but in a sense that does not entail keeping the Sabbath - but that's another debate).

    So, against what others have written, I will assert that Jesus challenge to the Sabbath was not so much directed against legalism as it was directed against Jewish nationalism - the view that Jews have an "inside track" on salvation.

    Now I am not unaware of at least one text - Exodus 31:16 that seems to establish the Sabbath forever. Here is a rendering of this verse according to the Net Bible:

    The Israelites must keep the Sabbath by observing the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant

    I would submit that we can legitimately read this as "the Sabbath must be kept as long as Israel as a nation exists". I will suggest that for intents and purposes, Israel as a nation "fulfilled its purpose" on the cross. So, yes, I believe that at the cross, God entirely did away with the "chosen-ness" of national Israel. All the Israel-specific promises are, as Paul says, "'yes' in Christ".

    I am also open to another view about the Sabbath and Jesus that I will not go into in this post. But, just to stir the pot, I do not believe that the mainstream interpretation - that Jesus violated a "legalistic" distortion of the Sabbath law - is correct. I think that His statements in Matthew 12 make that clear.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Instrument View Post
    ¿According to which law? because it is clear that Jesus is God.

    The point is that Christ as Priest ordered his disciples to do several things on Saturday.

    Here there is no breach of the Law because the high priest was present.

    Blessings.
    It is written in the law that no work shall be done on the Sabbath yet Jesus admitted to doing the work of the Father on the Sabbath;

    Deut 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

    Jn 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
    Jn 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

    According to the following is Jesus not with us always?

    Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. amen.

    Would that therefore apply to all who are in Christ?

    Firstfruits

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    Quote Originally Posted by drew View Post
    I am going to take a position contrary to everyone else. I believe that Jesus probably did indeed violate the Sabbath with a very specific intent in mind - to do away with the symbols that endorsed the idea that the Jews alone were heirs to the covenant promises. As we know from Romans, this is certainly not the case - Paul argues that "true" Israel is constituted by both Jews and Gentiles.

    So while Torah, and especially the bits like the Sabbath law, had their "time and place", Jesus intentionally breaks Torah to say, like Paul does in his epistles - the "dividing line" between Jew and Gentile - namely the Torah - has been "retired" (although it still lives on, but in a sense that does not entail keeping the Sabbath - but that's another debate).

    So, against what others have written, I will assert that Jesus challenge to the Sabbath was not so much directed against legalism as it was directed against Jewish nationalism - the view that Jews have an "inside track" on salvation.

    Now I am not unaware of at least one text - Exodus 31:16 that seems to establish the Sabbath forever. Here is a rendering of this verse according to the Net Bible:

    The Israelites must keep the Sabbath by observing the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant

    I would submit that we can legitimately read this as "the Sabbath must be kept as long as Israel as a nation exists". I will suggest that for intents and purposes, Israel as a nation "fulfilled its purpose" on the cross. So, yes, I believe that at the cross, God entirely did away with the "chosen-ness" of national Israel. All the Israel-specific promises are, as Paul says, "'yes' in Christ".

    I am also open to another view about the Sabbath and Jesus that I will not go into in this post. But, just to stir the pot, I do not believe that the mainstream interpretation - that Jesus violated a "legalistic" distortion of the Sabbath law - is correct. I think that His statements in Matthew 12 make that clear.
    According to the following, did Jesus work on the Sabbath?

    Deut 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

    Jn 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
    Jn 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

    Firstfruits

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamus414 View Post
    They were compliant with the Sabbath. The Pharasees expanded the prohibitions beyond the original intent.
    Did they change the commandment that no work should be done on the Sabbath, which clearly Jesus did?

    Deut 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

    Firstfruits

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    He kept it the way it was supposed to be kept, ceremonially. When a moral good and a ceremonial ritual butted heads, He always allowed the moral to trump the ceremonial because God desires mercy (moral) over sacrifice (ceremonial).

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